The Official Los Angeles Lakers Thread - KUZ CONTROL

sherrif

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Great teams have always had role players. Championship winning teams have role players. Thanks captain obvious.

The main difference is with the exception of danny green, those who joined the lakers of yore were intelligent, mature vets (mostly) who wanted to come to win. Add to the the leadership of shaq/kobe/ron harper/shaw and phil jackson and it's a recipe for success. This squad is an unknown, a lot of talent but perhaps devoid of the senior leadership in terms of a voice that everyone respects. It should come though.

Rondo is the key. He's matured but a time bomb. If he can recapture his passing and defence first attitude it will go a long way to securing no 17
Um. You get my point that is why the criticism of the recruits has zero merit as they can come in and play roles just like other great teams have. I was talking up their ability to play roles well. Funnily enough some role players play their role better than others who play similar roles on nba teams. just like Vanvleet is a back-up guard who's role is to come in, replace a starter and run the offence. Similarly both Cook and Livingston for the warriors had a similar role when they came in for GS to play in the NBA champs. Vanvleet certainly played the role better and that was my point. They've recruited role players this off season who can do the role well.

Its rubbish that the lakers have brought in vets who are intelligent and team first solid citizens (the underlined seem to be implied from the post, eg that the lakers brought in players that only added to team chemistry) in the shaq and kobe era too. Remember Karl Malone and Garry Payton joining the team. Good in theory, but too old and used to being the stars it didnt work out.By the time their first season was done neither were playing in a way that was all about the team winning. They also bought in Dennis Rodman in 1998ish. Pretty much the opposite of a stabilising presence in the locker room and the Lakers leadership team was unable to stop him from causing dramas for the team. Im also pretty sure you'll find that Shaq and Kobe though great on the court had far from great leadership when they played together as well.Derick Fisher is the guy that's been credited by most in terms of turning around the toxic team chemistry that was around towards the end of Shaq's time there and Fisher was only in the early part of his career at that time.. Funnily enough even Shaq's said he wasnt great at being a leader on a team even when he was winning games. The current Lakers would have that leadership group of the Kobe and Shaq era covered in spades. Davis and Lebron certainly have Shaq and Kobe covered in leadership as they have been leaders leaders their entire career and their backed by players like Bradley, Dudley and Green who have all shown a team first leadership style in the way they've played their careers.

Just by the way Phil Jackson's book the Last Season explains how he always had a tenuous relationship with Kobe and how he thought he sabotaged games in high school during the game so that it would allow him to win it at the end. Remember things however you want but the current Lakers team would have that leadership group that had so much drama their coach wrote a book about it covered in a huge way. LeBron taking over coaching duties at times is a walk in the park compared to the team chemistry Shaq and Kobe led teams had.
 
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QuietB

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Two things need to happen for this Lakers team to succeed.

1/ They need to start playing defence. I’m not sure if the recruiting has addressed this.

2/ They need to increase their 3 ball percentage.

They have huge scoring power. It is interesting that after years of “small ball” dominating the Lakers seem to be going in a completely opposite direction.
 

peternorth

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Um. You get my point that is why the criticism of the recruits has zero merit as they can come in and play roles just like other great teams have. I was talking up their ability to play roles well. Funnily enough some role players play their role better than others who play similar roles on nba teams. just like Vanvleet is a back-up guard who's role is to come in, replace a starter and run the offence. Similarly both Cook and Livingston for the warriors had a similar role when they came in for GS to play in the NBA champs. Vanvleet certainly played the role better and that was my point. They've recruited role players this off season who can do the role well.

Its rubbish that the lakers have brought in vets who are intelligent and team first solid citizens (the underlined seem to be implied from the post, eg that the lakers brought in players that only added to team chemistry) in the shaq and kobe era too. Remember Karl Malone and Garry Payton joining the team. Good in theory, but too old and used to being the stars it didnt work out.By the time their first season was done neither were playing in a way that was all about the team winning.
Not entirely correct. Malone was a true professional. I was living in LA at the time and he meshed well on court and with the team. Sure egos were always an issue, but he knew what it took to win a chip. I still believe if he did not sustain an injury we would've beaten detroit in 7. His defence and floor spacing shooting was second to none.

Although Payton was a simmering influence ready to explode ill give you that.

I believe for every major player in next years title race you could marry up him to a contributing role player of a championship side. My query as a long time lakers fan is that on paper this squad looks good, but this IS the lakers, something always happens that threatens the season.

They also bought in Dennis Rodman in 1998ish. Pretty much the opposite of a stabilizing presence in the locker room and the Lakers leadership team was unable to stop him from causing dramas for the team.
That team was full of talent but not the finished product. Young talent in quick nick and EJ (who was traded for rice). Fox, Harper and Horry just came on board. Rodman was an experiment that did not work. And Jackson was not there yet.
 

Danger in Texas

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I'm not concerned about our leadership. Bron, Davis, Dudley, Bradley, Green and hopefully Rondo are all steady locker room presences that can provide good leadership to the likes of KCP, Kuz, Cook etc

Our defense does concern me a little, but on pure scoring power and roster construction I think we have the potential to be the best offensive team in the league, especially with a fit Boogie and an improved Kuzma. I think we'll be a top five offensive team at the least, and an average defensive team
 

sherrif

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Not entirely correct. Malone was a true professional. I was living in LA at the time and he meshed well on court and with the team. Sure egos were always an issue, but he knew what it took to win a chip. I still believe if he did not sustain an injury we would've beaten detroit in 7. His defence and floor spacing shooting was second to none.

