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Cooldude said:
It's a Chinese businessman, 99.9% of them are dodgy
Click to expand...

At least they're ambitious. Apparently China will win the World Cup within the next 30 years & Villa will be one of the 3 biggest teams in the world.
 

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Yeah ridiculous article. Hasn't been able to sign players and was without Sturridge / Coutinho / Henderson / Lovren for large parts of the season. Reaching the final of the EL league was a great effort.

Let's see how Klopp goes after bringing in his own players and getting rid of the ones he doesn't want and not having to manage an injury crisis.
 
NFGKizza said:
it's a cult.
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You do know it's against BF rules to get around the swear filter. A bit harsh to label an entire organisation as that as well.

Fair, but harsh.
 
Cruyff14 said:
Relevant.

http://www.espnfc.com/club/liverpoo...rves-criticism-for-liverpools-mediocre-season
Click to expand...

"No one should judge Klopp until he is able to recruit the sort of players he can trust"

Yet here we are.

Like a number of former Liverpool players and pundits with links to the club/city, Tony Evans has made a career out of pissing & moaning. If we finished top 4, he'd complain we didn't win the league. If we won the Europa final, he'd complain it wasn't the Champion's League.

We focus on the league instead of playing reserves/kids in the final month of the half of the season and finish 4th-6th, Evans probably writes about how we bottled it in Europe. We make a European final, he writes about how we bottled it in the league. That's just the way he is.

We've improved under Klopp, there's no doubt of that (there's no chance whatsoever that we make 2 cup finals the way Rodgers had the team playing in the first half of the season). Obviously further improvement by both the manager and the playing group are essential, I don't think there are any illusions about that. The expectation of a club like Liverpool is that given the resources available to us, we should be capable of both challenging for silverware and maintaining strong, consistent league form simultaneously. This year we were only able to achieve 1 of those things. Under Rodgers during his last 12 months in charge we were doing neither.

We've taken steps forward, not enough for our new manager to be held up as a deity/rockstar as he is sometimes portrayed, but enough for supporters like me to be happy with the progress we're making and the trajectory we're on under the Klopp.
 
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ADL9798 said:
We've taken steps forward, not enough for our new manager to be held up as a deity/rockstar as he is sometimes portrayed, but enough for supporters like me to be happy with the progress we're making and the trajectory we're on under the Klopp.
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Don't think Evans is saying much different than that tbh.
 
moomba said:
Don't think Evans is saying much different than that tbh.
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I took from his article that he doesn't think there's been any improvement under Klopp's tenure so far. I think anyone who actually watched us regularly under Rodgers in 2015 and under Klopp in 2015/16 would differ with him on that. Does he, or anyone else for that matter, honestly think we beat United, Dortmund & Villareal over 2 legs en route to a Europa final the way Rodgers had us playing at the end of his tenure?

The league form and our final standing were poor - consistency and our propensity to concede from a defensive or goalkeeping error almost every time a ball was lofted vaguely in the direction of our penalty area were largely to blame for that, but to be honest it was almost irrelevant in the end.

Had he wanted to, Klopp could have played a full strength side in those last 6 league games instead of playing the kids, nabbed an extra 2-3 wins to push us into 5th, and there's that improvement in league form that people like Evans were after to give quantitative validation of improvement on Rodgers, but to what end? 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, it really makes no difference to me. The whole purpose of a football club is to win trophies. Klopp chose to push for silverware and didn't want to take any chances whatsoever by using his best 11 in the league once we got to the pointy end of the season, and while not ideal I don't think anyone would blame him for that, because it was a decision made which maximised our chances of achieving that goal.

If we had won the Europa final and CL qualification wasn't on offer, I'd prefer that over finishing 4th and qualifying for the CL every day of the week. Some people value different things when it comes to their club and football in general, and I guess that will lead to different interpretations of what things like 'success' or 'improvement' look like.
 

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I don't know. He talks about him being a brilliant acquisition, the best available to Liverpool and potentially one of the all time great managers at Liverpool.

Also talks about him needing time. As much as three years.

But I agree with him in relation to the plaudits he is getting from Liverpool and non Liverpool supporters. He's not actually done anything special yet on the pitch (I think he has changed the atmosphere around the club off the pitch quite a lot).

I touched on it last week with the W/L/D comparison between his first 52 games and Rodgers last 52. A few predictably took it the wrong way but it was always more a line of thinking that Klopp needs to do more to justify the plaudits he is getting. Whether he is capable of doing that is a totally different argument.

I think he will improve the results, but I'm not sure it'll be to the extent that a lot are expecting.
 
Football has fine lines.

One game of football. One.

We lost against Sevilla so article reads.

  • Klopps record is similar to Rodgers last however many games
  • Liverpool finished 8th
  • Liverpool have not qualified for Europe
  • Klopp deserves criticism
  • Klopp shouldnt be looked at by the fans as a genius or god
  • Klopp should mask weaknesses of squad while enhancing it's strengths
  • Klopp should work miracles
We win that one game of football.

  • Klopps record is similar to Rodgers but two cup finals in 8 months and one massive European trophy proves he is far better than Rodgers
  • Liverpool finished 8th only due to squad rotation so that Liverpool had the best chance of winning EL. It paid off as Liverpool win big in Basel.
  • Liverpool have Champions League football to look forward to thanks to Klopp
  • Klopp deserves praise for taking a squad that he didnt build to winning a huge European trophy. Imagine what he can achieve with his own squad.
  • Klopp should be looked at by the fans as a genius or god.
  • Klopp masked weaknesses of squad while enhancing it's strengths to bring home silverware
  • Klopp has worked miracles.

One game.

That's all it was. But we lost.

Am I disappointed we lost and missed out on a huge European trophy and getting back into the CL? Of course.

Is it all doom and gloom and is Klopp shit? No.

Have the fans made him into too much of a god? Of course. He isnt the messiah. There is a huge amount of work to be done to get Liverpool back to the top and I'm sure nobody knows this more than Klopp himself.

Is Klopp capable of it? Sure, he's world class.

Will he do it? Who knows, but im looking forward to finding out.
 
chef said:
Is Klopp really world class?

Way to early to be calling him that.
Click to expand...
How many world class managers are there? You'd want to be top 10 in the world I guess.

It's difficult though, everyone says Guardiola is world class but he has managed Barcelona and Bayern Munich. Does anyone believe that if Klopp went to Bayern or Barca that they wouldnt continue to win a truck load of silverware.

On the other hand, could Pep go to Dortmund and build a side from scratch to knock off Bayern two years running and make a CL final? Who knows?
 

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chef said:
I guess i have a different opinion on what is 'world class'. Not saying hes not a decent manager but hes still got a bit to go until hes top of the tree.

Out of curiosity how many 'world class' managers are there getting around?
Click to expand...
Pep
Jose
Carlo
Simeone
Conte
Klopp
 
How many trophies has Klopp won?

Not sure he'd be world class yet. He's lost 5 of 6 finals he's managed in. Not a great record.

Although to be fair, he's been at clubs where it's harder to dominate.
 
Liverpools finish of 8th equals their worst since they came up
in the 1960's.

Just putting that out there
 
WealstoneRaider said:
Liverpools finish of 8th equals their worst since they came up
in the 1960's.

Just putting that out there
Click to expand...

In fairness, the league is a lot more competitive now than it has ever been.

Having said that, it is not an acceptable result for a club like Liverpool, and it staggers me the way that some Liverpool fans are happy to gloss over it and accept mediocrity.
 
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