Food, Drink & Dining Out The Perth Thread - Part 2

[estibador]

Anecdotally? So you just mean like people saying it and then other people repeating it like you?

This whole topic started with you complaining kids don't like wearing helmets, now you're trying to deny that people dislike wearing helmets?

Look at the significant drop between the censuses on either side of the helmet law introductions when it had been trending upwards for the previous 10-15 years.

 

[JackOutback]

I'm pretty much in the middle on this; I think helmets should be compulsory up until 18, after that, rider's choice. When I ride to work, I wear a helmet because I am mixing with a lot of cars and building up some speed. But for a trip to the shops, I probably wouldn't.

But I also agree Perth's road network is made for cars, not bikes, so comparisons to Europe don't work. Also, people are becoming bigger campaigners on the road.

 

[Drumroe]

This whole topic started with you complaining kids don't like wearing helmets, now you're trying to deny that people dislike wearing helmets?

Look at the significant drop between the censuses on either side of the helmet law introductions when it had been trending upwards for the previous 10-15 years.

I still don't understand why you don't wear a helmet... So you don't wear it as a protest against the law?

 

[Perth gal]

People that don't wear helmets while cycling are idiots. Better to look like a bit of a tool then end up dead or with massive head injuries.

 

[estibador]

I still don't understand why you don't wear a helmet... So you don't wear it as a protest against the law?

Because I don't like wearing one and I only cruise along on quiet backstreets and footpaths.

If I was mixing in with serious traffic I'd wear one, but the choice should be up to me as it is in the rest of the world.

 

[Scotland]

It's funny given the one punch deaths from heads hitting concrete/pavement that people choose not to wear helmets cycling.

If you back out of your driveway and a cyclist careers into you doing 40 km/h on the footpath an unlucky fall could result in a serious head injury.

 

[Scotland]

If I was mixing in with serious traffic I'd wear one, but the choice should be up to me as it is in the rest of the world.

If you fall off and split your scone open is it your choice for all the king's horses and men to fix you?

 

[estibador]

I bet everyone here jaywalks which is flouting laws that are supposed to be in place for your safety too.

 

[quotemokc]

I bet everyone here jaywalks which is flouting laws that are supposed to be in place for your safety too.

It's another one of those things that is against the law but if police were wasting their time strictly enforcing it there would be complaints.

I have seen numerous cyclists ride past cop cars without helmets and the police don't care.

 

[Kram]

Because I don't like wearing one and I only cruise along on quiet backstreets and footpaths.

Footpaths can be one of the most dangerous places to ride imo, when there are bushes at the end of the driveway in older suburbs backing out cars and the person on the bike can't see each other. On a bike I very nearly got cleaned up after jumping from the road to on the footpath about 20m from home, and another time I almost cleaned up some on riding on the path when I was in my car.

 

[estibador]

Footpaths can be one of the most dangerous places to ride imo, when there are bushes at the end of the driveway in older suburbs backing out cars and the person on the bike can't see each other. On a bike I very nearly got cleaned up after jumping from the road to on the footpath about 20m from home, and another time I almost cleaned up some on riding on the path when I was in my car.

Yeah I'm not one of those Tour de France wannabe MAMILs who flies along. If I'm riding anywhere I leave 50% earlier than I actually need to so I can cruise around at a sedate pace and enjoy the ride.

 

[Spirit Level]

I was recently in Brisbane and I didn't know it was so looked down on to jaywalk there.

You do it in Perth and noone bats an eyelid, in fact there will usually be 4-5 other people doing the same as you.

Do it in Brisbane and you're all alone, and everyone looks at you weirdly.

 

[Kram]

Don't they have jaywalking police 'stings' in Melbourne?

I always thought it was one of those obscure joke infringements that nobody actually got given.

 

[Scotland]

I cross the terrace all the time when there's a break in traffic but I don't cross diagonally at the lights any more. You can't, they've changed all the phases from what they used to be.

 

[Beerfish]

This whole topic started with you complaining kids don't like wearing helmets, now you're trying to deny that people dislike wearing helmets?

Look at the significant drop between the censuses on either side of the helmet law introductions when it had been trending upwards for the previous 10-15 years.

I'm not 'denying' anything but don't expect me to take anecdotal evidence as fact. All that graph says to me is that if what you posit is true about the drop being solely linked to helmet law enforcement then there's a lot of dumb people around.. which is true so..

I still don't understand why you don't wear a helmet... So you don't wear it as a protest against the law?

His initial reason was something to do with nanny states and being told what to do by 'the man' but since then he's qualified it by saying well if I was actually riding faster than crawling pace or on a road with lots of cars I probably would wear one...

It's funny given the one punch deaths from heads hitting concrete/pavement that people choose not to wear helmets cycling.

If you back out of your driveway and a cyclist careers into you doing 40 km/h on the footpath an unlucky fall could result in a serious head injury.

That's the thing. You can be the safest, slowest bike rider around but that isn't going to save you from the dickhead texting in their car from mowing you down from behind because they're not paying attention and guess what? The car doesn't even have to be going that fast to kill you especially without a helmet.

Don't they have jaywalking police 'stings' in Melbourne?

I always thought it was one of those obscure joke infringements that nobody actually got given.

I seem to recall Doss has been pinged for jay walking in the not too distant past in Melbourne CBD.

Also, getting back to my original point, just this morning on the way to work I drove past a kid riding a mountain bike that was way too big for him, doing a wheelie down the road with his best look at me face on around a truck that was making a delivery to a building site.. without a helmet. Sooner or later some kid is going to be killed and this will all blow up in the media. It's a shame that's what it will take for them to actually do something worthwhile because of course there's just not the angst and tragedy attached to the story if someone hasn't died.

