The old farts got Howard back- Roy Morgan poll

GuruJane

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#26
funkyfreo said:
What is a pseud exactly?
A pseudo leftist is a person who thinks they are left, when in fact they are reactionary. A pseudo leftist can be identified easily when they take up a political position identical to that of the hard reactonary right (eg Pat Buchanan in the USA) ... for example, opposing US intervention to overthrow the fascist regime of the Baathists in Iraq.

Ultra pseudo leftists, like Dan Warna for instance, claim that they are on the left while actually barracking for FASCISTS like the Saddamists and jihadists currently beheading all and sundry in Iraq to restore the fascist Sunni regime or an equally fascist/extremeist Islamic regime on the people of Iraq.

It is typical of ultra pseuds that they do this while denying that they are supporting fascists. They are quite delicious, but definitely a passing generation given the last election results.

Dunno about you funkyfreo, do you fall into either of these categories?
 

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GuruJane

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#27
butterflykiss said:
Labor is destroyed. Latham revealed himself to be cynically pursuing pseud popularism on the day he said he'd bring the troops back from Iraq before Christmas ... and that was the end of that...the forests policy was nothing more than Latham and Faulkner continuation pandering to the pseud agenda. That's why I voted informal, that's why the base Labor vote fell into Howard's arms.

Thank you pseuds, one and all. Enjoy the next 20 years.

Depressingly you are most likely right about Federal Labor but at least we still have State labor Governments in place and that wont change overnight.


And so we will for the forseeable future, unless any of these State Labor govts start flogging pseud agendas.
 

GuruJane

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#28
Pessimistic said:
Luckily Howard realises he has to stay slightly to the left of Keating to stay in power. His need to be in power is stronger than his right wing ideals
Perspicacious comment, Pess. Howard understands the value of consensus as a means of staying in power unlike the expedient, opportunistic, principle-less Keating.
 

MightyFighting

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#30
GuruJane said:
A pseudo leftist is a person who thinks they are left, when in fact they are reactionary. A pseudo leftist can be identified easily when they take up a political position identical to that of the hard reactonary right (eg Pat Buchanan in the USA) ... for example, opposing US intervention to overthrow the fascist regime of the Baathists in Iraq.

Ultra pseudo leftists, like Dan Warna for instance, claim that they are on the left while actually barracking for FASCISTS like the Saddamists and jihadists currently beheading all and sundry in Iraq to restore the fascist Sunni regime or an equally fascist/extremeist Islamic regime on the people of Iraq.

It is typical of ultra pseuds that they do this while denying that they are supporting fascists. They are quite delicious, but definitely a passing generation given the last election results.

Dunno about you funkyfreo, do you fall into either of these categories?
Perhaps a "pseud" is someone who thinks they're supporting freedom, while in fact they're supporting the arbitrary use of war to capture the resources of other nations (for the purpose of enriching a few multinational businesses) led by a semi-literate creationist who thinks god speaks to him directly.
 

GuruJane

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#31
Just getting back to the original topic, Shaun Carney is right on the money in
todays Age.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/29/1099028206529.html

An excerpt:

“Meanwhile, Howard has secured unfettered control of the Senate. Presumably, it will take a bit longer before the ramifications of this spectacular achievement are fully understood.

What it seems to mean is this: Australia has confirmed that it has set sail on a new political course, one where controversies over such things as propriety, ethics and honesty are likely to be dismissed - if they occur at all - as boutique sideshows, of little concern to the great mass of voters.

There seems to be no other way to interpret the October 9 election result. A great deal of the political debate since 2001 was devoted to the Prime Minister's handling of the children overboard incident, the threat of terrorism and, most important of all, the engagement in Iraq.

The reason for going to war was to wrest from the hands of Saddam Hussein the weapons of mass destruction that we were assured he would eventually deploy against the rest of the world. There were no weapons of mass destruction. This is a matter of great moment in America and Britain. It did not figure in our election campaign.

This says something profound about Australia's contemporary political culture.

At the heart of these issues that in many ways dominated the public discourse - or at least the media's portrayal of it - during the Howard Government's third term was the question of accountability. How honest do we expect a prime minister to be? Is it right to expect a prime minister to accept the ultimate responsibility for his government's actions and the things that he says?

The verdict of a substantial majority of the Australian people appears to be that what we might call these issues of process are not very important at all.

