The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

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D Mitchell

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Old Trumpie, eh ? Wierdo to the last. Sily old b....r, paraphrasing Bob Hawke. A waste of 4 years ? Ignore

Standing up to CCP and Chinese military expansionism
Peace Treaties in Middle East
economic growth
reduction illegal immigration
renewed but Euro financed rejuvenation of NATO;
Review of US Taxation;
re introduction of secondary industry in inner US
 

dogwatch

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Old Trumpie, eh ? Wierdo to the last. Sily old b....r, paraphrasing Bob Hawke. A waste of 4 years ? Ignore

Standing up to CCP and Chinese military expansionism
Peace Treaties in Middle East
economic growth
reduction illegal immigration
renewed but Euro financed rejuvenation of NATO;
Review of US Taxation;
re introduction of secondary industry in inner US
Ah yes, this sociopathic self-absorbed bully.


That's leadership for you.
 

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philmb

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Old Trumpie, eh ? Wierdo to the last. Sily old b....r, paraphrasing Bob Hawke. A waste of 4 years ? Ignore

Standing up to CCP and Chinese military expansionism
Peace Treaties in Middle East
economic growth
reduction illegal immigration
renewed but Euro financed rejuvenation of NATO;
Review of US Taxation;
re introduction of secondary industry in inner US
Locked Hillary Clinton up? Nope
Built that wall? 15 miles of new wall, yes, with 350 miles of replaced walls...
- and Mexico hasn't paid for any of it!
Replaced the Affordable Care Act? Nope...which is a good thing anyway
Revealed his tax returns? Nope
Coronavirus to be gone by Easter? Rounded the corner? Just getting silly now...
Made America 'great' again? Hardly...

Pick and choose what you want.
 

King Harold

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Old Trumpie, eh ? Wierdo to the last. Sily old b....r, paraphrasing Bob Hawke. A waste of 4 years ? Ignore

Standing up to CCP and Chinese military expansionism
Peace Treaties in Middle East
economic growth
reduction illegal immigration
renewed but Euro financed rejuvenation of NATO;
Review of US Taxation;
re introduction of secondary industry in inner US
Again , most pure fiction if you think Trump has achieved all of the above.
Trump has no world view, he has a View for Trump.

Example,
I did 4 years of economics at high school , not exactly rocket science.
Look up the US deficit pre Covid.
Not hard to keep an economy going if you are prepared to keep borrowing money.
One of the biggest spending Presidents ever.

Review of Taxation , from the tax cuts 80% of the benefit went to the wealthy top 10% .
In a world where the wealth gap between rich and poor is widening at an alarming rate , not sure this is a good
strategy to curb social unrest. ( we won’t mention Trumps contribution to the country’s coffers )

I could keep going ——-

History won’t be kind to this crooked buffoon no matter how you continue to spin it.

Your not a fan of Andrews and a non stop critic of his handling of the virus , but at the same time laud Trump ?
How are they travelling over there right now ?

Hypocrisy, is No longer a tag that bothers some people these days.
 

Fossie 32

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D Mitchell

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A...

Your not a fan of Andrews and a non stop critic of his handling of the virus , but at the same time laud Trump ?
How are they travelling over there right now ?.....
I'm sure I've never said anything about how the US handles the Pandemic. Like many other parts of the World, the US prioritises the economy, Australia doesn't. Judging the US by Australian standards is futile. My concern with US politics is only as to the Alliance, primarily defence and the economy. I think Trump is better for Australia than Clinton would have been or that Biden will be. Trump and his Government have achievements, I like that he's shaken up the world order, that's not lauding him or his Government. Andrews and his government are a different kettle of fish. They are my government, responsible for poor administration and a below par performing Public Service. They deserve criticism.
 

King Harold

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I'm sure I've never said anything about how the US handles the Pandemic. Like many other parts of the World, the US prioritises the economy, Australia doesn't. Judging the US by Australian standards is futile. My concern with US politics is only as to the Alliance, primarily defence and the economy. I think Trump is better for Australia than Clinton would have been or that Biden will be. Trump and his Government have achievements, I like that he's shaken up the world order, that's not lauding him or his Government. Andrews and his government are a different kettle of fish. They are my government, responsible for poor administration and a below par performing Public Service. They deserve criticism.
Ok , I will take your word on the pandemic issue.
But the other aspects , defence and economy.
I have told you how Trump has fuelled his “ best economy ever “ bs.

