The Official San Antonio Spurs thread - Thank you Tony Parker, Bye Bye Kawhi!

DaveyBoy123

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Warning - cynical post coming:

With a 4 game losing streak, and the news that Kawhi might be out for the season, and much more of a concern is that it appears to be Kawhi's decision which might be in conflict with what our own medical staff are suggesting (I'm not concerned about waiting for Kawhi himself to feel his body is ready to return, I am concerned about the conflict of opinions and the heavily rumoured discord between the parties), the devils advocate in me is thinking about this:

How important are the 50-win and playoff streaks? (If, like me, you believe that without Kawhi, and maybe even with, we arent a chance against the Top 2 in the West).
We are 35-25, with 22 games left.
At the moment, 43-45wins will get you the 8th seed in the west.
We could go 8-14, or 10-12 and still miss the 8 (thus getting into the lottery).
We could go around .500 the rest of the way, get a low playoff seed, and then a mid-to-late teen's draft pick.
We could go 15-7 the rest of the way, get 50W, and likely the 3rd seed (and a mid 20's pick) - but its looking less likely.
We could even completely tank, but with our current 35W, and the drop off in standings after Detroit, we could not win another game and likely still end up with only the 12th worst record.

If you're the organisation (Not necessarily Pop or the Players - because they will want to win every single game they can, although Pop has tanked, incredibly succesfully, with us once before - but that was with a lot more than just 1 major injury) what is the best outcome from here?
Personally I think it comes down to Kawhi and what we think he is likely to do in the offseason.
If we think Kawhi is done with the organisation and will reject a contract extension, then I don't think we have a choice but to win as much as we can. The only way to attract potential FA's/trades in a Kawhi-less Spurs is to show that Pop can still win with whatever players he has got, and that getting the right stars will just improve that. It might also mean that our team for the next few years is centred around LMA, and we chase players who complement him.
But if we are confident of Kawhi getting back to being healthy for next season and happily signing that extension, then I don't think dropping our playoff seed, and improvement our draft pick into the teens, is a bad outcome, because I don't think a worse record on a Kawhi-less team is going to put off any potential top level FA's if they think they will be joining a healthy Kawhi next year.
Hadn't thought of all that... & still a little unsure tbh... I think the 50 win streak is blurring my judgement too much, since continuing that is my 1st reaction. Defeating the Cavs on the road yesterday suggests it's still possible, although 14-7 with many tricky fixtures still remaining will be a tough ask.

The latest on Kawhi returning this season again seems contradictory if you are to believe Pop word for word. I don't see an issue with getting him back in 3 weeks time, playing 10 or so games and then hopefully having him build up through the playoffs if we are successful in progressing.
 

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DaveyBoy123

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Hadn't thought of all that... & still a little unsure tbh... I think the 50 win streak is blurring my judgement too much, since continuing that is my 1st reaction.
Fair to state that the 50 win streak is no longer blurring my judgement!
 

didaksrightfoot

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Fair to state that the 50 win streak is no longer blurring my judgement!
At least we won today, and at least Kawhi looks likely to be back soon (hopefully), but i will say that the Spurs sitting outside the 8 this late in the season is a very unusual feeling in my almost-30 years of following the team.

Still a chance that things click if Kawhi is healthy and gets 5-10 games to get into form before the playoffs (and to at least get us into them), but its getting very, very tight for that.
 

DaveyBoy123

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At least we won today, and at least Kawhi looks likely to be back soon (hopefully), but i will say that the Spurs sitting outside the 8 this late in the season is a very unusual feeling in my almost-30 years of following the team.

Still a chance that things click if Kawhi is healthy and gets 5-10 games to get into form before the playoffs (and to at least get us into them), but its getting very, very tight for that.
No point finishing 7th or 8th though... And yet, 6th is as good as 3rd, 4th or 5th! I just can't see it happening with the schedule remaining UNLESS a couple of the other teams do a 180 and go on losing streaks. The Timberwolves game on Sunday will tell us a lot, since a loss to them means falling 2 games back from 5th.

And yes, it is an unusual feeling... There's always something else to fall back on though with the Spurs. Remember that graphic you posted about the number of total days with a losing record in the past 20 years!? Well, just 2 wins required! :)
 

Mr Cannons

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Tomorrow is a big day, Okc v raptors, Nop v Celtics, timberwolves v Houston and Portland v clippers hopefully these games fall our way and we can take care of a injury depleted golden state.
 

UnitedWarrior93

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I think we do, but just!!

If Kawhi doesn’t come back then we might as well not make it as we will get rolled in 7 games against whoever we play.

The inevitable change that was always going to happen is happening, how long has Pop got left in him? Ginobili peobably retires, Parker a shadow of himself and getting on and Kawhi looking to piss off elsehwere.
 

bixente

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Manu is still producing though, the man's a freak. 17 points, 3 rebounds and an assist in only 19 minutes of action. Parker looks finished but Manu is still putting up solid numbers.
 

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didaksrightfoot

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Am

Am I right in saying if we beat Sacramento then we make it regardless if we lose to the pelicans or not?
Because we have the tie breaker over Minnesota?
You're right - we only need to win 1 of those games, (which I hadnt realised until your post) but with the way we have played Im not ready to garauntee anything until its confirmed.
 

UnitedWarrior93

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Very sad news, gonna go down 4-0 against the GSW but proud of the team and LMA.

