The worst thing about Embiid not playing in the rising stars game is that I don't get to see him dunk on Okafor.
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The Official Week 17 'I have no internet so this is the best you get' Thread
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Kyrie has had like 6 years in the league. His age is irrelevant. Isaiah is from the same draft and has spent half his career on teams that didn't rate him, hardly ideal for growth.
Kyrie wasn't a 4 year college player that comes into the league and develops at 24-25 as he gets accustomed to the NBA game. He's had plenty of time to grow as a player, yet he literally is the exact same player he was in his rookie year. Good shot maker and clutch scorer. That's it. Nothing about that screams MVP candidate, nor someone who will be a total beast once LeBron leaves. He is not being starved of the ball nor shots. He might score some more points without LeBron, but that's hardly turning him into an MVP candidate. Unlike he would be anywhere near efficient enough purely to be in an MVP discussion on the back of his scoring like Curry did last year. He doesn't get to the line much, and he's unlikely to shoot 50% from the field.
Dwyane Wade in particular was in a far different situation. He was an ageing player when LeBron joined him and more than happy to defer. Kyrie had the ball a heck of a lot in his early years, and yet his usage stats are still the same even with LeBron. This isn't a case of Kyrie playing next to an ageing Kobe who wouldn't pass him the ball. LeBron is the perfect player for Kyrie to play next, this notion that he's hurting Kyrie's stats simply isn't true. If anything Kyrie should be more efficient with the lessened defensive attention, but he really hasn't made strides there at all since LeBron came aboard.
So yeah, of course I'm going to be sceptical that a guy who hasn't improved in years is suddenly going to do so when he no longer plays next to the perfect teammate.
I use advanced stats like true shooting etc to add to an argument. I don't use one stat like you did to totally s**t on a player, and ignore all the good in him. He literally isn't the worst defender at all. You're basing that off one stat. It isn't that simple to judge players.
- May 23, 2012
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If following the
New Orleans Pelicans
... has taught me anything, it's that brand dilution should be avoided like the plague.
However in the interests of compromise:
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stewie griffen
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I think stewie's referring to what I said earlier, which was that I personally have no sympathy for players who continually con the refs. Watching Marcus jump up and down with mouth agape in disbelief was all kinds of irony.
It's not a Bulls or Celtics thing, just a player twist.
stewie griffen
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stewie griffen
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That was the information given to meHmmm, well you definitely have the best avatar
I don't care about any of that. I've said it all year. The reffing has always been bad but it's getting worse. I hate the whole reputation thing.
Not sure how Smart flopping would have any impact on that call anyway. It wasn't like Butler was backing him down in the post and he just dived to the ground. He was contesting a shot. Smart defends like that in every game and doesn't get called for a lot of fouls, so of course I'm going to be livid when they call that a foul, deciding the game. Not only that, but waiting to see how the shot looked before making the call.
Just garbage.
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First line has me stumped.. is this really what I'm arguing with. Age is not relevant?! Have a look at recent players like Derozan, Wall, Curry, Lowry, Lillard, Isaiah etc improved significantly as they got older. Even Lebron really peaked at 28 and he was right out of college. I don't get how you can really argue that tbh
I just don't agree with pretty much everything you've said, Kyrie has a lower usuage rate than majority of the top line players last time I checked a few weeks ago. If you don't wanna ignore last year where he missed half the season and came back rusty all power to you. In my opinion he has had one 'down' season and that was the season before Lebron returned.
I love how you say I ignore the good things about Isaiah lol I simply don't bring them up, I don't see the need to given that's the way you go about it. I've acknowledged Isaiah a lot this season, I was a huge fan of him in sac. Maybe you choose not to read it? I've seen Stewie give lots of complietments to Isaiah too which makes me think you just don't read it. He went from underrated to overrated very quickly though.
I'm not basing anything off one stat, he isn't top 50 in win shares, he isn't top 50 in real plus minus which includes offense, his team isn't even significantly worse off with him on the bench... You just highlight his offense, yes we get it he is incredibly good offensively but basketball has two sides of the court. You can bring up James harden or kyries defense as some sort of excuse but the statistics that include both have them rated higher.
I'm just curious what do you think Boston is gonna do with the nets pick this year?
Look2Me4Guidance
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Chuck some of this salt on my chips would you
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Pricey's mum giving insider info?
I agree that inconsistent reffing is a problem. A foul is a foul (or isn't), it shouldn't matter who the player is or what time is on the clock. And you know my thoughts about corrupt reffing in the Stern era.