The "punishment" that voters meted out to Howard for taking the nation to war on false pretences was to increase the Coalition's vote by more than 2 per cent and give him unfettered control of both houses of Parliament.”


In other words, Labor was captured by the pseud anti-war agenda and is now consigned to irrelevancy.
 

demon_dave

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#32
listen ,what is it with you and this obsession with pseud?? pseud this pseud those? what the? The reason the rodent got voted in again is because he has old school WHITE ideals, he is a racist, plebs in this country are racist to the core, they hate minorities, they like their neighborhoods all WHITE and shiny with picket fences. They will never get this but if they have a hatefilled rodent in power who says he will do this for them and they can go back to eating meat and two veg like it was in the old days they will be sucked in. I count you with in with these nuf nufs pseud
 

GuruJane

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#33
demon_dave said:
listen ,what is it with you and this obsession with pseud?? pseud this pseud those? what the? The reason the rodent got voted in again is because he has old school WHITE ideals, he is a racist, plebs in this country are racist to the core, they hate minorities, they like their neighborhoods all WHITE and shiny with picket fences. They will never get this but if they have a hatefilled rodent in power who says he will do this for them and they can go back to eating meat and two veg like it was in the old days they will be sucked in. I count you with in with these nuf nufs pseud
Okay folks, pretty much tells you why Howard has control of the senate and the Labor Party is finished.

With friends like these ...
 

kirky

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#34
GuruJane said:
In other words, Labor was captured by the pseud anti-war agenda and is now consigned to irrelevancy.
What everyone doesn't understand or seems to lack is a knowledge of political history. That is things go round and round. Like in the late 80's, we all thought the Liberals were never going to get back into power but they have. This is just another political cycle and times will change. Labor will be re-elected, who knows it may be 3 or 6 years but one thing is for certain, they will be elected at some point in the future.

This non-sense that Labor is irrelevant. How does that explain that they are in power in every state and territory? And are likely to remain so in the short term. All you conservatives, please explain.

No, the simple reason for JWH getting back in - the economy stupid - low inflation, low unemployment, low interest rates. People normally don't vote out governments when things are going well. The test and this is the key, if we have a recession, just see what happens then......
 

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#35
I seem to recall that the key problem the liberals faced in the eighties and early nineties was good leadership (peacock vs howard). Today, the labor party appear to be divided over which road to take, politically and ideologically speaking.

Did anyone see the newspoll today? The Coalition got 43% of the blue collar workers votes, the SAME as the ALP. If that isn't invasion of heartland, I don't know what is.
 

evo

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#36
kirky said:
What everyone doesn't understand or seems to lack is a knowledge of political history. That is things go round and round. Like in the late 80's, we all thought the Liberals were never going to get back into power but they have. This is just another political cycle and times will change. Labor will be re-elected, who knows it may be 3 or 6 years but one thing is for certain, they will be elected at some point in the future.

This non-sense that Labor is irrelevant. How does that explain that they are in power in every state and territory? And are likely to remain so in the short term. All you conservatives, please explain.

No, the simple reason for JWH getting back in - the economy stupid - low inflation, low unemployment, low interest rates. People normally don't vote out governments when things are going well. The test and this is the key, if we have a recession, just see what happens then......
Spot on kirky.Most Australians are willing to overlook a few unpalatable decisions by a government if their life is basically running pretty smoothly. I don't agree that the Liberal parties re-election is any sort of endorsement of the govermnents Iraqi policies. They ran a successful camapign based around people's fear of rising interest rates and IMO rightly claiming they were/would be the more competent economic managers.That is all.
 

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coasting

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#37
DaveW said:
Pessimistic - on what issues would Howard be to the left of Keating?
That baby bonus or family bonus or whatever that they paid 2 and 3 times over. Then people wanted to pay it back because they knew they were ripping off the Australian people but John Howard said people didn't have to pay it back. They were just giving away money for free, it was bordering on communism. That would probably have to go down as the most leftist political act in Australian history.
 

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#38
DaveW said:
Pessimistic - on what issues would Howard be to the left of Keating?
Keating floated the Aussie dollar and privatised the Commonwealth bank amongst many other things.He embraced so many economically right leaning ideals, he should've been the leader of the Liberal party.

If he had've been the leader of the the ALP during the recent election I probably would've voted for them for the 1st time in my life.
 

