The Perth Thread

[Teriyakicat]

I'm going to have to agree with SA about the part of people whinging that its tough to find a full time job. I completed my degree 3 years ago and havn't found a full time job yet because it's tough to find a full time job in the industry, but I'm happy to pay my dues and work my way up until I get it. Teaching is the same thing, if you want a guaranteed full time job when you finish then do another degree/find another job.

My brother is an accountant- graduated many years ago, went back and studied to get his Masters while working full time (took him ages), but has not been able to find full time work. Rather, he has been on contracts that just keep rolling over into new contracts. Not sure if that's common in that line of work- it seems to be so in the teaching fraternity..

 

[Teriyakicat]

Teriyakicat is a woman. That somewhat explains the post count.

bloody dobber !!

 

[Teriyakicat]

So basically what Azzlandia was suggesting above, there is a shortage of specific teachers, or useful teachers if you were being a bit more cynical.

I think a lot of people forget that teaching (whether it's primary, secondary or tertiary) is two-faceted. You have to be able to teach and you have to have something to teach. The balance varies depending what you teach. If you're teaching primary school kids then the subject matter isn't rocket science. If you're an adult and you can't do primary school maths, spelling etc. then you should go back and do it again. The skill is engaging kids aged 6-12. stuffed if I could do that. Anyway things like year 11/12 physics, calculus etc. are actually quite difficult to most people. In order to teach it you not only have to be able to teach, but you need to know what you're talking about. Not many can do both, and those that can rarely pursue teaching. If you can do physics, calculus etc. and aren't a complete savant then you should be able to forge a professional career with a healthy 6 figure salary. Teaching won't offer that, so we invariably end up short of good maths/science teachers. That can only lead to less maths/science classes being offered (or overloaded classes) or people teaching it who can barely pass it. It's a tough one...

Science classes in a lot of secondary schools are given to sports teachers because, apart from sports, many of them can't teach much else *apart from RE in a Christian school.
(which begs the question- why do schools employ so many bloody sports teachers??)

 

[Teriyakicat]

The other issue is that too few are prepared to do country placements and this is partly because it is so difficult to get back to the city as once you have a job in a metro school then they are loathe to move on - the exception of course is LSL or maternity leave and we are then back to it being only a temporary position.

In the "old" days all government teachers had to do country service at some point, because without it you could not receive permancy. If you did three years in a country school and you wanted to return to the city then you were given a school ahead of someone who hadn't. With the introduction of contract only based positions and schools having the licence to employ their own teachers rather than allocation by the education department means that other than slightly more money, there is no incentive to leave the metro area (the exception of course are schools close to the metro area and desired locations like Margaret river, Busselton, Broome etc.). I'm sure there are jobs out there but it's the location that doesn't appeal to some unfortunately.

I didn't realise that the country service requirement had changed. how are they getting teachers to teach in remote areas nowadays?
Is this the bleeding do-gooders all getting up in arms about their pampered kids not wanting to go out into the nasty remote areas because they can't have their weekly hair appointments and facials?

 

[Ross Prunster]

Science classes in a lot of secondary schools are given to sports teachers because, apart from sports, many of them can't teach much else *apart from RE in a Christian school.
(which begs the question- why do schools employ so many bloody sports teachers??)

Depends what minor they did and what Uni they went to. From UWA, many have a Sports Science degree before switching over to a Graduate Teaching degree. If from Edith Cowan, many of them can't teach much else cause they chose the easy route and did Health as their minor, which is a complete waste of time as if you teach PE you teach Health anyway. The smart ones did a MESS subject as their minor, if particularly smart, made sure it was Maths.
Why do they employ so many sport teachers? Cause they work their arses off, generally don't whinge about it, and for a heap of disenfranchised kids the subject is one of their few positive experiences at school.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Depends what minor they did and what Uni they went to. From UWA, many have a Sports Science degree before switching over to a Graduate Teaching degree. If from Edith Cowan, many of them can't teach much else cause they chose the easy route and did Health as their minor, which is a complete waste of time as if you teach PE you teach Health anyway. The smart ones did a MESS subject as their minor, if particularly smart, made sure it was Maths.
Why do they employ so many sport teachers? Cause they work their arses off, generally don't whinge about it, and for a heap of disenfranchised kids the subject is one of their few positive experiences at school.

