The pattern and the response

[joe444]

We can always respond to losing important games. We just can't ever win important games.

As a fanbase, in 2007, we were furious after the North Melbourne game. We were angry with the club and communicated it directly. Enough was enough.

In 2007, Paul Chapman called the boys in for a reality check and the coach, for all his future problems, was up to the moment.

In 2020, I'm furious again. Last night was so ridiculously predictable. Next week's response will also be, and already is, predictable. It just won't matter.

Where are the leaders right now at this club? Nobody stands up within and calls it what it is.

 

[Down at K Park]

Will probably win next week. And then s**t the bed in the prelim. So predictable. You can almost set your watch to it.

 

[afl genius]

We can always respond to losing important games. We just can't ever win important games.

As a fanbase, in 2007, we were furious after the North Melbourne game. We were angry with the club and communicated it directly. Enough was enough.

In 2007, Paul Chapman called the boys in for a reality check and the coach, for all his future problems, was up to the moment.

In 2020, I'm furious again. Last night was so ridiculously predictable. Next week's response will also be, and already is, predictable. It just won't matter.

Where are the leaders right now at this club? Nobody stands up within and calls it what it is.

Name the blokes on the list that really really hurt to the point that it makes them utterly sick when we lose that they would demand the things you speak about.

Selwood
Maybe Danger?

But back to 07-11 we had
Mooney
Chapman
Ling
Scarlett
Bartel
Harley
Selwood
Rooke
Probably forgetting some

 

[Mad_Hatter]

We'll win next week, then show up against richmond, not take all of our chances and get over-run late by a fast finishing and polished tigers, who will then roll into an easy Grand Final against a cooked opponent and win the flag. Again. Just like last year.

 

[Strange Cat]

The club doesn’t give a * it has reverted to pre 2007 culture of happy to have a pay check

not many competitive players on the list anymore like we did all those years ago

it makes me sick

 

[Cursed Cat]

One of the oldest teams ever to take the field clearly has no improvement to come; the ceiling has been reached.
Natural attrition will account for Ablett and Harry at the end of the year (next week?) but there are others that the club need to take a long hard look at in terms of list spots; time to pension off a few and invest in youth.

Fortunately the club has not completely neglected the draft in recent years, unfortunately some of those overlooked kids might seek greener pastures (= senior game time) moving forward.

I hope Wells uses his draft selections at the actual draft rather than squandering them on plodders like Crouch and Viney; we are not in a Premiership window, we are in a holding pattern going nowhere.
Spend three high-end draft picks and hopefully at least one becomes a 200+ gamer for the club.

Give DeKoning and Evans opportunities in 2021.
Hopefully we retain Narkle; if so, play him.
I've ranted about Ratugolea enough; I want him in the team despite form fluctuations. If Chris Scott is capable of developing young players then Esava has to be Kid A.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I've liked the decent games Rohan has popped up for and been frustrated at the rest. I think he was well worth the trade in but potentially had run its course.

I'd offer another contract but would give him the provision that he's not an automatic selection. I'd look at the forward line mix and maybe go smaller with his position and try give brad close a bit more of a look there over the preseason and see where it ends up come round 1.

 

[cats_09]

I've liked the decent games Rohan has popped up for and been frustrated at the rest. I think he was well worth the trade in but potentially had run its course.

I'd offer another contract but would give him the provision that he's not an automatic selection. I'd look at the forward line mix and maybe go smaller with his position and try give brad close a bit more of a look there over the preseason and see where it ends up come round 1.

Think Rohan signed a 1-year extension earlier this year

Main thing I'm hoping for next season is a return of the second tier comp (VFL / it's news incarnation), as that will surely provide a better grounding for the next group of players coming through and help them to put better pressure on the current best 22 than what the scratch matches provided this year

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Think Rohan signed a 1-year extension earlier this year

Main thing I'm hoping for next season is a return of the second tier comp (VFL / it's news incarnation), as that will surely provide a better grounding for the next group of players coming through and help them to put better pressure on the current best 22 than what the scratch matches provided this year

Yeah that's the part where I'm losing my mind a bit.

I want to see what the next batch looks like, not read a media article that lists some players that were really good with a couple of highlights then ends with a single line about how the cats were beaten comfortably

 

[Whit3y]

Name the blokes on the list that really really hurt to the point that it makes them utterly sick when we lose that they would demand the things you speak about.