The alliance with the US has been in place since you and me were pups.
It won’t change under Biden , just another throw away line you come up with.
Trump is just the type of character that might one day walk away from any agreement.
You know why ? Because he can be bought . He worships money and not much else.

You really believe this guy has any world view and handle on global politics ?

Five star Generals and senior diplomats tell us Trump has the mind of a child , and that doesn’t concern you?
.
Shaking up the world order !
Yep you got that right , by deciding for himself who wins elections. Democracy is not for him.
You vote Andrews out and I’m 100% sure he will vacate his office.

Trump is a dangerous joke and in no way better for Australia.
 

D Mitchell

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...
It won’t change under Biden , just another throw away line you come up with.
...Trump is a dangerous joke and in no way better for Australia.
We don't know what Biden will do, we do know what the US under Trump did and that was to contain China and Iran, the latter not really our problem. After the famous 'phone call between Trump and Turnbull, I feared that Trump would weaken the Alliance, he's turned out to be much better than I'd thought. You can't say that the alliance won't change under Biden, even less so under Harris. Trump gave Australia preferential treatment in trade issues and beefed up US presence in the South China Sea. Both worked to our advantage. It remains to be seen what Biden/Harris will do.
 

King Harold

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We don't know what Biden will do, we do know what the US under Trump did and that was to contain China and Iran, the latter not really our problem. After the famous 'phone call between Trump and Turnbull, I feared that Trump would weaken the Alliance, he's turned out to be much better than I'd thought. You can't say that the alliance won't change under Biden, even less so under Harris. Trump gave Australia preferential treatment in trade issues and beefed up US presence in the South China Sea. Both worked to our advantage. It remains to be seen what Biden/Harris will do.
As usual you make all these generalisations.
While Trump is “containing “ China and Iran , one is busily building its naval bases in the South China Sea unabated, the other resuming enriching weapons grade uranium after he tore up an agreement worked out with other US allies.

My word you have a lot of confidence in a very dodgy NY property developer.
 

lachy

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Old Trumpie, eh ? Wierdo to the last. Sily old b....r, paraphrasing Bob Hawke. A waste of 4 years ? Ignore

Standing up to CCP and Chinese military expansionism

Wrong their expansion has continued unabated

Peace Treaties in Middle East

With insignificant allies who rely on the US

economic growth

Slower in his first three years than Obama's in has last 3 years

reduction illegal immigration

Really?? Any evidence this actually occured

renewed but Euro financed rejuvenation of NATO;

Broken down the alliance to the point there is a real risk it will no longer be an alliance

Review of US Taxation;

For the richest 2 %\

re introduction of secondary industry in inner US

Again evidence?? Less jobs growth in his first 3 years than the last 3 years of Obama
 

lachy

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As usual you make all these generalisations.
While Trump is “containing “ China and Iran , one is busily building its naval bases in the South China Sea unabated, the other resuming enriching weapons grade uranium after he tore up an agreement worked out with other US allies.

My word you have a lot of confidence in a very dodgy NY property developer.
There can only ever be generalisations, assumptions, conspiracies etc in support of Trump.

There is not a single lasting positive impact the Orange Man has made to either the US or the World in his 4 years, nothing.

However, there are many dangerous impacts, many of which will be long lasting that this buffoon has wrought on the world, but more significantly in the US
 

Norm De Guerre

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Old Trumpie, eh ? Wierdo to the last. Sily old b....r, paraphrasing Bob Hawke. A waste of 4 years ? Ignore

Standing up to CCP and Chinese military expansionism.
Peace Treaties in Middle East
economic growth
reduction illegal immigration
renewed but Euro financed rejuvenation of NATO;
Review of US Taxation;
re introduction of secondary industry in inner US
This talking-point rubbish again?

Give me a viable example of the US standing up to Chinese expansionism that is beyond the previous administrations policy of pivoting its entire defence posture towards containment of China in the pacific. Increasing a defence budget that has historically outspent the rest of the world is not a viable response.