Although Payton was a simmering influence ready to explode ill give you that.

I believe for every major player in next years title race you could marry up him to a contributing role player of a championship side. My query as a long time lakers fan is that on paper this squad looks good, but this IS the lakers, something always happens that threatens the season.



That team was full of talent but not the finished product. Young talent in quick nick and EJ (who was traded for rice). Fox, Harper and Horry just came on board. Rodman was an experiment that did not work. And Jackson was not there yet.
Yep ok. Where doing the internet thing where we slightly misinterpret what the other is posting because well that happens. Instead of having a go Ill just point out that Im referring to an interview with Jackson after he retired (promoting his book) where he said he never had a chance to get control of the Payton, Shaq, BRyant and Malone squad because of the egos at play. From memory that included Malone, who to be fair has a history of not getting on with teammates, as its been said he's one of the nastiest people to have a successful nba career by more than a few, including Mark Eaton who played with him at the jazz.

For what its worth ive got a thepry as to why the Lakers have had so many teams that look good on paper but seem to underachieve a lot over the years. That theory is that the same reason we seem to often attract some players who are recruited to LAL at what seems (at the time of recruitment) to be slightly underprice for their market value is the same reason we dont seem to reach our potential a fair bet in that some players are attracted to the spotlight and attention of playing for LAL. That attention seeking element also means though if things dont go well those same players receive a lot of negative attention and they struggle to play at their best (those type of players) because they cave positive feedback and are receiving the opposite.
 
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sherrif

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I'm not concerned about our leadership. Bron, Davis, Dudley, Bradley, Green and hopefully Rondo are all steady locker room presences that can provide good leadership to the likes of KCP, Kuz, Cook etc

Our defense does concern me a little, but on pure scoring power and roster construction I think we have the potential to be the best offensive team in the league, especially with a fit Boogie and an improved Kuzma. I think we'll be a top five offensive team at the least, and an average defensive team
One thing that could give you more optimism for our defence is that it hasnt been mentioned by many but Anthony Davis brings a lot to the table on the defensive end. His career block average is 2.4 which is 0.4 greater than Embid. Not only does he block and alter shots, but his high rebound numbers mean the opposition will probably be getting less offensive rebounds in 2019/20 compared to last season. Id also say that most of the recruits are very good defenders. Green, Bradley and Dudley are alll good to great on the defensive end. While Cousins copped deserved criticism for his defensive work last year if he can return to full fitness then he should be decent at least when playing defence. In the season he played before he got injured at New Orleans when he was fully fit he was actually getting plenty of press on how his defensive work had improved a heap. He actually has terrific hands in terms of effecting turnovers and when fully mobile his defensive work is far from bad overall.
 

peternorth

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A future HOFer joining the illustrious list of players to wear no 3 in LA

Supremely talented DG


Bug eyes Bigfootys own corey brewer


Trevor Ariza, better known as the man most likely to star in an Usher video



This guy



And J Hart, who went in the opposite direction. Perhaps he'll don 23 in nawlins

 

sherrif

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Two things need to happen for this Lakers team to succeed.

1/ They need to start playing defence. I’m not sure if the recruiting has addressed this.

2/ They need to increase their 3 ball percentage.

They have huge scoring power. It is interesting that after years of “small ball” dominating the Lakers seem to be going in a completely opposite direction.
Ive followed NBA basketball for thirty years and plenty of other sport teams really closely as well. Ive never been more sure that a a team I follow will be contending bar injuries destroying their season then I am with this years Lakers squad. Mostly, because I completely agree that the two issues outlined in the above post are spot on in terms of the needs that had to be addressed. The difference is that I think they have covered those issues and then some with their recruiting.

There are plenty of stats that what we've gained in regard to three point shooting accuracy massively outweighs what we've lost. Here's some of the main points from memory.
Of the main players we lost no one shot the 3 at a high percentage. In fact Rondo a supposed terrible three shooter was better at 35.9% at 1.1 per game then Ingram, Hart or Ball with Stephenson shooting a better % at 3.71.
Next year we have recruit Green coming off a year he was elite from range at 45.3% and Cook 41.3% combing with a player who isnt a recruit but only played 25 games in Curoso at 48%, with decent shooters Bradley(35%) and Daniels (38%). Its fair to say there should be a huge in improvement next season in three point accuracy if the recruiting players repeat last seasons form. If anything the players recruited should all get better looks from range then they did on the teams they played on last season with the double teams required to stop James driving and Davis on the high or low block.

Cousins and Davis also offer a heap more from outside then the players who rotated through power forward and centre for us last year as well. The key to Cousins is getting him back to full fitness obviously, but its important to note then in the last year he and Davis played together they averaged three 3 point baskets a game at around 34% combined.

Defensively the addition of Bradley and Green should make up for the loss of Ball who was terrific defender last season no doubt, Davis is the one that makes us better though as he's a tremendous shot blocker. Dudley's also a good defender and for all the criticism he copped last year for his defence when fully fit Cousins plays solid defence. New Orleans was better defensively with him on the court defensively then they were when he was off by a fair bit in his last season there too.
 
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