I guess you could say the opposite applies for a heap of other kids who hate sport, think it's a waste of time, and wish it wasn't in the curriculum. I can certainly see both sides of this argument.

I wondered if it was (i.e. employment of so many) because the school is getting two for the price of one- both middle school science teachers (cheaper than specialist science teachers, maybe?) plus a sports teacher, whereas if they employ a science teacher, that's pretty much all they could teach. I also thought there might be a limit on how much time the sports teacher was allowed to spend outside- there are all sorts of stupid H&S rules, so I'd believe anything if you told me Having more teachers would spread the outside work over more bodies.

Oh- and thanks for the info on the UWA vs ECU uni courses. That makes sense.

 

[Ross Prunster]

I guess you could say the opposite applies for a heap of other kids who hate sport, think it's a waste of time, and wish it wasn't in the curriculum. I can certainly see both sides of this argument.

I wondered if it was (i.e. employment of so many) because the school is getting two for the price of one- both middle school science teachers (cheaper than specialist science teachers, maybe?) plus a sports teacher, whereas if they employ a science teacher, that's pretty much all they could teach. I also thought there might be a limit on how much time the sports teacher was allowed to spend outside- there are all sorts of stupid H&S rules, so I'd believe anything if you told me Having more teachers would spread the outside work over more bodies.

Oh- and thanks for the info on the UWA vs ECU uni courses. That makes sense.

For the ones who hate sport, based on a 26 period timetable, it's only twice a week they're wishing they weren't there. For the kid who doesn't have much success in the classroom its 16 times a week. From experience, the ones who flat out hate PE are few and far between. Most kids, some with some cajouling will have a go,and a lot of programs are catered for those that are less than enthusiastic about traditional sports.
Nothing about hours spent outside as far as I know, been doing it 18 years never heard a thing.
Re the 2 for 1, a science trained teacher can do the general science, Yr 7 - 10. plus they specialise in an upper school subject - Biology/Human Biol/Physic/Chem, whereas the PE teacher with the minor would only in theory be able to do the lower school. I think that if science needed to be taught, schools would employ the science teacher over a PE teacher, a science HOD would certainly be pushing that way.

 

[Teriyakicat]

For the ones who hate sport, based on a 26 period timetable, it's only twice a week they're wishing they weren't there. For the kid who doesn't have much success in the classroom its 16 times a week. From experience, the ones who flat out hate PE are few and far between. Most kids, some with some cajouling will have a go,and a lot of programs are catered for those that are less than enthusiastic about traditional sports.
Nothing about hours spent outside as far as I know, been doing it 18 years never heard a thing.
Re the 2 for 1, a science trained teacher can do the general science, Yr 7 - 10. plus they specialise in an upper school subject - Biology/Human Biol/Physic/Chem, whereas the PE teacher with the minor would only in theory be able to do the lower school. I think that if science needed to be taught, schools would employ the science teacher over a PE teacher, a science HOD would certainly be pushing that way.

Good point. Wish I'd thought of saying that when I've heard the whinging about sport. Sometimes it comes down to the group the kids are with, as to whether or not they enjoy it, same as enjoying other classes can depend on which teacher they have for that class. Hopefully the fact that many classes are now streamed and tailored for kids who find classwork a bit tough, this will improve attitudes toward schooling. I think a positive attitude of parents can help, as well. If a parent hated school as a kid, that can rub off onto their kids, whether intentional or not.

There probably isn't any problem with PE teachers doing outside hours- I had just wondered why there seemed to be lots of sports teachers teaching classes other than sport, whereas the school could've employed 3 less, brought in a FT science teacher, and have the remaining PE teachers teach sport full time... if that makes sense?

 

[Kram]

Former rugby league player Benny Elias' older brother taught us PE in High School for a couple of years, competent teacher but man that guy had some psychological issues..