The idiotically unnecessary trade war that he initiated has been a disaster for farmers across the US. One that has required huge gov subsidies to keep afloat.

A few minor treaties between Israel and small middle eastern gulf states that have never been in conflict, treaties that had more to do with a domestic election and selling arms than it did with a breakout of peace across the region. Its telling that none of the real power players of the region like Saudi Arabia and Iran had much to do with any of these pr events. Let alone addressing the true festering sore of the region, the issues between Israel and Palestine.

its a growth economy. Thats what it does. The question is at what cost?

He got NATO members to pay more of the administrative costs of the organisation and had them sign up to a non-binding goal of spending 2% of GDP on defence. These are two completely different things in terms of dollars, a nuance that trump clearly missed. However, most members had already been incrementally increasing their defence spend and the agreement to reach this goal had already been signed off on in 2014. The transactional fool clearly saw the treaty as a protection racket that he could leverage into making member nations spend more on US defence tech. Member nations clearly saw through this bullying but ultimately empty rhetoric and decided to bide their time by humouring him with a hollow PR win. Just as Putin, Xi, Erdogan and Kim Jong-un have.

Illegal immigration has been on the decrease since 2007. Putting that aside speaking of numbers something you seem very fond of in this context. He has overseen a program that has seen 500 children separated from their parents with little hope of them being reunited.

There was indeed an increase in manufacturing in the first two years of his presidency bought about by the sugar hit of his corporate tax cuts. This however was already on the wane long before it fell completely off the Covid induced cliff.

I note you make no mention of his inept handling of Covid and how it is going to mire the Biden governments ability to get the economy fully functioning again. Nor does your apparent focus on his foreign policy victories make mention of his failed sanctions on Iran, their resumption of its uranium enrichment program after he needlessly junked a workable containment policy. Let alone his current undermining of the democratic process when you try and justify his chaotically inept single term as president as the final curtain comes down on the TrumpShow.
 
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D Mitchell

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As usual you make all these generalisations.
While Trump is “containing “ China and Iran , one is busily building its naval bases in the South China Sea unabated, the other resuming enriching weapons grade uranium after he tore up an agreement worked out with other US allies.

My word you have a lot of confidence in a very dodgy NY property developer.
It's all comparative, I assess his presidency as better than Clinton's would have been and what I expect Biden/Harris will be. They (Biden/Harris) might surprise me, as Trump did. Biden's on record as calling Xi a thug. Whilst that's more aggressive than Trump, it isn't in Australia's interests for war to break out. With China and Iran, and North Korea, for that matter, Obama sat back and did nothing for 8 years.
 

King Harold

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It's all comparative, I assess his presidency as better than Clinton's would have been and what I expect Biden/Harris will be. They (Biden/Harris) might surprise me, as Trump did. Biden's on record as calling Xi a thug. Whilst that's more aggressive than Trump, it isn't in Australia's interests for war to break out. With China and Iran, and North Korea, for that matter, Obama sat back and did nothing for 8 years.
No I agree there are no winners in any war.
But let me get this straight , Trump stands up to China a little bit , but Biden’s going to start a war because he called XI a thug ? Come on mate your smarter than that !
And Obama sat back and did nothing ? What ? because he didn’t start a war ?

As Norm articulates far better than me , you never address the issues we think makes him totally unsuited to holding any public office let alone the President of the USA.
You could literally write a book to substantiate our claim.

Perhaps your happy with a Putin style “ democracy “ , Trump certainly is ?

I happen to think he is a total crook and confident history will record the fact.
 

King Harold

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There can only ever be generalisations, assumptions, conspiracies etc in support of Trump.

There is not a single lasting positive impact the Orange Man has made to either the US or the World in his 4 years, nothing.

However, there are many dangerous impacts, many of which will be long lasting that this buffoon has wrought on the world, but more significantly in the US
Agree lachy , I can imagine every US election is now going to be tainted by what this Buffoon has brought on the American people.
In historical terms this election is not close.
The US has been split down the middle for a long time.
The difference this time is , yep , Trump.
A spoiled rich boy crook that will do anything to win, hook or by crook !