Selwood
Maybe Danger?

But back to 07-11 we had
Mooney
Chapman
Ling
Scarlett
Bartel
Harley
Selwood
Rooke
Probably forgetting some

How do we know?

 

[cats_09]

Yeah that's the part where I'm losing my mind a bit.

I want to see what the next batch looks like, not read a media article that lists some players that were really good with a couple of highlights then ends with a single line about how the cats were beaten comfortably

I'm also not sure how competitive these scratch matches are - seems that the main purpose of them is for those not playing in the AFL side to have a an opportunity maintain a level of fitness, or gain fitness after injury, find some touch etc, but not sure if it's in the same manner as would be done with a VFL match

VFL is a competition in its own right, games are played in a competitive nature etc, how competitive do these scratch matches get?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I'm also not sure how competitive these scratch matches are - seems that the main purpose of them is for those not playing in the AFL side to have a an opportunity maintain a level of fitness, or gain fitness after injury, find some touch etc, but not sure if it's in the same manner as would be done with a VFL match

VFL is a competition in its own right, games are played in a competitive nature etc, how competitive do these scratch matches get?

It's a good point you make and I'm thinking that there's going to have been plenty of players out there trying to prove their individual brilliance at the cost of structure. No one cares about the win, it's just about getting in the seniors.

At least in vfl there's players who are not on an afl list and their only objective is winning a vfl premiership

 

[Catman]

We can always respond to losing important games. We just can't ever win important games.

As a fanbase, in 2007, we were furious after the North Melbourne game. We were angry with the club and communicated it directly. Enough was enough.

In 2007, Paul Chapman called the boys in for a reality check and the coach, for all his future problems, was up to the moment.

In 2020, I'm furious again. Last night was so ridiculously predictable. Next week's response will also be, and already is, predictable. It just won't matter.

Where are the leaders right now at this club? Nobody stands up within and calls it what it is.

Starts at the top.

When Carter comes out decrying criticism after another failed finals series, what hope do we have? Scott is doing everything they want him to, keep us in contention to generate enough hope for people to continue to buy memberships. The success isn't as important anymore.

 

[Commando]

Starts at the top.

When Carter comes out decrying criticism after another failed finals series, what hope do we have? Scott is doing everything they want him to, keep us in contention to generate enough hope for people to continue to buy memberships. The success isn't as important anymore.

thats right on field success is not as important because the football club is a business. If you’re regularly top 4 out of 18 competitors in the same marketplace you’d take that all day.
Whether it’s right or not is another argument
Does a football club exist solely to win premierships

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Starts at the top.

When Carter comes out decrying criticism after another failed finals series, what hope do we have? Scott is doing everything they want him to, keep us in contention to generate enough hope for people to continue to buy memberships. The success isn't as important anymore.

Yup.
Do you remember the prelim responses by the 2 teams who lost them last year?
Pies and us.
Pies response? Gutted, failed year, not good enough, have some hard work to do.
Our response? Successful year, fans are spoiled, great job, record finances.
One of those teams finished clear on top of the ladder after playing the best footy of anyone that year, vs the team who were lucky to finish 4th and never looked likely.
Says it all really.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

thats right on field success is not as important because the football club is a business. If you’re regularly top 4 out of 18 competitors in the same marketplace you’d take that all day.
Whether it’s right or not is another argument
Does a football club exist solely to win premierships

Yes it does.
1, success brings money, Premierships being far and away the most profitable.
2, I played and coached for many years at many levels, at no point did I lace up my boots for a game and think "gee I really hope the club makes some cash today!".

 

[Commando]

Yes it does.
1, success brings money, Premierships being far and away the most profitable.
2, I played and coached for many years at many levels, at no point did I lace up my boots for a game and think "gee I really hope the club makes some cash today!".

no that is a far too simplistic view
And players don’t run football clubs, they are paid regardless

 

[Catman]

thats right on field success is not as important because the football club is a business. If you’re regularly top 4 out of 18 competitors in the same marketplace you’d take that all day.
Whether it’s right or not is another argument
Does a football club exist solely to win premierships

Ultimately it does and success brings money.

 

[AlcoaCat]

Didn't realise Port whipped is that badly. Just now from the AFL app.

