The Phenomenon that is AFL in Melbourne

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telsor

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I think you are right that on any measure Melbourne comes out ahead on crowd participation compared to other cities around Australia weather it be Theatre,Museums,Eating out, Pubs and Clubbing and all the main sports Cricket,Basketball,Soccer,FI GP, Moto GP and Horse Racing this hasen't happened over night but has built up over many decades.
Even the American Hot Gospeler Billy Graham got 140,000 to the MCG!

Maybe having a successful Olympic Games so early on helped the process as well plus having the venues to hold big crowds.?
I have no idea of what the original spark was...perhaps it was the olympics...but it's clearly been something that has just had an upwards cycle over decades to get where it is now.

The major events are related, but are also a different matter....The government has, since Kennett I believe, had a very serious program to attract and retain those events, and with them the infrastructure that goes with the big tourist crowds that come along with that. Big hotels, for example, are built in the knowledge that while vacancy rates might be lower than would usually justify them, major events will fill them for a significant portion of the year. There is also a lot of people who work on these things, both at higher levels and the more 'grunt' stuff....Comm games in GC imported about 80% of security from interstate for example...In Melbourne they're just there ready to go.

It's why in threads about moving the GF, I often raise questions about the infrastructure...It doesn't just appear out of nowhere for the event, you either need the high base level Melbourne does, or a LOT of preparation, planning, and quite likely some offsets (move that big conference to another week..or another city.. because we need the hotel rooms, etc.).
 
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telsor

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cost of things is also favourable compared to other cities
Again, it's probably a cause/effect thing.

Partly volume providing lower cost per unit, partly competition forcing those savings (and more?) to be passed on.

With AFL though, it's also because the AFL Members means Vic clubs have to compete against the league for members, and thus can't charge as much as they might like to.
 

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Our Game

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I have no idea of what the original spark was...perhaps it was the olympics...but it's clearly been something that has just had an upwards cycle over decades to get where it is now.

The major events are related, but are also a different matter....The government has, since Kennett I believe, had a very serious program to attract and retain those events, and with them the infrastructure that goes with the big tourist crowds that come along with that. Big hotels, for example, are built in the knowledge that while vacancy rates might be lower than would usually justify them, major events will fill them for a significant portion of the year. There is also a lot of people who work on these things, both at higher levels and the more 'grunt' stuff....Comm games in GC imported about 80% of security from interstate for example...In Melbourne they're just there ready to go.

It's why in threads about moving the GF, I often raise questions about the infrastructure...It doesn't just appear out of nowhere for the event, you either need the high base level Melbourne does, or a LOT of preparation, planning, and quite likely some offsets (move that big conference to another week..or another city.. because we need the hotel rooms, etc.).
The other thing about Australian Football in Melbourne historically right from the start of the VFA in 1877 AF drew very big crowds considering the population at that time.
In fact in 1886 South Melbourne V Geelong drew 34,121 to the Lake Oval and there were other crowds of 8000,10,000,12,000 and 16,000 throughout the season.The Bloods seemed to get the best crowds overall in that era.

Melbourne does know how to run large events very successfully and have for a very long time.
It also has the infrastructure indoor and outdoor to accommodate very large events that no other city in Australia has and a very good transport network like a dedicated train line to Flemington Race Course and the Royal Show Grounds...
 

telsor

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Melbourne does know how to run large events very successfully and have for a very long time.
Through work I've met a number of the people (really teams) who run these things, and it's impressive just how good they are, both individually and collectively, and part of that comes from just masses of experience.
 

Gigantor

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The other thing about Australian Football in Melbourne historically right from the start of the VFA in 1877 AF drew very big crowds considering the population at that time.
In fact in 1886 South Melbourne V Geelong drew 34,121 to the Lake Oval and there were other crowds of 8000,10,000,12,000 and 16,000 throughout the season.The Bloods seemed to get the best crowds overall in that era.
Actually, even before the establishment of the VFA, while it was still a fun kick around in the local parks, by the mid 1860s crowds of 5,000+ were already gathering to watch games.
 

RedV3x

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it's clearly been something that has just had an upwards cycle over decades to get where it is now
Clearly you don't know the history of football.
Australian Football in Melbourne was the first to create community football with teams, leagues and championships.
As such, football games created enormous interest and problems.
One of very first problems was pitch invasions from the large crowds that gathered.
 