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#39
coasting:

Sounds more like vote-buying nonsense than genuine left-wing philosophy.

evo:

My understanding was that Howard wanted to float the dollar but Fraser didn't. And it's not as if Howard doesn't have a track record for privatisation either.
 

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#40
fraser didn't want to do anything, just sit on his arse and feel good about himself.......power without glory. fraser is the worst type of pollie, only in it for the power and to play political games.

he is responsible for destroying john gorton resulting in macmahon as prime minister, one of the most pathetic ever. this led to gough whitlam winning in 72 and our economy and country going down the tubes. fraser is directly responsible for this because of his egotistical behaviour and when he became prime minister he did nothing to fix up the whitlam mess.

that's why fraser is remembered as our worst ever prime minister even worse than whitlam, he had complete control of the senate to pass economic and social reforms but we had to wait until hawke/keating and howard for this.
 
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Moderator #41
Wicked Lester said:
They start out idealistic and eager for change, then they get a mortgage and children and start to crave stability and finally they get older and despise to much change too quickly. With the porportion of the population over 65 set to double by 2050, everyone should condition themselves to conservatism - be it the Liberal or Labor version thereof.
A schooling system that equips them only to get a job and a mortgage is the lynchpin here.

People are trained to be scared of failing examinations, losing their job, losing their house, losing their money. Is it any wonder most people get more and more conservative? Seeking a better world is risky. Risk and instability are to be feared if you have tethered yourself to a house and other liabilities (cars and holidays mostly) with only a wage to support the burden.

Wage-slaves spending on credit support the short term, bigger interests so there is no will to improve the financial skills, risk management and confidence of people in general. Conservatism follows.
 
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Moderator #42
evo said:
Spot on kirky.Most Australians are willing to overlook a few unpalatable decisions by a government if their life is basically running pretty smoothly.
People anywhere will accept extraordinary things if it gets them a cheaper DVD player and a more valuable house.
 

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#43
So what is the difference between vilification based upon race and vilification based upon age?

ps Or is it that the wiser and more experienced prevailed over the brainwashed :eek:
 

afc9798

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#45
GuruJane said:
Appleyard - have you got a DVD player and a house? If not, do you want them?
Janet, I mean Jane, what people have or do not have is irrelevant. The point being made is that people will forego a social conscience in order to feather their nests, particularly when society shuns those who do not "succeed". It'll be interesting to see how people feel when the first rate rise comes, after all the Coalition so desperately went about convincing people that they were in control of the rates. Goes around, comes around, just another cycle of political evolution. This current one is called the Selfish Age.
 

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#46
butterflykiss said:
As I suspected the old people that Howard scared out of their wits for 4 years Got him back in .

Post-Election Analysis – Retirees Won the Day for the L-NP
Finding No. 3801 - By Gary Morgan and Michele Levine: October 29, 2004


POST-ELECTION ANALYSIS —

RETIREES WON THE DAY FOR THE L-NP

A special Morgan Poll on election weekend and the following weekend showed the L-NP (52.5%) ahead of the ALP (47.5%) on a two-party preferred basis. While the vote was similar among men (L-NP 52.5% cf ALP 47.5%) and women (L-NP 52% cf ALP 48%), analysis by age showed the ALP was ahead among those under 25 (ALP 53% cf L-NP 47%). The L-NP had a high 62% of the over 65 vote (ALP 38%).

Primary voting intention showed 46.5% of electors said they would or had voted for the L-NP, 37.5% for the ALP and 16% for minor parties — including 7.5% Greens, 1.5% Australian Democrats, 1.5% One Nation and 5.5% Family First, Minor Parties and Independent Candidates.
The table below shows these findings are very close to the actual election results as of the latest counting.1

Table 1. Latest Federal Election Result and the latest Morgan Poll

First Preference Results from the Australian Electoral Commission
Oct 7/8

Telephone

Morgan Poll

Oct 28, 2004 Oct 9/10 & 16/17, 2004
Sample Size (1,845)
% %
L-NP 46.72 (5.90) 46.5 (5)
ALP 37.63 37.5
Aust Dem 1.24
1.5

Aust Dem 7.18
7.5

One Nation 1.20
1.5

Ind/Other 6.03*
5.5*

Total 100 100

Two-Party Preferred Vote
L-NP 52.59 52.5
ALP 47.41 47.5
Total 100 100


.
I wouldn't say all of the old farts got him back. I know that a lot of young ppl voted for him and I was one of them.
 
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