The on topic thread 3.0

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moomba

TheBrownDog
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That's great except the countries with the best results on COVID (South Korea / Taiwan) didn't have lockdowns at all and successfully combatted the virus despite having high exposure to the virus and high population densities. The WHO are also now saying lockdowns are not the best way to combat the virus.
If that's the case then those decisions should be taken because it's the safe thing.

Not so we can get people into football matches.
 

Zidane98

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If that's the case then those decisions should be taken because it's the seat thing. Not so we can get people into football matches.
It's not about getting people into football matches, total strawman argument. It's about saving the livelihoods of L1/L2 clubs and the associated impact on health that happens if they go bust. That's the primary concern here. That goes for any sport, not just football.
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
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It's not about getting people into football matches, total strawman argument. It's about saving the livelihoods of L1/L2 clubs and the associated impact on health that happens if they go bust. That's the primary concern here. That goes for any sport, not just football.
Surely the primary concern has to be public health, not football clubs.

Clubs can survive with appropriate levels of support from government and the football industry.
 

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Zidane98

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Surely the primary concern has to be public health, not football clubs.

Clubs can survive with appropriate levels of support from government and the football industry.
Exactly, the associated impact to health is huge should a large number of L1/L2 clubs fold. 20% socially distanced crowds are likely to have little to no impact on public health while preventing a public health catastrophe from the collapse of a large amount of L1/L2 clubs. The main benefit of this measure is public health and safety.


Government has provided support to non league clubs. EFL has no government support.




EFL have been chasing a 250m bailout for quite some time by the look of it. Don't see an agreement for project big picture happening anytime soon.
 

hawkman

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Exactly, the associated impact to health is huge should a large number of L1/L2 clubs fold. 20% socially distanced crowds are likely to have little to no impact on public health while preventing a public health catastrophe from the collapse of a large amount of L1/L2 clubs. The main benefit of this measure is public health and safety.


Government has provided support to non league clubs. EFL has no government support.




EFL have been chasing a 250m bailout for quite some time by the look of it. Don't see an agreement for project big picture happening anytime soon.
Having 20 or 25% in will also likely have little to no impact on profit as there would be costs incurred for having a crowd in.
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
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Exactly, the associated impact to health is huge should a large number of L1/L2 clubs fold. 20% socially distanced crowds are likely to have little to no impact on public health while preventing a public health catastrophe from the collapse of a large amount of L1/L2 clubs. The main benefit of this measure is public health and safety.


Government has provided support to non league clubs. EFL has no government support.




EFL have been chasing a 250m bailout for quite some time by the look of it. Don't see an agreement for project big picture happening anytime soon.
I don't know how you can say it would have little or no impact on public health. Seems based more on hope than anything. Even the act of thousands travelling to the ground (public transport etc), eating/drinking in the area is a risk before we even look at inside the ground.

You're presenting this as an either/or scenario. Let crowds in or 20/30 clubs will fold. It doesn't have to be like that, at least until the current explosion in cases gets back under control.

I'm not interested myself but I'd love for people to be able to go to the football again. But it's not the right time, we're heading straight back to the peaks of March/April and need to get it under control.
 

hawkman

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Most of those costs are incurred whether there is a crowd or not with existing agreements.
The first people you would be letting in would be any season ticket holders so most of the revenue would also be taken. So you are just taking revenue from food/drink and other minor areas
 

Zidane98

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I don't know how you can say it would have little or no impact on public health. Seems based more on hope than anything. Even the act of thousands travelling to the ground (public transport etc), eating/drinking in the area is a risk before we even look at inside the ground.

You're presenting this as an either/or scenario. Let crowds in or 20/30 clubs will fold. It doesn't have to be like that, at least until the current explosion in cases gets back under control.

I'm not interested myself but I'd love for people to be able to go to the football again. But it's not the right time, we're heading straight back to the peaks of March/April and need to get it under control.
I dont know how you can dismiss the seriousness of numerous L1/L2 clubs folding at the same time. Thousands of families are reliant on these clubs to support them.

