The on topic thread

[chef]

Jose and Conte are not world class.

Yeah agree. Neither are Carlo and Klopp though too.

 

[FAITH]

klopp is in the 2nd bracket imo. ance/saf is top class

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Is Klopp really world class?

Way to early to be calling him that.

Well the world class definition somehow includes Lucas so.......

 

[ADL9798]

How many trophies has Klopp won?

Not sure he'd be world class yet. He's lost 5 of 6 finals he's managed in. Not a great record.

Although to be fair, he's been at clubs where it's harder to dominate.

This. Some managers may have won more but had budgets of hundreds of millions of pounds/euros and established elite squads to work with.

He won 2 Bundesligas, a DFB Pokal, 2 German Supercups, made a Champions League final and 2 further DFB Pokal finals with a squad that cost £28m to assemble.

 

[Thistle]

Jose is definitely world class

 

[Jatz]

This. Some managers may have won more but had budgets of hundreds of millions of pounds/euros and established elite squads to work with.

He won 2 Bundesligas, a DFB Pokal, 2 German Supercups, made a Champions League final and 2 further DFB Pokal finals with a squad that cost £28m to assemble.

But then Ranieri would be on the same level as Klopp. Is he world class?

I just don't think he's in the upper echelon of managers. Some of the reasons he was in control of, some of them he's not.

 

[FAITH]

lol jose is not world class, he got sacked for almost getting one of the richest clubs in the world relegated
we are judging them on the now not 10 years ago

 

[jod23]

But then Ranieri would be on the same level as Klopp. Is he world class?

I just don't think he's in the upper echelon of managers. Some of the reasons he was in control of, some of them he's not.

Not really. If Bayern were in the PL this season, they would have comfortably beaten Leicester to the title. That's who Klopp and BVB were up against. So quite a bit different. Plus he did it twice, let's see if Ranieri can back it up.

 

[Jatz]

Not really. If Bayern were in the PL this season, they would have comfortably beaten Leicester to the title. That's who Klopp and BVB were up against. So quite a bit different. Plus he did it twice, let's see if Ranieri can back it up.

And BD had better finances than Leicester. They also weren't one of the favs to be relegated at the start of the season.

Leicester winning the title is a much larger effort than BD winning theirs. Essentially they need to beat just the 1 team in Germany.

Klopp couldn't have won the title if he was in charge of Leicester, I'm sure of it.

 

[Zidane98]

And BD had better finances than Leicester. They also weren't one of the favs to be relegated at the start of the season.

Leicester winning the title is a much larger effort than BD winning theirs. Essentially they need to beat just the 1 team in Germany.

Klopp couldn't have won the title if he was in charge of Leicester, I'm sure of it.

By the same token it is unlikely Klopp would have suffered the Greek national team failure though. It's fair to say that Ranieri has yet to reach Klopp's achievements in his managerial career.

 

[jod23]

FourFourTwo Magazine did a top 50 managers in the world at the beginning of the season just gone. Their top 10 were.

1 - Jose Mourinho
2 - Pep Guardiola
3 - Luis Enrique
4 - Diego Simeone
5 - Massimiliano Allegri
6 - Jurgen Klopp
7 - Unai Emery
8 - Joachim Low
9 - Carlo Ancelotti
10 - Laurent Blanc

Wenger was 11th.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Klopp higher than Wenger. Get out of town.

I guess an unbeaten title season in one of the hardest leagues with SAF at Utd isn't enough

 

[FAITH]

FourFourTwo Magazine did a top 50 managers in the world at the beginning of the season just gone. Their top 10 were.

1 - Jose Mourinho
2 - Pep Guardiola
3 - Luis Enrique
4 - Diego Simeone
5 - Massimiliano Allegri
6 - Jurgen Klopp
7 - Unai Emery
8 - Joachim Low
9 - Carlo Ancelotti
10 - Laurent Blanc

Wenger was 11th.

based on what? Ance at 9 says a lot about how reliable 442 are anyway

 

[Jatz]

By the same token it is unlikely Klopp would have suffered the Greek national team failure though. It's fair to say that Ranieri has yet to reach Klopp's achievements in his managerial career.

The Greek national sides clearly weren't Ranieri's fault. They lost to the Faroe Islands a second time, after he left and they've continued to be rubbish. Some sides just won't perform no matter who's there at the time.

Perhaps that's true. 1 win in 6 finals is still very mediocre. I'm not suggesting Klopp is no good, I just don't think he's in the world class bracket.

 

[typeclub]

Is Klopp really world class?