 

[Doss]

Two years ago, Beerfish. Still bitter as **** too.

 

[Beerfish]

Two years ago, Beerfish. Still bitter as **** too.

I would be too mate. I would be too.

 

[JackOutback]

That's the thing. You can be the safest, slowest bike rider around but that isn't going to save you from the dickhead texting in their car from mowing you down from behind because they're not paying attention and guess what? The car doesn't even have to be going that fast to kill you especially without a helmet.

Helmets will protect you from falling over at low speed and cracking your head (like a child might do). It will not protect you from being hit by a car at speed.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Don't they have jaywalking police 'stings' in Melbourne?

I always thought it was one of those obscure joke infringements that nobody actually got given.

Yeah the campaigners do and usually out the front of Melbourne Central.

About five years ago me and a mate were walking from my place to Chinatown to go to this club. Think we polished off about four whole stubbies of Boags in two hours so we were roaring and swaying all over the road... anyway, we started crossing as the man flashed red and got done. Pissed us right the **** off. About $140 each or something.

And people wonder why other people hate and resent the coppers.

 

[Beerfish]

Helmets will protect you from falling over at low speed and cracking your head (like a child might do). It will not protect you from being hit by a car at speed.

What do you base this statement on? If you're talking 100km/h then yeah you're probably right. The thing is though that broken bones can heal whilst broken brains can't.

I just did some investigoogling and the Snell Standard referenced here describes drop testing of a 5kg headform and supporting assembly from 2.2m at a force of 300G's. Not sure what speed that equates to though.

I have to say I'm honestly surprised by the anti helmet sentiment in here. I guess that answers my questions about why kids don't seem to be wearing helmets any more if this is the general attitude of adults. If I had kids I would 100% make sure they were wearing one and I'd be doing so myself to set the example.

 

[JackOutback]

What do you base this statement on? If you're talking 100km/h then yeah you're probably right. The thing is though that broken bones can heal whilst broken brains can't.

I just did some investigoogling and the Snell Standard referenced here describes drop testing of a 5kg headform and supporting assembly from 2.2m at a force of 300G's. Not sure what speed that equates to though.

I have to say I'm honestly surprised by the anti helmet sentiment in here. I guess that answers my questions about why kids don't seem to be wearing helmets any more if this is the general attitude of adults. If I had kids I would 100% make sure they were wearing one and I'd be doing so myself to set the example.

Just the idea that a helmet could protect a cyclist if hit by a car travelling at 60km/h or more; it's absurd.

And it's not anti-helmet sentiment as such, I said earlier that I'm in the middle. I wear a helmet when I ride to work but if I was taking back roads to the local deli, I'd rather not have to; they are not particularly comfortable, you have to carry them or chain them to your tyre, they often give riders and motorists an over-inflated sense of their safety etc. Also, uf we keep separating cyclists and motorists, it just makes motorists even less capable of managing roads with cyclists on them. I'd prefer we had a European attitude to cyclists on the road but I also recognise our situation is different to Europe's and people are becoming worse on the roads. My kids have to wear a helmet if they even sit on a bike.

 

[Beerfish]

Just the idea that a helmet could protect a cyclist if hit by a car travelling at 60km/h or more; it's absurd.

No what's absurd is that someone could think that the human skull provides just as much protection as a helmet.

And it's not anti-helmet sentiment as such, I said earlier that I'm in the middle. I wear a helmet when I ride to work but if I was taking back roads to the local deli, I'd rather not have to; they are not particularly comfortable, you have to carry them or chain them to your tyre, they often give riders and motorists an over-inflated sense of their safety etc. Also, uf we keep separating cyclists and motorists, it just makes motorists even less capable of managing roads with cyclists on them. I'd prefer we had a European attitude to cyclists on the road but I also recognise our situation is different to Europe's and people are becoming worse on the roads. My kids have to wear a helmet if they even sit on a bike.

Yeah I wasn't actually referring to you specifically with that comment but for someone who claims to be in the middle that's a decent paragraph essentially dedicated to why you shouldn't have to wear one. Good on you for making your kids wear them at least though.

 

[JackOutback]

No what's absurd is that someone could think that the human skull provides just as much protection as a helmet.


Yeah I wasn't actually referring to you specifically with that comment but for someone who claims to be in the middle that's a decent paragraph essentially dedicated to why you shouldn't have to wear one. Good on you for making your kids wear them at least though.

I agree, I don't think a skull offers as much protection as a helmet, but I think helmets are there for low speed falls that are far more likely to affect children than adults. I think helmets should be compulsory for children, rider's choice for adults, in an ideal world. Perth is certainly not an ideal world for cyclists. But there are good arguments for not wearing a helmet around health and (ironically) safety; as I said, helmets offer an illusory sense of safety and often leads to greater risks being taken on the road, and the more people that are encouraged to cycle the more motorists and cyclists learn to co-exist.

As it stands, I always wear a helmet and this is a philosophical discussion. It's no good telling your kids one thing and doing another, if you can help it.

 

[Beerfish]

I agree, I don't think a skull offers as much protection as a helmet, but I think helmets are there for low speed falls that are far more likely to affect children than adults.

So if I said to you get on this bike and ride along the road and I will drive up behind you and hit you with (someone else's) car at 60km/h and offered you a helmet you'd decline?

 

[perthblue]

Don't they have jaywalking police 'stings' in Melbourne?

Dunno, do they nicky ?