The Perils of Trading Future Picks

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May 19, 2004
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Melbourne
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Richmond
I've thought for a couple of years now that AFL clubs have been handed the keys to being able to operate multi million dollar businesses, but often still run like the local footy club. This is especially evident in trading future picks.

Some clubs have done pretty well with these strategies- the Cats trading away theirs each year without consequences, besides their lack of youth being brought in.

Freo had an early near miss- they supposedly offered two first rounders for McCarthy, which GWS knocked back as not enough. Freo had finished top of the ladder this year, and figured they would again the next year. They finshed third last, so if the trade went through it would have been Pick 16 and Pick 3. GWS eventually received much less.

The Treloar deal was another high profile example. Collingwood are still probably okay with the outcome, but it cost them more than they expected. They traded Pick 7 in 2015, and a 2016 first rounder. This pick ended up being pick 8. They likely thought they'd be improving and it'd be a pick in the double digits. Doesn't mean it wasn't worth it, just that they paid more than expected

The Hawks deal was perhaps the most costly, and recognised as so at the time. Without weighing in to whether they should have chased O'Meara, or whether we'll see him at his best, it's a poor trade.

The Hawks traded Picks 23, 36 and 2017 first rounder for Pick 10 and 68. We know they slid this year, but even if they had won the flag it'd be trading 18, 23 and 36 for 10 and 68- a pretty big price. Obviously they didn't, and they actually traded away 7, 23 and 36 for 10 and 68. They gave up two second rounders to move back in this years draft.

The Dees are latest to join in, trading Pick 10 in this year's draft, as well as trading next year's first rounder. There were also various other picks traded. Without wading into whether they did well or not, I think it's a dangerous trade. Next year's draft is touted to be quite strong, so next years' pick is likely more valuable. They expect they'll get better, but as we saw with Collingwood a few years ago, this may come back to haunt them. They're currently 7th favourite for the flag at Sportsbet, and whilst I appreciate this isn't the best indicator of future success, it's at least impartial. Sportsbet would then suggest that they've also Traded Pick 11. But if they slide rather than improve it could really cost them, however they'd likely contend that it's worth the risk. Similarly with Treloar, where the Pies are still okay with the cost.

Hopefully clubs will be more cautious going forward with trading future picks. In my opinion it should be a last resort.
 
Richmond got Prestia & Rioli for what Collingwood traded for Treloar.
I would hate my club to trade a current a future 1st rounder for a player.
Way to much risk IMO.
 

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I've thought for a couple of years now that AFL clubs have been handed the keys to being able to operate multi million dollar businesses, but often still run like the local footy club. This is especially evident in trading future picks.

Some clubs have done pretty well with these strategies- the Cats trading away theirs each year without consequences, besides their lack of youth being brought in.

Freo had an early near miss- they supposedly offered two first rounders for McCarthy, which GWS knocked back as not enough. Freo had finished top of the ladder this year, and figured they would again the next year. They finshed third last, so if the trade went through it would have been Pick 16 and Pick 3. GWS eventually received much less.

The Treloar deal was another high profile example. Collingwood are still probably okay with the outcome, but it cost them more than they expected. They traded Pick 7 in 2015, and a 2016 first rounder. This pick ended up being pick 8. They likely thought they'd be improving and it'd be a pick in the double digits. Doesn't mean it wasn't worth it, just that they paid more than expected

The Hawks deal was perhaps the most costly, and recognised as so at the time. Without weighing in to whether they should have chased O'Meara, or whether we'll see him at his best, it's a poor trade.

The Hawks traded Picks 23, 36 and 2017 first rounder for Pick 10 and 68. We know they slid this year, but even if they had won the flag it'd be trading 18, 23 and 36 for 10 and 68- a pretty big price. Obviously they didn't, and they actually traded away 7, 23 and 36 for 10 and 68. They gave up two second rounders to move back in this years draft.

The Dees are latest to join in, trading Pick 10 in this year's draft, as well as trading next year's first rounder. There were also various other picks traded. Without wading into whether they did well or not, I think it's a dangerous trade. Next year's draft is touted to be quite strong, so next years' pick is likely more valuable. They expect they'll get better, but as we saw with Collingwood a few years ago, this may come back to haunt them. They're currently 7th favourite for the flag at Sportsbet, and whilst I appreciate this isn't the best indicator of future success, it's at least impartial. Sportsbet would then suggest that they've also Traded Pick 11. But if they slide rather than improve it could really cost them, however they'd likely contend that it's worth the risk. Similarly with Treloar, where the Pies are still okay with the cost.

Hopefully clubs will be more cautious going forward with trading future picks. In my opinion it should be a last resort.
Melbourne also has the biggest win out of a future trade IMO. Flipping their future first for 2016 to get pick 3 off the Gold Coast in 2015. Used it to draft Oliver. Has paid off in spades.
 
Why too much risk? You're effectively trading a speculative pick for a known quantity in most cases. The risk is that the pick turns out to be a Dangerfield type, but the hit rate on top picks is actually relatively low if you look at the stats and remove the 'gut' feeling that high pick = superstar every time.
 
If teams do better than expected then the trade is better than expected.

The two parties sit on either side of the gain/loss equation.

Clubs are making informed decisions, balancing risk and return.

I agree with most of what you have to say. My concern is many clubs don't make such informed decisions and stuff it up
 
We would have got someone in the 6 to 16 range. We did get JOM.

Next year and the year after and the year after that JOM just needs to be better than whoever we would have got.

Im pretty sure that happens.

Outside of the top 5 its an absolute raffle. That is why clubs trade picks.