Way to early to be calling him that.

He had one good little spell at Dortmund but lost it when his players left him, a bit like the German Rodgers... Simeone is clearly world class.

https://twitter.com/tonyevans92a?lang=en < this is the dudes twitter who gave an objective observation on Klopp.

 

[Zidane98]

The Greek national sides clearly weren't Ranieri's fault. They lost to the Faroe Islands a second time, after he left and they've continued to be rubbish. Some sides just won't perform no matter who's there at the time.

Perhaps that's true. 1 win in 6 finals is still very mediocre. I'm not suggesting Klopp is no good, I just don't think he's in the world class bracket.

Losing 2 games to a bunch of plumbers & electricians doesn't reflect well on the manager. You could understand a once off shock result but twice is simply unacceptable. It would be like us losing twice to the likes of Fiji. It's not like Greece don't have decent players either.

In any case Raineri's spectacular failure with the Greek NT led to him being Leicester manager which is a good thing for you !!

 

[chef]

Klopp had a pretty spectacularly bad season at the end with Dortmund didnt he?

 

[ADL9798]

And BD had better finances than Leicester. They also weren't one of the favs to be relegated at the start of the season.

Leicester winning the title is a much larger effort than BD winning theirs. Essentially they need to beat just the 1 team in Germany.

Klopp couldn't have won the title if he was in charge of Leicester, I'm sure of it.

As a singular feat, this season by Leicester has been arguably the most incredible feat in sporting history. No doubt whatsoever about that, but Ranieri being a world class manager and Klopp being a world class manager aren't mutually exclusive events.

I think Klopp's ability to take a mediocre German side which finished 6th, 7th, 7th, 9th and 13th in the 5 seasons before he arrived to the pinnacle of German and European football on a minuscule budget, and replicate it for 3 further seasons to prove that it wasn't a fluke is what puts him in that world class bracket for me.

For me, Ranieri is already going to go down in history for what he's achieved over the last 12 months, but I think the litmus test for Ranieri's credentials as a world class manager will be if he can back up this season with another top 4 finish or a strong showing in the Champions League next year to prove that this season wasn't just a perfect storm.

Replication of success (being a relative term that differs from club to club based on the resources available to them) in different seasons and/or at different clubs are the conditions that define a 'world class' manager for me.

 

[Zidane98]

Klopp had a pretty spectacularly bad season at the end with Dortmund didnt he?

Still ended up qualifying for Europe in the end.

 

[Jatz]

Losing 2 games to a bunch of plumbers & electricians doesn't reflect well on the manager. You could understand a once off shock result but twice is simply unacceptable. It would be like us losing twice to the likes of Fiji. It's not like Greece don't have decent players either.

In any case Raineri's spectacular failure with the Greek NT led to him being Leicester manager which is a good thing for you !!

You didn't read what I wrote haha. Ranieri only lost to the Faroe Islands once. The second time the Greeks lost to them, he'd already left.

 

[ADL9798]

Klopp had a pretty spectacularly bad season at the end with Dortmund didnt he?

Unless you're Pep Guardiola, every great manager has had a bad season(s) where their message to the players is lost in translation and/or they have a slew of mitigating factors working against them. Look at Jose's last 12 months.

 

[Zidane98]

You didn't read what I wrote haha. Ranieri only lost to the Faroe Islands once. The second time the Greeks lost to them, he'd already left.

My bad. I see his Greek tenure lasted 4 games.

 

[chef]

Unless you're Pep Guardiola, every great manager has had a bad season(s) where their message to the players is lost in translation and/or they have a slew of mitigating factors working against them. Look at Jose's last 12 months.

Yeah i agree with that. Im not saying that hes a bad manager.

 

[elhadjihenry]

FourFourTwo Magazine did a top 50 managers in the world at the beginning of the season just gone. Their top 10 were.

1 - Jose Mourinho
2 - Pep Guardiola
3 - Luis Enrique
4 - Diego Simeone
5 - Massimiliano Allegri
6 - Jurgen Klopp
7 - Unai Emery
8 - Joachim Low
9 - Carlo Ancelotti
10 - Laurent Blanc

Wenger was 11th.

Klopp higher than Wenger. Get out of town.

I guess an unbeaten title season in one of the hardest leagues with SAF at Utd isn't enough

If it was based on their current rankings (which it must be considering Enrique and Emery are in there) then it's probably right. Wenger has some serious notches in his belt but his last few seasons haven't exactly been a management masterclass.

 

[FAITH]

id take wenger over klopp but on the basis he had to buy quality players