 

[BORIS332]

One of the oldest teams ever to take the field clearly has no improvement to come; the ceiling has been reached.
Natural attrition will account for Ablett and Harry at the end of the year (next week?) but there are others that the club need to take a long hard look at in terms of list spots; time to pension off a few and invest in youth.

Fortunately the club has not completely neglected the draft in recent years, unfortunately some of those overlooked kids might seek greener pastures (= senior game time) moving forward.

I hope Wells uses his draft selections at the actual draft rather than squandering them on plodders like Crouch and Viney; we are not in a Premiership window, we are in a holding pattern going nowhere.
Spend three high-end draft picks and hopefully at least one becomes a 200+ gamer for the club.

Give DeKoning and Evans opportunities in 2021.
Hopefully we retain Narkle; if so, play him.
I've ranted about Ratugolea enough; I want him in the team despite form fluctuations. If Chris Scott is capable of developing young players then Esava has to be Kid A.

The below players are all 29 or older, I highly doubt any of them will be a part of our next flag. By no means am I saying get rid of all of them, but there's some obvious names on the list that need to make way and allow our youth to come through.

Ablett, Gary
Blicavs, Mark
Dangerfield, Patrick
Duncan, Mitchell
Hawkins, Tom
Henderson, Lachlan R
Jenkins, Josh
Menegola, Sam
Rohan, Gary
Selwood, Joel
Stanley, Rhys
Steven, Jack
Taylor, Harry
Tuohy, Zach

 

[allrighty]

Starts at the top.

When Carter comes out decrying criticism after another failed finals series, what hope do we have? Scott is doing everything they want him to, keep us in contention to generate enough hope for people to continue to buy memberships. The success isn't as important anymore.

Carter was wrong in saying that. Showed very poor leadership and judgement IMO. Fact is it's a closed boys shop/circle jerk. I had hope this year but now it's another Groundhog Day for me, and I will be staggered if we get to the GF.

EDIT: I am very sad about this as I think we have the football talent on the park, but not the determination and nous off the park.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Yes it does.
1, success brings money, Premierships being far and away the most profitable.
2, I played and coached for many years at many levels, at no point did I lace up my boots for a game and think "gee I really hope the club makes some cash today!".

To a point. Premierships don't actually bring that much. Not for us anyway.
We actually made a loss one year cause we made way too much merch
Also the club doesn't get gate money from finals.
But being continually up the top makes money due to sponsorship and more media exposure.
And especially with a club like us with the reserved seats at KP. That is huge.
Winning the flag or finishing 4th doesn't make that much difference in seating revenue etc.

 

[My Tilly]

The below players are all 29 or older, I highly doubt any of them will be a part of our next flag. By no means am I saying get rid of all of them, but there's some obvious names on the list that need to make way and allow our youth to come through.

Ablett, Gary
Blicavs, Mark
Dangerfield, Patrick
Duncan, Mitchell
Hawkins, Tom
Henderson, Lachlan R
Jenkins, Josh
Menegola, Sam
Rohan, Gary
Selwood, Joel
Stanley, Rhys
Steven, Jack
Taylor, Harry
Tuohy, Zach

Again, and it gets tiring saying it but under this coach, there will not be any change.
He will ask for mature recruits in the off season. Higgins and Crouch will likely join. This means we further inhibit the development of a young player on the list just as we have done to players like Clark, Constable or Narkle.
I also believe Josh Jenkins will get handed a good chunk of matches next season and that means Kreuger and Ratugolea will stall in potential development.

Until this coaching staff get a clean out, it does not change and has not changed the best part of 7 long years.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

Will probably win next week. And then sh*t the bed in the prelim. So predictable. You can almost set your watch to it.

Yep, most likely will be West Coast, watch us come out and have a red hot go, beating them by about 5 goals. Then, come to the prelim, against Brisbane at the Gabba, quarter time will read:

Brisbane 6.1 37
Geelong 0.4 4

You can just see it.

 

[Cronin]

Carter was wrong in saying that. Showed very poor leadership and judgement IMO. Fact is it's a closed boys shop/circle jerk. I had hope this year but now it's another Groundhog Day for me, and I will be staggered if we get to the GF.

EDIT: I am very sad about this as I think we have the football talent on the park, but not the determination and nous off the park.

Is Carter finishing this year or am I thinking of something else?