I myself personally have seen a friend who owns a travel agency go from a successful businessman into a marriage breakup, severe depression and financial hardship all through no fault of his own. Multiply this x thousands if there is a major collapse of EFL clubs.

Either let these clubs have crowds in a safe socially distanced manner or the govt has to support them completely. Forget support from the PL, an agreement is going to take quite some time.
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
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I dont know how you can dismiss the seriousness of numerous L1/L2 clubs folding at the same time.
I haven't dismissed the seriousness. I've said a number of times that they need to be supported until things are safer.

If the premier league and the FA doesn't support the lower leagues the government should step in and tax transfer spending or something. They need to make sure clubs don't fold as well.
 

Zidane98

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I haven't dismissed the seriousness. I've said a number of times that they need to be supported until things are safer.

If the premier league and the FA doesn't support the lower leagues the government should step in and tax transfer spending or something. They need to make sure clubs don't fold as well.
I believe an agreenent will be reached eventually with the PL but not in time to save these clubs.

Theres little reason why these clubs cannot have socially distanced and reduced crowds from a public health & safety perspective.
 

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hawkman

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From Deloitte.
So about 4 and 8 million then.

Surely it wouldn't be that hard for a PL club to just donate 5 million for this season (2m to a L2 and 3m to a L1 club). Can also add in the promise of a future friendly or 2. You could almost do it in a form of sponsorship like Kane did with Leyton Orient and highlight various causes
 

Zidane98

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So about 4 and 8 million then.

Surely it wouldn't be that hard for a PL club to just donate 5 million for this season (2m to a L2 and 3m to a L1 club). Can also add in the promise of a future friendly or 2. You could almost do it in a form of sponsorship like Kane did with Leyton Orient and highlight various causes
Conflict of interest, imagine the future transfer negotiations. We gave you 5m in 2020, you can't expect us to pay more for a player. And if those 2 clubs are drawn in the cup you've got issues.

Would have to be the government that pays for me.
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
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Fell free to disagree. I'm happy to go along with factual information instead of your opinion on this:

View attachment 984798
All great factual information that ignored that people have to get to the ground (public transport), eat and drink around the ground, use toilets (maybe banned) and move through concourses etc to get to their seats.

And then hope people don't have a few pre game and start to forget themselves.

I'll stick with my opinion. It may be right, it may be wrong. But for me until it's safe it's just another thing we need to sacrifice for the greater good.
 

Zidane98

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All great factual information that ignored that people have to get to the ground (public transport), eat and drink around the ground, use toilets (maybe banned) and move through concourses etc to get to their seats.

And then hope people don't have a few pre game and start to forget themselves.

I'll stick with my opinion. It may be right, it may be wrong. But for me until it's safe it's just another thing we need to sacrifice for the greater good.
Public transport - only some will use it and its mostly empty these days. Who said they are going to eat and drink around the ground? Toilets yes but with a reduced capacity that's not an issue with them being cleaned. Moving through concourses takes all of about 2 minutes, all with masks on. Little to no risk there. Pubs/bars likely won't be open around the ground so we can discount the have a few and forgot themselves argument. In fact that's more likely to happen if they stay and watch it at home with friends and family.


I'll happily stick with my opinion with limited crowds being successfully brought back to the grounds in other countries with little to no issues.
 

SM

Bigfooty Legend
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Surely the primary concern has to be public health, not football clubs.

Clubs can survive with appropriate levels of support from government and the football industry.
And where exactly is this appropriate level of support? Clubs are still waiting however many months later that it is.
 

Zidane98

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And where exactly is this appropriate level of support? Clubs are still waiting however many months later that it is.
I am shuddering at what your owners are doing until the PL support is agreed and crowds are banned. What's the latest for you guys mate?
 

SM

Bigfooty Legend
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I am shuddering at what your owners are doing until the PL support is agreed and crowds are banned. What's the latest for you guys mate?
We're losing huge amounts on a weekly basis per our last accounts. We're hanging on because of the funds raised by Bowen's sale, but other clubs must be so close to the edge.
 

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