The Perth Thread

[The Speaker]

The only way the line goes to Yanchep is if the population of Yanchep increases to justify the need for it.

The only way the population of Yanchep inreases is with more low density housing development.

The only way the development goes ahead is if the rail/road infrastructure goes in.

Etc. It's a vicious cycle which needs to be broken. If you want to live in Yanchep then move there and ******* stay there. We need development within 20km from the city so that people that work in the city can live somewhere vaguely near it.

Or we need more cities.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Or we need more cities.

Won't that just be more expensive? Or just worsen the sprawls? Who's going to live in a city 40 minutes south of Mandurah or whatever the north peak of Perth is now? Do you really want Perth to end up like Melbourne with sprawl going in an 'n' shape? Better off filling in what's there now. Cheaper too.

 

[Riseupaustralia]

Or change the zoning laws more uniformly and allow people with 800sqm blocks to subdivide, and stop the stupid crap of magically 'adding on" 25% for corner blocks.

 

[blueboy25]

Wow, someone didn't finger a St Hilda's chick at Pinkies at New Years 2009

Penhros for me and it was 1996

 

[Silent Alarm]

Penhros for me and it was 1996

Penhros girls were the worst, the arrogance of 10s and looks of 7s at mosts. My limited experience with Perth College always made me hold them in high esteem...

 

[Scotland]

Or we need more cities.

More cities is fine, but they need to be 100km+ from Perth.

If you build suburbia within 100km of Perth people will continue to live there and commute to and from the city.

Also any new city in WA needs to serve a function other than being a spillover for Perth. Outside essential services to cater to the relative population, most places in WA don't have a lot.

 

[The Speaker]

Won't that just be more expensive? Or just worsen the sprawls? Who's going to live in a city 40 minutes south of Mandurah or whatever the north peak of Perth is now? Do you really want Perth to end up like Melbourne with sprawl going in an 'n' shape? Better off filling in what's there now. Cheaper too.

More cities is fine, but they need to be 100km+ from Perth.

If you build suburbia within 100km of Perth people will continue to live there and commute to and from the city.

Also any new city in WA needs to serve a function other than being a spillover for Perth. Outside essential services to cater to the relative population, most places in WA don't have a lot.

Perth needs satellite cities.

Rockingham and Joondalup are not doing their job. They have to be built up as proper cities, so that those living closest to them can function perfectly fine without needing the trek to Perth.

 

[The_Reaper]

I remember reading this in the West about a hypothetical high speed rail line from Geraldton to Busselton.

I also remember reading a horror story in the West about a hypothetical 5 million population Perth stretching from Lancelin to halfway down to Bunbury by 2050.

 

[Quokka]

The only way the line goes to Yanchep is if the population of Yanchep increases to justify the need for it.

The only way the population of Yanchep inreases is with more low density housing development.

The only way the development goes ahead is if the rail/road infrastructure goes in.

Etc. It's a vicious cycle which needs to be broken. If you want to live in Yanchep then move there and ******* stay there. We need development within 20km from the city so that people that work in the city can live somewhere vaguely near it.

Basic infrastructure maybe but other than that Perth's recent history shows that people will move into an area on the promise or expectation of services. Get enough people there and the services will come, or not, either way the developers are five suburbs away selling more promises of jobs, trains and picket fences.

Agree that WA needs better satelite cities, somehow there needs to be real incentives to build businesses and jobs outside of Perth. How that's done, in big enough numbers to make a difference is anyone's guess. It seems to be a pretty common problem world wide so maybe its something that will only happen because of pressure, because the population has grown large enough to force it to happen.

Part of the problem with places like Rockingham and Joondalup is there is work there but the best jobs are still in Perth and the best jobs are still in Perth because who would put their company's head office in Rockingham when it could be in (or near) Perth's CBD.

 

[Scotland]

Perth needs satellite cities.

Rockingham and Joondalup are not doing their job. They have to be built up as proper cities, so that those living closest to them can function perfectly fine without needing the trek to Perth.

De-centralisation in Perth doesn't work.

People either need to live in Perth or sufficiently far enough away from it to deter commuting.

 

[The_Reaper]

The train line to Ellenbrook was horrible policy and I'm glad it got canned.

 

[The Speaker]

De-centralisation in Perth doesn't work.

We've barely tried.

 

[Scotland]

I agree Quokka RE: the promise of infrastructure rather than the actual infrastructure. We encourage urban sprawl by planning for it and discourage higher density development with red tape.

I live about 600m from a train station which has me in the CBD in 10-15 minutes. The zoning where I live - R20 IIRC. Madness.

 

[Shupe]

My limited experience with Perth College always made me hold them in high esteem...

I dated a Perth College girl for nearly 5 years. Still have many as friends.

 

[Allikat]

Aww yay a Perth thread! I miss that place. I was born there and lived there till 3 years ago when I moved to Melbourne for work. And because I couldn't bloody afford to live in Perth.

I'm going for a family visit next month and the first thing I'm doing is going to the beach.