Our Game

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Clearly you don't know the history of football.
Australian Football in Melbourne was the first to create community football with teams, leagues and championships.
As such, football games created enormous interest and problems.
One of very first problems was pitch invasions from the large crowds that gathered.
Not the first on its own the SAFA/SANFL was formed a couple of weeks before the VFA in May 1877 and the first inter colony match was between Victoria and South Australia in 1879 at the East Melbourne Cricket ground.
The final score was Victoria (represented by the VFA) 7.14 to South Australia 0.3. The match was attended by more than 10,000 people
 

NoobPie

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Not the first on its own the SAFA/SANFL was formed a couple of weeks before the VFA in May 1877 and the first inter colony match was between Victoria and South Australia in 1879 at the East Melbourne Cricket ground.
The final score was Victoria (represented by the VFA) 7.14 to South Australia 0.3. The match was attended by more than 10,000 people
That was almost two decades after the first community clubs were formed in Victoria though
 

RedV3x

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That was almost two decades after the first community clubs were formed in Victoria though
I don't know what that remark is supposed to mean. There are many exmples of big crowds etc.
"In 1888, a touring British rugby team played 19 games of Australian rules against clubs in Tasmania, Victoria and South Australia. The tourists, who had been hastily trained in the local code, played Carlton in front of 25,000 people" -Wiki
 

NoobPie

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I don't know what that remark is supposed to mean. There are many exmples of big crowds etc.
"In 1888, a touring British rugby team played 19 games of Australian rules against clubs in Tasmania, Victoria and South Australia. The tourists, who had been hastily trained in the local code, played Carlton in front of 25,000 people" -Wiki
It means you are not taking your time understanding what people are posting before being affronted and responding

I was referring to OurGame's point the SANFL formed at the same time as the VFA. The point was that community clubs were playing under looser organisation for a couple of decades before
 
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RedV3x

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I was referring to OurGame's point the SANFL formed at the same time as the VFA. The point was that community clubs were playing under loser organisation for a couple of decades before
What is the loser organisation that you are referring to?
"for a couple of decades before" before what ?
What point are you trying to make w.r.t. football starting earlier in Melbourne than in Adelaide?
The original discusion was about crowds.
 

kranky al

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Good stuff, but when looking at footy in Melbourne, apart from the ground size, what also needs to be taken into account is that every year there will be at least 3, often more, Melbourne teams in contention. This will ensure that the averages stay up every year.
I'm not sure how that can be accounted for.
Also doesnt take into account that you can see your team at home somewhere around 6-8 times more a season compared to interstaters

if west coast and freo played 18 games a season at home thats another 500000 through the gates.
 

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Our Game

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What is the loser organisation that you are referring to?
"for a couple of decades before" before what ?
What point are you trying to make w.r.t. football starting earlier in Melbourne than in Adelaide?
The original discusion was about crowds.
I think he ment loose arrangements not actual structured comps Ballarat and Bendigo had those sort teams playing each other also before 1877.
 

telsor

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Also doesnt take into account that you can see your team at home somewhere around 6-8 times more a season compared to interstaters

if west coast and freo played 18 games a season at home thats another 500000 through the gates.
Just how many games do you think Vic clubs get at home?

Richmond was originally planned to play 14 games at the MCG in 2020 for example (up from 13 the previous year). Only 2 (1) more than you play at your home ground, and nowhere near the 18 you seem to think we get.
 

kranky al

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Just how many games do you think Vic clubs get at home?

Richmond was originally planned to play 14 games at the MCG in 2020 for example (up from 13 the previous year). Only 2 (1) more than you play at your home ground, and nowhere near the 18 you seem to think we get.
Allow me to rephrase that - by at home i meant melbourne. I should have been more clear.

17 games in 2019.

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telsor

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Allow me to rephrase that - by at home i meant melbourne. I should have been more clear.

17 games in 2019.
a) Still not 18.
b) Marvel games aren't home games. Curious how when it comes to WCE, anything other than a perfect home game 'isn't at home' (see GC games), but for Vic clubs, anything in the general vicinity is 'near enough'.
 

kranky al

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a) Still not 18.
b) Marvel games aren't home games. Curious how when it comes to WCE, anything other than a perfect home game 'isn't at home' (see GC games), but for Vic clubs, anything in the general vicinity is 'near enough'.
Wow

i mean perth is 4300 km away from the gold coast

Marvel is what? Ten minutes from the mcg

but yeah i didnt frame that correctly - richmond fans can attend 17 games in 2019

eagles fans (as long as they are members) 11
 

gaelictiogar

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There is a massive difference - The AFL gets comfortably more volume of viewers over a year than the NRL.

Anyone with basic knowledge of statistics will tell you that aggregating and comparing averages that are based on different denominators (eg 2 hours versus 3 hours) is a nonsense. This is very basic

The AFL has a comfortable advantage in terms of TV ratings. No where near as much as every other metric but still comfortable....which is why it gets comfortably more money every time
Exactly. The money men are not fooled. The AFL deal is bigger because the audience is bigger.

I like RL. Enjoy it. However facts are facts and money talks.
 

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