The old suburban VFL/AFL grounds

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Silent Alarm said:
There was always a lot of ad hoc s**t going around with the AFL and there still is. They could change anything in a fixture and it was their discretion. Throw in clubs having no money, Waverley being owned by the VFL, and then in the late 90s and 2000s Etihad being built and you have a 20-30 year period where clubs have no idea when the last game at a ground will be.

In retrospect Carlton were lucky to have a bonafide farewell and to treat it as such; games kept dwindling down and then they got the one-off in 2005. At the same time there was the rhetoric of it being used heaps in 2006 during the Commonwealth Games so who knows. If Etihad wasn't so new and cared for by the AFL I wonder if that 2006 period would have revitalised Optus enough to keep games there now.
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Agreed. I was lucky I lived in Parkville at the time, and bought myself a ticket and went along. Still a special experience. I wish I could have been around in Melbourne in a previous era to see more matches at suburban grounds.
 
brucetiki said:
I think Junction oval will be the backup ground for the Victorians, so they don't have to play home games interstate if the MCG is unavailable.
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Could be wrong but thought the plan was Junction Oval will host the Sheffield Shield games here and do not even get to play on MCG in not too distant future.
Someone who been following it in full detail hopefully confirms either way soon.
 

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footyfan78 said:
Could be wrong but thought the plan was Junction Oval will host the Sheffield Shield games here and do not even get to play on MCG in not too distant future.
Someone who been following it in full detail hopefully confirms either way soon.
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This was my thought. All started when the AFL had to alter the start of the season based on when cricket was finishing up.

St Kilda really wanted to have their home base at Junction Oval but I think the idea was the AFL 'gave' that ground to cricket in exchange for priority use at the MCG.
 
I often take my son for a kick at Moorabbin (there isn't much of it left these days). The thing he says is its amazing that you have a league ground in the middle of houses! And he is right. I remember going to the likes of Windy Hill, Moorabbin, Victoria Park and walking through the suburban streets to get to the grounds....doesn't happen now. People would let you park on their front lawns for a fee!

And there was also that feeling of excitement as you walked through the turnstiles and walked up the stairs or the ramp and viewed the ground for the first time. Nothing like it these days. Particularly when you went to a ground for the first time and got to see the side of the ground that wasn't shown on the TV- the grandstand at Arden Street, the brick stand at the Lakeside Oval, the 3 grandstands at Windy Hill, the grandstands at the Junction Oval and Western Oval, the Ryder Stand at Victoria Park, Gardiner Stand and old press box at Carlton etc.

I wish there were mobile phones around back in the 1980s so you could take photos of all the grounds on gameday.
 
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Old Shinboner said:
I often take my son for a kick at Moorabbin (there isn't much of it left these days). The thing he says is its amazing that you have a league ground in the middle of houses! And he is right. I remember going to the likes of Windy Hill, Moorabbin, Victoria Park and walking through the suburban streets to get to the grounds....doesn't happen now. People would let you park on their front lawns for a fee!

And there was also that feeling of excitement as you walked through the turnstiles and walked up the stairs or the ramp and viewed the ground for the first time. Nothing like it these days. Particularly when you went to a ground for the first time and got to see the side of the ground that wasn't shown on the TV- the grandstand at Arden Street, the brick stand at the Lakeside Oval, the 3 grandstands at Windy Hill, the grandstands at the Junction Oval and Western Oval, the Ryder Stand at Victoria Park, Gardiner Stand and old press box at Carlton etc.

I wish there were mobile phones around back in the 1980s so you could take photos of all the grounds on gameday.
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Not sure if the council has got around to removing them but around Victoria Park there use to be street signs saying something to the effect of "no parking except for football parking" or something similar.
 
If grassroots footy was going well (which it is not) I would support the afl putting out a long term plan for the future to rebuild/update the old grounds to host afl games as I feel they add to the soul of the club
It would also bring many long suffering fans who miss the vfl and hate the corporate afl back to games
 
Roaming Lou said:
If grassroots footy was going well (which it is not) I would support the afl putting out a long term plan for the future to rebuild/update the old grounds to host afl games as I feel they add to the soul of the club
It would also bring many long suffering fans who miss the vfl and hate the corporate afl back to games
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Unfortunately that would cost way too much money. Hundreds of millions have been sunk into Kardinia Park over 15 years and it is still only 75% upgraded. Imagine doing that for multiple grounds, for what, a few games a year?