Look at the way previous winners and losers have behaved compared to Trump - he is a bloody disgrace !
 

LittleG

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It's all comparative, I assess his presidency as better than Clinton's would have been and what I expect Biden/Harris will be. They (Biden/Harris) might surprise me, as Trump did. Biden's on record as calling Xi a thug. Whilst that's more aggressive than Trump, it isn't in Australia's interests for war to break out. With China and Iran, and North Korea, for that matter, Obama sat back and did nothing for 8 years.
Trump paid more taxes in China than he did in the US.... his tariffs backfired badly.

What would have been better was creating a huge trading block of ALL the countries in the Pacific except China (and N Korea).... then used their market share and manufacturing capability to sideline Chinas dominance. A trade treaty like that would have taken years of work....

But Trump in his ‘wisdom’, withdrew from it in his first year. Shame really.
 

D Mitchell

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... , you never address the issues we think makes him totally unsuited to holding any public office let alone the President of the USA.
...
Quite right, Trump's suitability for the office of President of the USA is a topic I have no interest in pursuing and won't. You and a number of others work up all this angst arguing about whether Trump is or is not a good president or fit for office. Your arguments get down to his personal habits. Trump is a crook, he pays tax in China, he won't accept that Biden's the President Elect, he is a friend of Putin, he's a dodgy property developer, he has orange hair, he's racist, he's stupid, he plays golf, he tweets, he appoints people you disapprove of to his executive. Then if anyone puts forward a view that doesn't fit your narrative, your response is sarcasm and derision. I'm happy to leave it to others who have an interest.
 

Bont2Bruce

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You and a number of others work up all this angst arguing about whether Trump is or is not a good president or fit for office. Your arguments get down to his personal habits.
Norm gave you a wall of text that had nothing to do with his personal habits, you either didn't read any of it or don't understand what you are talking about here.
 
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D Mitchell

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Norm gave you a wall of text that had nothing to do with his personal habits, you either didn't read any of it or don't understand what you are talking about here.
..a wall of text ...
That just about sums it up. Look at the first and last sentences, hardly inviting engagement. What's in the middle is as you describe it.
 

BEaston

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Norm gave you a wall of text that had nothing to do with his personal habits, you either didn't read any of it or don't understand what you are talking about here.
The guy never replies with anything of substance. Knows as soon as the actual topics or issues are discussed there's nothing for him to stand on. Fastest disappearing act of all time.
 

Norm De Guerre

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It's all comparative, I assess his presidency as better than Clinton's would have been and what I expect Biden/Harris will be. They (Biden/Harris) might surprise me, as Trump did. Biden's on record as calling Xi a thug. Whilst that's more aggressive than Trump, it isn't in Australia's interests for war to break out. With China and Iran, and North Korea, for that matter, Obama sat back and did nothing for 8 years.
The mental gymnastics and conclusions on display in this paragraph just boggles the mind.

It might be time to knock this thread on the head.
 

King Harold

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Norm gave you a wall of text that had nothing to do with his personal habits, you either didn't read any of it or don't understand what you are talking about here.
I don’t get it , he is clearly a Trump fan .Why not just say it , instead of this airy fairy defence he puts up all the time on this thread.
Its seems some more US naval ships floating around the South China Sea is enough to “ float his boat “
Never mind there is a crook in the Whitehouse.
 

Bont2Bruce

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I don’t get it , he is clearly a Trump fan .Why not just say it , instead of this airy fairy defence he puts up all the time on this thread.
Its seems some more US naval ships floating around the South China Sea is enough to “ float his boat “
Never mind there is a crook in the Whitehouse.
I think D Mitchell knows that a discussion about Trump's "fitness for office" isn't going to end with a conclusion that he is comfortable with, which is why he seeks to avoid even considering that very type of discussion.

Instead, he has conveniently blocked out a whole bunch of issues attached to Trump with a simple "I'm not interested", apparently because once he's done that they no longer exist. From where I sit, it's simply denial.

I believe the Americans who I heard interviewed on the streets of Kansas and South Dakota who made statements such as "Trump couldn't have done any better with the pandemic" are in a similar state of denial. The possibility that Trump could have taken alternate actions to address the pandemic has never occurred to them and frankly never will.
 

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