I'm just saying that it's hard to feel sympathy for a guy who was responsible for getting Deron Williams tossed just earlier this week. The Mavs are fighting for a playoff spot, yet Smart's playacting resulted in a double technical and an ejection - that's two free points and a man down. It's only the fact that this happened in the 2nd quarter and not the final minute that it's gone virtually unnoticed by all and sundry.
Personally, I'd probably prefer the refs to not call ticky tack fouls, and if they're going to call them then I'd prefer they call them consistently. But that's me.
Look2Me4Guidance
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Marcus Smart should be suspended for every foul from now on. It's just getting ridiculous
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Booker is a sharpshooter who can't shoot
stewie griffen
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Gonna be an interesting run home.
Bostons schedule after All Star
@Toronto
@Detroit
vs.Atlanta
vs.Cleveland
@LAL
at Suns
@LAC
at Warriors
@Denver
Bostons schedule after All Star
@Toronto
@Detroit
vs.Atlanta
vs.Cleveland
@LAL
at Suns
@LAC
at Warriors
@Denver
Last edited:
Look2Me4Guidance
Destination Club Supporter
Geez he looks good doing it though
Derozan and Lowry improved because they finally had a chance to show their worth. Wall, Curry and Thomas have all grown year by year, added something to their game and are now reaping the benefits. Lillard is a really stupid player to bring into the debate because he makes it look worse for Kyrie. Similar usage to Kyrie, yet has constantly gotten better since year one.
Age is relevant for player growth yes. But it's not relevant in the case of Irving because he has been in the league 6 years and barely improved. It has nothing to do with age, it's more than likely he just is who he is. He was given the chance to put up numbers from day one, did so but since then hasn't gotten any better.
Plenty of people love comparing him to Curry, and love to cite how Curry became MVP at 26 after being in the league a fair while. Curry had his career significantly derailed by injury, yet when watching him you could still see there was growth in his game. At age 24/25 he took a significant step as a player, and was clearly a different talent to the rookie Curry. Where are the signs that Kyrie is any better than his rookie self? The stats don't show it, and the eye test certainly doesn't.
Kyrie has a similar usage rate to Curry, Leonard, Lillard and Giannis. Yes, he doesn't get it as much as Harden or Westbrook, but those two are unique cases this season. Harden two seasons ago put up far superior numbers to Irving, with similar usage. Again, Lebron is not depriving him of the ball. Kyrie just doesn't do enough offensively to ever look like being a star. You need to draw fouls and be able to be a playmaker to be an offensive superstar in this league, two things Irving doesn't do well, and is ever unlikely to do well. I never mentioned down seasons or anything like that either. Simply said Irving's stats have always remained similar. I think it's pretty far fetched to blame it on one knee issue.
You can bag Isaiah Thomas all you like for his defence. He's still brilliant offensively and does a lot for the Celtics to win. Irving on the other ahnd isn't on his level offensively, and defensively he really isn't all that better despite having the typical height for a point guard.
Look2Me4Guidance
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I wonder what the title of next week's thread will be?
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Geez talk about cutting up rough over one loss amongst 82 games against a "mess" of a team. Don't want to trade for Butler any more because of it, attack the Bulls fans and their "mess" of a franchise, want all refs sacked... Do the Celtics have some sort of affiliation with Hawthorn by any chance?
It's not about feeling sympathy. It's about people defending the refs in this situation, when they know the call was soft and quite frankly utter BS.
That's what I've been saying all along. If you want to call that foul on Smart fine, but then ref like that every game. Don't go from calling that sort of thing to letting players wrestle off the ball around screens.
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It's his chiseled jaw line and cheekbones
stewie griffen
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You wanna complain about a call costing you the game (or taking it to OT)?
peternorth
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kenny smiths annual all star party attended by no one
stewie griffen
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The call was soft.
But calling it soft implies contact (which there was), and therefore by definition its not BS
I disagree with you (and i might point out i disagreed with the Wade phantom call for us previously), but obviously both of us are seeing it through red and green glasses.
I think we all agree that nba officiating can be pretty bog average at times, and there's a list of blown calls or phantom calls the length of the flat Earth, and yes consistency is an issue. But at the end of the day its 3 guys trying their best, making judgement calls and split second decisions, much like AFL. Any missed or blown calls are replayed endlessly, whilst we forget about every other call throughout the game, and the 97% of calls that they got right.
It's easy for us as armchair supporters to sit here and say 'I could make that call' but the reality is its a bloody hard job
Jah putting more effort in defensively in this game than he does in games that actually count.
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