Ground rationalisation has been a big economic success - lots of people enjoying the same modern facilities week after week.
 
Old Shinboner said:
I often take my son for a kick at Moorabbin (there isn't much of it left these days). The thing he says is its amazing that you have a league ground in the middle of houses! And he is right. I remember going to the likes of Windy Hill, Moorabbin, Victoria Park and walking through the suburban streets to get to the grounds....doesn't happen now. People would let you park on their front lawns for a fee!

And there was also that feeling of excitement as you walked through the turnstiles and walked up the stairs or the ramp and viewed the ground for the first time. Nothing like it these days. Particularly when you went to a ground for the first time and got to see the side of the ground that wasn't shown on the TV- the grandstand at Arden Street, the brick stand at the Lakeside Oval, the 3 grandstands at Windy Hill, the grandstands at the Junction Oval and Western Oval, the Ryder Stand at Victoria Park, Gardiner Stand and old press box at Carlton etc.

I wish there were mobile phones around back in the 1980s so you could take photos of all the grounds on gameday.
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If you come to Scotland those grounds still exist even in the Scottish Premier League, eg Motherwell, Hamilton, Livingston, Kilmarnock.
 
My time at the old grounds was in the early to mid '80s. My primary school used to hand out free tickets to VFL park on Friday afternoon and my Dad would drop me off as a 12 year old to watch St. Kilda lose by 10 goals. He would obviously pick me up after the match.

I loved going to Moorabbin. Took a couple of trains and walked down to the ground. Even when the Saints were horrible there was a good vibe in the outer.

Dad was a Hawthorn member so I spent many a Saturday at Princes Park. That place was a dump and Carlton owned the place which made it worse.

MCG: Thought I might die sitting on the upper level of the Northern Stand. There was barb wire up there.

Victoria Park: The abuse I took wearing my Saints jumper as a 10 year old was insane.

Arden St: Don't remember much but there weren't many places to sit.

Glenferrie: Used to see it taking the train in to the City.

SCG: We lived in Sydney for a year. The year the Swans moved. A good crowd may have been 5000.
 
My grandparents used to live in Wheelers Hill when I was growing up, so my Grandpa would take me to all the games Melbourne played at Waverley (VFL) Park. Used to remember it was always cold, windy and rainy and it seemed like you were so far away from the action. Also was lucky enough to go to the last ever match there, Hawthorn V Sydney, sat at the back of the stand directly behind the siren which blasted into my ears at every interval, scared the crap out of me. I do have fond memories of the place though, it's a shame most of it is gone. This guy made a great video which gives you a good feel for the place.

Did a little tour of some of the other grounds (or rather what's left of most) a number of years ago too.
Princes Park: never actually saw a game here despite growing up in the 90s, I do regret that, have a fondness for the place for some reason.
Victoria Park: Never knew what it was like back in the day, but enjoy what they've done with the place in opening it up for public use.
Arden St: Visited there only to see that there's virtually nothing left of the old place, was really disappointed.

Might try and get out to others around Melbourne like Windy Hill, Western Oval etc at some point too.
 

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I remember four games at the old grounds as I lived interstate and rarely visited Melbourne. My trips were in May, always coinciding with the school holidays.

Princes Park, May 1978 - Carlton beat Fitzroy by less than a goal. I was invited to sit in the row behind the fence as I was only ten-years-old while Dad stood up further back. We were in the south-west corner forward pocket. I remember Percy Jones being a massive fellow and the ground shaking as he ran around.

Princes Park, May 1982 - I stood on the terraces on the outer wing with my Dad in sunny conditions as Carlton thrashed South Melbourne. I remember the speed of David Glascott on the wing.

Windy Hill, May 1984 - I was 15 by this time and could go to the game by myself. I arrived very early and sat on the row behind the fence around the half-forward flank on eastern side outer end. I struck up a chat with a Carlton teenager. I gave him a fake name because my name was not easily comprehensible. Carlton lost probably because of my dishonesty in giving a fake name.

Western Oval, May 1986 - Carlton versus Footscray as they were then called. I don't remember much of the game. I think I stood on the outer terraces around the wing. I was impressed by all the Carlton duffel coats with names and numbers on the back. They must have gone out of fashion not long after this. I wish they would come back again to matches even if worn in a retro, ironic way.

As others have said, I'm glad I got the opportunity to see those great old grounds on match days. It would be great if people published Fever Pitch (Nick Hornby) style memoirs of going to those grounds before the social history gets lost for all time.
 