 

[Forward Press]

My brother is an accountant- graduated many years ago, went back and studied to get his Masters while working full time (took him ages), but has not been able to find full time work. Rather, he has been on contracts that just keep rolling over into new contracts. Not sure if that's common in that line of work- it seems to be so in the teaching fraternity..

Very common in teaching now. Permanency is the holy grail that we'd probably murder a homeless person for. Note to police: I don't actually want to murder anyone. Unless they deserve it.

Ross Prunster has summed up the situation in teaching right now very accurately. Nothing more to add really. The move to IPS's has caused massive upheaval in the system.

 

[chunkylover]

PE teacher teaching science checking in. At our smallish school, of about the 12 mess subject teachers, i would say 8 of them have a PE teaching degree and are teaching their minor. No one complains, all just happy to have permanency I think!!

 

[Teriyakicat]

PE teacher teaching science checking in. At our smallish school, of about the 12 mess subject teachers, i would say 8 of them have a PE teaching degree and are teaching their minor. No one complains, all just happy to have permanency I think!!

That seems a high proportion, chunky. Is that fairly normal for a small school, do you think? Maybe for flexibility?

 

[Borry]

Well back on topic I am about to do a Meetup.com group organised pub crawl from the city to Freo. Will be expensive, and interesting given that most are over the age of 35.

 

[Kram]

Well back on topic I am about to do a Meetup.com group organised pub crawl from the city to Freo. Will be expensive, and interesting given that most are over the age of 35.

Have fun.

Someone should organise a Freo board meetup this season.

 

[chunkylover]

That seems a high proportion, chunky. Is that fairly normal for a small school, do you think? Maybe for flexibility?

Yeah pretty high. An ex admin probably thought if you can control them out on the oval with baseball bats, cricket bats etc then inside with 4 walls shouldnt be a problem. Plus our student numbers fluctuate so the flexibility timetabling wise is a plus

 

[gaskin]

Have fun.

Someone should organise a Freo board meetup this season.

Don't worry, I'm sure Harry will be onto something at some stage.

 

[Borry]

Is there any city more uptight on entry requirements based on drunkeness than Perth?

Sydney is not this bad.

I guess isolated places breed isolated minds.

Because it sure feels like it.

 

[ioppolo]

Been to the casino a fair few times, mostly Saturday nights. Geez they're random (the security at the front) with who they let in and don't when it comes to drunkeness.

 

[Righteo]

Been to the casino a fair few times, mostly Saturday nights. Geez they're random (the security at the front) with who they let in and don't when it comes to drunkeness.

Random honestly seems like the best way to describe it. For guys, that is. If you're a sexy lady you'll get in 9/10 times though unless staggering/spewing everywhere.

 

[Forward Press]

It also helps if you're Asian - maybe they assume you gamble heavily once inside - an assumption which is not incorrect, mind you.

 

[ioppolo]

Random honestly seems like the best way to describe it. For guys, that is. If you're a sexy lady you'll get in 9/10 times though unless staggering/spewing everywhere.

My girlfriend got in with an expired drivers licence. It that were me I would've been ushered away.

It also helps if you're Asian - maybe they assume you gamble heavily once inside - an assumption which is not incorrect, mind you.

Those Asians....always stacks of chips, of all amounts too. Some Asian got about 6 or 7 perfect pairs in a row on Blackjack once, his stack was massive.

 

[Righteo]

My girlfriend got in with an expired drivers licence. It that were me I would've been ushered away.



Those Asians....always stacks of chips, of all amounts too. Some Asian got about 6 or 7 perfect pairs in a row on Blackjack once, his stack was massive.

Tbh I'd agree with that. It's not like she went all Benjamin Button after her license expired or anything.

 

[drummond2fevola]

I somehow managed to get into the Cas after mad Monday last year, I got declined at one entrance so we went around the other side and got in.

 

[ioppolo]

That's all well and good but the expiry date is there for a reason after all.

 

[drummond2fevola]

Aren't they lenient within a certain time frame? 3-6 months or so?