 

[Borry]

They should turn develop places like Joondalup, Midland, Mandurah and Rockingham like Parramatta has been developed in Sydney. They need to decentralise some employment prevalent in the CBD. There's been a 30 year plan to expand the city and keep it within certain corridors and that is what they are doing. However its gotten to the point where there needs to be significantly more medium to high density. The conservatism of some Perth people against that development what I expected in a largeish country town.

And develop Bunbury into a city similar to Wollongong population wise.

 

[Silent Alarm]

They should turn develop places like Joondalup, Midland, Mandurah and Rockingham like Parramatta has been developed in Sydney. They need to decentralise some employment prevalent in the CBD. There's been a 30 year plan to expand the city and keep it within certain corridors and that is what they are doing. However its gotten to the point where there needs to be significantly more medium to high density. The conservatism of some Perth people against that development what I expected in a largeish country town.

And develop Bunbury into a city similar to Wollongong population wise.

Who wants to live in Bunbury? Of all the nice towns in WA with beautiful beaches and plenty of prettiness, if you live out of the city, you might as well live somewhere nice. Bunbury is a rubbish place.

It's probably better to make Mandurah the main satellite town ala Geelong/the Gong. Then, as you've said, just try and centralise those outskirts. I still think that's problematic though, you'd need the biggest and best train lines in the world to service Perth at this rate and that'll make it worse. You really have to fill in the city.

 

[The Speaker]

Who wants to live in Bunbury?

No-one. That's why you build it up to make it desirable.

 

[Silent Alarm]

No-one. That's why you build it up to make it desirable.

So do you start and make business move there, make blocks extremely cheap, and then hope people look at the new hospitals and police stations and parks and hope it all comes together? I'm not trying to be condescending either, I'm serious, just curious

 

[Thistle]

Nah, I agree with Scotland. The urban sprawl of Perth is getting out of hand and unsustainable.

Everything relevant in Perth is within a 20km radius of the CBD

 

[smokingjacket]

Wow, someone didn't finger a St Hilda's chick at Pinkies at New Years 2009

Penhros girls were the worst, the arrogance of 10s and looks of 7s at mosts. My limited experience with Perth College always made me hold them in high esteem...

10/10 bants

Good form recently SA

 

[DardySingh360]

10/10 bants

Good form recently SA

If he's still talking about 09 I doubt he's getting much recently

 

[smokingjacket]

Especially when you see the suburb designs.

Joondalup City was bad enough with its pathetic nod to British living, terrace housing and dual access housing with lanes at the back, which are already dark and shady dens for the petty crims etc of the area.

But further north in Butler, and beyond, with homes on 400sqm or less, with no gardens and stacked on top of each other to maximise developers profits. Absolute shitholes.

They are ghetto's of the future in the making when the current owners children reach teenagehood. Joondalup itself is rapidly approaching this.

FMD I was taking a look at some trees the other day and I saw what they've done in the new estates in the southern swamp suburbs. Horrific. Everyone down from the town planners to the owners deserve to be shot.

The worst thing is I saw/heard an ad the other day for a new estate in the hills...because of course they are. Flatten the plain, fill in the swamps and knock down what's left of one of the prettier forested parts of Perth. Outstanding.

 

[Riseupaustralia]

If he's still talking about 09 I doubt he's getting much recently

More than you are getting from your imaginary Egyptian princess.

FMD I was taking a look at some trees the other day and I saw what they've done in the new estates in the southern swamp suburbs. Horrific. Everyone down from the town planners to the owners deserve to be shot.

The worst thing is I saw/heard an ad the other day for a new estate in the hills...because of course they are. Flatten the plain, fill in the swamps and knock down what's left of one of the prettier forested parts of Perth. Outstanding.

Yep, it truly is horrific.

Up North, the ultimate irony is that people are paying top dollar for a postage stamp block, which was once a sand dune...but just over the next sand dune, (and totally without signs or public exposure), is one of the biggest sewerage farms in WA, (Jindalee).

The local ecology now consists of peppercorn trees and about 3 different Grevillia varieties and the obligatory sandstone blockwork. A truly generic wasteland.

Just awesome.

 

[smokingjacket]

De-centralisation in Perth doesn't work.

People either need to live in Perth or sufficiently far enough away from it to deter commuting.

Commuting isn't a problem. The method of commuting is. The best jobs are always in the city and it's hard to recreate that sort of system without massive Chinese style intervention in the market which State Governments avoid like the plague because a) You get any vision kicked out of you within a few weeks of entering any government planning office and b) The most consistent donators to both sides of politics are property developers who specialise in low density housing and the government will maintain the status quo. You could build a dense city with character of say 100,000+ people in somewhere like York and link a good internal public transit system to a fast rail line to Perth for those who wanted to commute. The key is making sure it's more practical to catch the train then it is to drive.

Would have a nice flow on for the Wheatbelt in services and entertainment and open up a part of the state that's relatively ignored by tourism.