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megadeth92 said:
If you come to Scotland those grounds still exist even in the Scottish Premier League, eg Motherwell, Hamilton, Livingston, Kilmarnock.
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What's the cost of a ticket to either an English or Scottish Premier League game these days? Given the relative small size of their stadiums and the demand from the soccer fans, how hard is it to get into a game? I recall a friend of mine (an ex-pat Brit) who is an ardent Chelsea fan wanting to go to a regular seasonal game when he and his wife took a three month return to England holidaying several years ago. He said that he almost missed out, saying that it was a nine week wait to get a seat, and that it cost him £250. He said that, that was pretty normal and soccer fans in Europe accepted that as normal.

I can't imagine many AFL supporters being very happy paying perhaps upward of $100 per-game to secure a seat regularly at a 21,000 capacity Princess Park, 9,000 capacity Arden Street, or even an 18,000 capacity redeveloped VUWO. AFL fans have a very fixed expectation that going to the footy for 3 hours of entertainment should cost no more than spending 2-3 hours at the movies. That's not unreasonable either considering that seats a the footy are not padded and the stadiums are neither heated or air conditioned. Further at the old suburban grounds the majority of the spectators had to stand shoulder to shoulder on concrete or asphalt terraces without any cover from the elements.
 
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weewilly said:
I think it could hold 10,000 at a pinch!
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It's not a case of "in a pinch" these days. The Health Department set down very stringent guidelines for sports venues and public gathering places. Old VFL venues that once allowed 25-30,000 spectators in the 1970s are all rated today for 6,000 to 12,000. It's everything from parking, available toilets, availability of eating outlets, the time that takes to get people to check in and do security checks, and of course reducing any risk of human crushes. The best case of what a suburban ground might look like re-imagined in the 21st Century would be Mars Stadium at Ballarat. In that example, it's about a similar size to what Arden Street was back in the 1970s having a similar footprint. 1970s Arden Street could hold a crowd of about 20-22,000 (90% standing) and it was like sardines. It's 21st Century equivalent at Ballarat has grandstands with individual seats for 5,000, which in the 70s would have offered wooden bench seats where several thousand would have squeezed in. Mars Stadium only allows a further 6,000 to stand in areas where 45 years ago they wouldn't have given a second thought to putting 10-12,000. To return to the suburban ground model would likely only see grounds developed to hold 15-20,000 spectators because that's about what the available amount of land and infrstructure surrounding those grounds today would permit. Further, once developed it's the local councils that assume the operating and ongoing maintenance costs, not the AFL or the clubs who simply lease the facilities.
 
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Jamurp said:
My grandparents used to live in Wheelers Hill when I was growing up, so my Grandpa would take me to all the games Melbourne played at Waverley (VFL) Park. Used to remember it was always cold, windy and rainy and it seemed like you were so far away from the action. Also was lucky enough to go to the last ever match there, Hawthorn V Sydney, sat at the back of the stand directly behind the siren which blasted into my ears at every interval, scared the crap out of me. I do have fond memories of the place though, it's a shame most of it is gone. This guy made a great video which gives you a good feel for the place.

Did a little tour of some of the other grounds (or rather what's left of most) a number of years ago too.
Princes Park: never actually saw a game here despite growing up in the 90s, I do regret that, have a fondness for the place for some reason.
Victoria Park: Never knew what it was like back in the day, but enjoy what they've done with the place in opening it up for public use.
Arden St: Visited there only to see that there's virtually nothing left of the old place, was really disappointed.

Might try and get out to others around Melbourne like Windy Hill, Western Oval etc at some point too.
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Do a trip to Glenferrie Oval. Almost unchanged apart from being overown with vegetation in places. Look at how tiny and compact it is, and then try to imagine how on Earth they used to squeeze average crowds of 15,000 in there :think:? More unbelievably it actually held a record crowd of over 36,000 back in 1966. They must have spilled over the fences and been allowed to sit on the boundary line, which wasn't uncommon in the 50s and 60s.
 
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Roogal said:
Do a trip to Glenferrie Oval. Almost unchanged apart from being overown with vegetation in places. Look at how tiny and compact it is, and then try to imagine how on Earth they used to squeeze average crowds of 15,000 in there :think:? More unbelievably it actually held a record crowd of over 36,000 back in 1966. They must have spilled over the fences and been allowed to sit on the boundary line, which wasn't uncommon in the 50s and 60s.
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Looking at old photos, the ground has been altered since its playing days with the Ferguson Stand partly demolished for the weightlifting center and the terraces at the Glenferrie Rd end have been removed.
 