Pissed with Kawhi though, coming across as a brat, almost certain to be at the Lakers next season.
 

didaksrightfoot

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What trade assets do the lakers have that could possibly land Kawhi ?
It depends what direction the club wants to take. There's also not a rush to do it just yet, he still has 2 years on his current, and if it really is a situation about his uncle being about the $$$- then the might be hoping to do the supermax sign-and-trade. (which gives the club a bit more leverage).

My preference would be to find a way to get a combination of guy/s ready to perform now, as well as young piece/s +/- draft picks, to try and make something of this current roster.
If we can get a combination of Hayward (if healthy) and one of Tatum/Brown and draft pick/s - that might be a way to cover all bases.

If we're not able to get an established star, then stocking up on young pieces and speeding up a rebuild might be the way to go: and the Lakers have Kuzma, Ingram, Ball and Randle. (Steven A Smith suggested Ball and Ingram/Randle, which i think sells the Spurs very short, but if we could get 3 of those guys then thats pretty good value IMO - probably on par with 3 top 5 picks, ready to go, although none at the superstar level).
(If the Lakers get Kawhi and Lebron - then I reckon everybody else becomes tradeable).
---

But all of this is only relevant if the club isn't able to sort out what is going on, and Kawhi clearly states he wants to leave. If its purely about him/uncle wanting to have the Supermax signed before hitting the court - then you would pay that (once you've seen that he's willing to come back and train/play with the guys).
---

Also- all of this clearly takes a back seat to supporting Pop right now. That is clubs number 1 priority, and I'm sure everything else will be cleared up in due course.
 

MadTigerFan

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Where does the team go from here?

Wouldn't be totally against Parker, Manu and Gasol all leaving but it's not easy to replace players these days with the inflated free agency salaries.

If Kawhi gets traded to Boston for Tatum and Brown I won't cry, any other team though and I might.
 

didaksrightfoot

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Where does the team go from here?

Wouldn't be totally against Parker, Manu and Gasol all leaving but it's not easy to replace players these days with the inflated free agency salaries.

If Kawhi gets traded to Boston for Tatum and Brown I won't cry, any other team though and I might.
Pau still has 2years at $16m/yr left on his contract (I don't remember seeing anywhere about that last year being an option or anything) - so he's not retiring. I think he still has value in the rotation, just not at that cost (unless the last year is an option - in which case it's a decent expiring contract).

Tony and Manu still have value as role players - if they want to stay we keep them. The decision is their's to make.
Manu I would guess is 70/30 to retire. If he stays it will be at the Vet's minimum and he's good value at that.
Tony is the interesting one. I think he's stated that he will keep playing, and had made a comment about it being "hopefully" in San Antonio. Getting his $15m off the books will be useful for cap-space, and if I was the club I would offer something like the 3-4m/year for the next couple of years. That might be a bit of a hard sell, and if another team offers him 6-7m (which I don't know if they would) then I don't think the club would try to match it - it would be up to him if he wants to stay on a paycut. (Is definitely not worth anything over 5m).

The two big ??'s are Kawhi and Pop.
I hope something is worked out, and would love him to stay - and I think the club will do everything they can for that to happen. But I also hope the club is wise and pragmatic (which generally I would have faith in - but still see no reason for Pau's extension last year) and if the right offer comes along, they should take it, but if it's not the right offer we have the confidence to stick to our guns and be patient and not sell him on the cheap.
His value on the market though is really hard to gauge. The guy should be a top 3-5 player - but doubt he's rated like that currently. I think the club would be hoping for a ready made top 10player (unlikely) or a combination of young pieces/draft picks. Problem is the trades I've seen in the media all vary greatly in their valuations - and most undersell him. (eg. a Kawhi-Ingram straight swap - what a load of shit).

I also think Pop is gonna need a break right now. Let him get away from everything basketball related and spend time with his family and friends. I wouldn't be surprised if he then decides to call it time, and I'm sure he's been talking with RC and Holt about plans for whenever that happens.
I think we could do a lot worse than promoting Messina, trading Kawhi for Tatum&Brown or 2 of Ball/Kuzma/Ingram (though I'd add a pick to each of those trades) and just rebuilding from scratch with young backcourt/wing pieces around LMA.
 

Dags21

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Just thinking out loud, but to me it looks like kahwi’s problems are with TP and Ginobili. I’d say they’ve been pushing him to come back and he wasn’t ready. Sounds petty, but this is the nba
If those two retire, I can see kahwi coming back to th team..


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didaksrightfoot

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it may not be the perfect fit for us and Kawhi may not want to be cold, but is he a straight swap for KAT? :D
Would take it in a heartbeat - but unless I've missed something i doubt he's on the market and i doubt Kawhi would accept a move to Minnesota.

But yeah the ideal would to get a player like that who is young and already a superstar.
We could figure out other roster moves afterwards. (And I think LMA-KAT could actually work. Both don't need to be stuck in the post... or you could trade LMA who would be at a reasonable value again now)
 

DaveyBoy123

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Would take it in a heartbeat - but unless I've missed something i doubt he's on the market and i doubt Kawhi would accept a move to Minnesota.

But yeah the ideal would to get a player like that who is young and already a superstar.
We could figure out other roster moves afterwards. (And I think LMA-KAT could actually work. Both don't need to be stuck in the post... or you could trade LMA who would be at a reasonable value again now)
There's talk he wants out of Minnesota... I think he's not liking the way he's being used by Thibs.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/basket...t/news-story/1e1eddfc61f968d762cc12dc9565bf44
 

didaksrightfoot

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Well apparently Kawhi's told the Spurs he wants out and has put LA as his preferred destination.

This sucks - but at least we finally know and might start to see some movement
 
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