Yeah my reference to JOM wasn't to suggest the Hawks overpaid, but rather trading a future pick backfired due to their lower than expected ladder position
 
I agree with most of what you have to say. My concern is many clubs don't make such informed decisions and stuff it up

I think that teams often finish differently to where they expected. And there will always be one winner and one loser (if expectations are similar). Just because the Hawks finished lower than expected doesn't (necessarily) mean that it wasn't an informed decision and a calculated risk.
 

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I think that teams often finish differently to where they expected. And there will always be one winner and one loser (if expectations are similar). Just because the Hawks finished lower than expected doesn't (necessarily) mean that it wasn't an informed decision and a calculated risk.

The problem with the hawks one was that even if they didn't drop off, it was a poor choice. They paid a big price to get the Saints pick last year. Even when the deal was made it was identified
 
Fans overvalue high picks to be honest. I've put this in a couple of posts now but I don't think a high pick in and of itself has much value - it's the context around that pick that adds the value. For example, if Melbourne make top 4 next year then they have gained value out of that trade since they gave up pick 14-18 from 2018, similarly if they drop to 18th they will gain less value having traded pick 1. Irrespective however, they still have Lever who will be a 200 game player, while any draft pick is still speculative however high it is. You only have to look at players like Watts, O'Rourke etc to see pick 1 and 2 who we all expect to be superstars and who aren't. If you look at historical top 5 picks there's a significant percentage who don't achieve anything in the game other than honest plodders.

AFL still isn't conditioned to think of picks as commodities, instead we still equate a pick with a level of player even before it is used - that is a high pick as a better player, when the fact is that this is not actually the case in a significant number of cases(this is probably a decent AFL example of Moneyball).

Effectively trading any pick for a player, not just a future pick, is a trade of possible value against established value. If the pick you trade would have got you the next Dangerfield, but cost you the present Lever is that actually a significant loss if you've decided that your backline and not your midfield is the priority?
 
Fans overvalue high picks to be honest. I've put this in a couple of posts now but I don't think a high pick in and of itself has much value - it's the context around that pick that adds the value. For example, if Melbourne make top 4 next year then they have gained value out of that trade since they gave up pick 14-18 from 2018, similarly if they drop to 18th they will gain less value having traded pick 1. Irrespective however, they still have Lever who will be a 200 game player, while any draft pick is still speculative however high it is. You only have to look at players like Watts, O'Rourke etc to see pick 1 and 2 who we all expect to be superstars and who aren't. If you look at historical top 5 picks there's a significant percentage who don't achieve anything in the game other than honest plodders.

AFL still isn't conditioned to think of picks as commodities, instead we still equate a pick with a level of player even before it is used - that is a high pick as a better player, when the fact is that this is not actually the case in a significant number of cases(this is probably a decent AFL example of Moneyball).

Effectively trading any pick for a player, not just a future pick, is a trade of possible value against established value. If the pick you trade would have got you the next Dangerfield, but cost you the present Lever is that actually a significant loss if you've decided that your backline and not your midfield is the priority?

Interesting analysis, and a greeting that Lever is good enough that he's probably worth it, not unlike Treloar. I guess the concerns I have is teams don't really seem to be able to accurately gauge their future performance and as such trade too much

Whilst you're right in saying a high pick is no guarantee, it's also a fairly safe statement that the Hawks lost out in the trade go get Omeara's picks. Giving up two second rounders and pick seven to get pick ten is a poor trade, regardless of how guaranteed their success is
 
You only have to look at players like Watts, O'Rourke etc to see pick 1 and 2 who we all expect to be superstars and who aren't. If you look at historical top 5 picks there's a significant percentage who don't achieve anything in the game other than honest plodders.

historically if you look at picks, Pick no.3 and no.7 are pretty much the best picks which doesn't make sense but thats what the final result has been. It really tells you a first round pick is no more than a 50/50 shot (even a very high top pick - ie Jack Watts or the dude from Brisbane)
 
Whilst you're right in saying a high pick is no guarantee, it's also a fairly safe statement that the Hawks lost out in the trade go get Omeara's picks. Giving up two second rounders and pick seven to get pick ten is a poor trade, regardless of how guaranteed their success is

Hawks definitely lost out in the deal on picks but knowing that Omeara is a potential super star is definitely worth what they paid in the end i guess, so they can justify that way.

having said all that seems like Omeara is cooked.
 
Hopefully clubs will be more cautious going forward with trading future picks. In my opinion it should be a last resort.

the ability to trade future picks has actually cheapened the picks in trading, which is why they are thrown around like confetti. the ceiling for good players has moved to become an obligatory cry of 2 first round picks. teams have much more 'capital' to play with and can theoretically invest back in their future at any time by using current stocks.

but, i also think the first home buyer loan is an interesting analogy - the market adjusted by simply raising the price of houses to swallow up that loan. the prime cuts of the afl meat market now need your future picks for trade leverage - all this while drafting still needs 1 pick per player.
in essence, trading away your first round picks has always been trading away your future. i agree that teams now run the risk of pissing all these picks up the wall, but they have the ability to gain future picks as well.
 
Can work both ways.

The Tigers for example should have traded this years pick for Prestia instead of 6 last year.

It would be interesting to see if teams ever do a bet type trade of just picks.

I reality it doesnt matter what the pick ends up being to the team who gave it away, only what its perceived value is at the time of the trade.
 
The peril of trading, full stop. Why don't you just list all trades that didn't work out?
 
Hawks definitely lost out in the deal on picks but knowing that Omeara is a potential super star is definitely worth what they paid in the end i guess, so they can justify that way.

having said all that seems like Omeara is cooked.

I'm happy to give it another 12 months before decide he's cooked.
 

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