Roogal said:
It's not a case of "in a pinch" these days. The Health Department set down very stringent guidelines for sports venues and public gathering places. Old VFL venues that once allowed 25-30,000 spectators in the 1970s are all rated today for 6,000 to 12,000. It's everything from parking, available toilets, availability of eating outlets, the time that takes to get people to check in and do security checks, and of course reducing any risk of human crushes. The best case of what a suburban ground might look like re-imagined in the 21st Century would be Mars Stadium at Ballarat. In that example, it's about a similar size to what Arden Street was back in the 1970s having a similar footprint. 1970s Arden Street could hold a crowd of about 20-22,000 (90% standing) and it was like sardines. It's 21st Century equivalent at Ballarat has grandstands with individual seats for 5,000, which in the 70s would have offered wooden bench seats where several thousand would have squeezed in. Mars Stadium only allows a further 6,000 to stand in areas where 45 years ago they wouldn't have given a second thought to putting 10-12,000. To return to the suburban ground model would likely only see grounds developed to hold 15-20,000 spectators because that's about what the available amount of land and infrstructure surrounding those grounds today would permit. Further, once developed it's the local councils that assume the operating and ongoing maintenance costs, not the AFL or the clubs who simply lease the facilities.
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The old grounds are still good for VFL and AFLW matches which is great and they could host local footy matches but they were not great for producing free flowing footy and that as contributed to AFLW matches being overly congested.
 
megadeth86 said:
I remember four games at the old grounds as I lived interstate and rarely visited Melbourne. My trips were in May, always coinciding with the school holidays.

Princes Park, May 1978 - Carlton beat Fitzroy by less than a goal. I was invited to sit in the row behind the fence as I was only ten-years-old while Dad stood up further back. We were in the south-west corner forward pocket. I remember Percy Jones being a massive fellow and the ground shaking as he ran around.
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Bernie Quinlan's first game after being cleared to Fitzroy. Think it may also have been the week Carlton supporter-of-note Bob Menzies passed away.
 
Roogal said:
What's the cost of a ticket to either an English or Scottish Premier League game these days? Given the relative small size of their stadiums and the demand from the soccer fans, how hard is it to get into a game? I recall a friend of mine (an ex-pat Brit) who is an ardent Chelsea fan wanting to go to a regular seasonal game when he and his wife took a three month return to England holidaying several years ago. He said that he almost missed out, saying that it was a nine week wait to get a seat, and that it cost him £250. He said that, that was pretty normal and soccer fans in Europe accepted that as normal.

I can't imagine many AFL supporters being very happy paying perhaps upward of $100 per-game to secure a seat regularly at a 21,000 capacity Princess Park, 9,000 capacity Arden Street, or even an 18,000 capacity redeveloped VUWO. AFL fans have a very fixed expectation that going to the footy for 3 hours of entertainment should cost no more than spending 2-3 hours at the movies. That's not unreasonable either considering that seats a the footy are not padded and the stadiums are neither heated or air conditioned. Further at the old suburban grounds the majority of the spectators had to stand shoulder to shoulder on concrete or asphalt terraces without any cover from the elements.
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St Mirren (Scottish Premier league mid-table club, average home crowd 4,000-5,000) - 20 pounds for adult ticket, 5 pounds for child 12-16.

Airdrie (Scottish League One, i.e. Third Division, average crowd 1,000) - 17 pounds will admit one adult + one child.

I live within walking distance of St Mirren stadium in Paisley and it would be cheaper to take the train across Glasgow to see Airdrie with my daughter than take her to see St Mirren (6 pound train fare included).

I grew up in Australia and can't revisit due to lockdowns. What I noticed on my last trip in July 2019 was as follows:

-Food and drink cheaper in Scotland
-Train fares and Football Admission (WAFL games in Perth) cheaper in Australia.

Celtic and Rangers - you need a season-ticket to get in to matches. All the other clubs I believe accept walk-ups.
 
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Bombermania said:
The old grounds are still good for VFL and AFLW matches which is great and they could host local footy matches but they were not great for producing free flowing footy and that as contributed to AFLW matches being overly congested.
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David Glascott did fine at Princes Park, Tim Watson was more than OK at Windy Hill and the early-years West Coast running players on their day were effective anywhere.
 
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