Competitions Planning The Pieman 2017 (Premier Edition)

[grassman75]

In again, was fun last year



I don't see that as an issue, those on the ball picked that Zaine would be used up forward and reaped the benefits. Similar with Dunkley earlier on

The bigger issue is injuries, hard to see those coming and can really screw your team until the next trade period. In SuperCoach you can be rid of them that week, in Pieman there's only 2 trade weeks a year. If you wanted to do something, maybe only your top 4 scorers each week count - allows you to cover an injury, and maybe be a bit riskier with selecting someone who may not play every week

I like this - but could you do it with 6 players (5 scoring and one bench player who you could bring in in case of injury only. Once injured player is back, player 6 returns to bench. Wouldn't be automatic, players would have to nominate that they are "activating their sub" like a banker and it would only be for injuries, not players being dropped

 

[Sharkey66]

After reading boydshow post i was going to suggest the exact same thing. An emergency or a bench player to come in for a long term injury or something like that. Bench player possibly must be in for a minimum amount of weeks or something.

I like this - but could you do it with 6 players (5 scoring and one bench player who you could bring in in case of injury only. Once injured player is back, player 6 returns to bench. Wouldn't be automatic, players would have to nominate that they are "activating their sub" like a banker and it would only be for injuries, not players being dropped

 

[bontshow]

Interesting suggestion. I'll give it some thought, but again it would probably need a software rebuild to do it!

Nah leave it then, lots of great ideas but keeping it simple always wins out

 

[dogwatch]

I like this - but could you do it with 6 players (5 scoring and one bench player who you could bring in in case of injury only. Once injured player is back, player 6 returns to bench. Wouldn't be automatic, players would have to nominate that they are "activating their sub" like a banker and it would only be for injuries, not players being dropped

After reading boydshow post i was going to suggest the exact same thing. An emergency or a bench player to come in for a long term injury or something like that. Bench player possibly must be in for a minimum amount of weeks or something.

Nah leave it then, lots of great ideas but keeping it simple always wins out

Grassman's variation might be much easier to do. I'll investigate. (Sort of sounds familiar ... did we discuss it last year?)

Anyway it looks like we have ample interest for another year, so it'll be on. Thanks for all the EOIs, no need for anyone else to respond - from the straw poll so far it seems like we will have a good field of entries again.

Not sure of all the JLT dates but the pie-season launch will (ideally) be just after the final game in that series, assuming that leaves enough time for everyone to get their entries in before Rd 1.

 

[bontshow]

Not sure of all the JLT dates but the pie-season launch will (ideally) be just after the final game in that series, assuming that leaves enough time for everyone to get their entries in before Rd 1.

WB final JLT game - Thursday March 9
Final JLT game - Sunday March 12
Round 1 first game - Thursday March 23
WB round 1 game - Friday March 24

 

[dogwatch]

WB final JLT game - Thursday March 9
Final JLT game - Sunday March 12
Round 1 first game - Thursday March 23
WB round 1 game - Friday March 24

Thanks. It's tight but I just noticed our final JLT game is actually 9 March (I'm a bit slow tonight) so that's two full weeks before our Rd 1 game.
I'll probably go for 10 March for the Pieman launch.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Something else I was wondering... why Pieman?

 

[lachy]

Great work dogwatch

Yes I will be in

 

[Gronkd]

I'm in

 

[dogwatch]

Something else I was wondering... why Pieman?

Named after our all-time leading goalkicker, Simon "The Pieman" Beasley.

 

[LordC]

in

 

[Northern Dogs]

Wondered what this was all about. Sounds fun, so I'll give it a go.

 

[Th3 DoG FaTh3R]

There's a bit of work in doing the software updates for that. If lots of people want it I'll look into it but would it really get used that much?

Probably not that often but could add an extra layer of tactical gameplay.

 

[X_box_X]

I'll have a crack

 

[Fossie 32]

Me too pls

 

[dogwatch]

OK, here's my thinking ...

You pick 5 players pre-season, as usual, but you also get to pick 2 bench players.

At any time before any match you can swap in one or both of your bench players (you'd do this in the weekly Pieman match thread - same place you declare your banker). You can do this every week if you like, swapping players between your match group of 5 players and your bench. Obviously you only get scores for whoever your match group is in any given week.

Bankers operate as usual (you get 11 to use up in the H&A rounds, plus one for every final). You can only use one per week.

The downside is that if I'm going to do this you only get one trade period for the year (approx half-way through the H&A rounds, maybe when we have the bye). My rationale is that Trade Period is a fair bit of work for me and adds considerable complexity to my spreadsheets. So I'm prepared to do a bit of extra work each week if I can ditch one of the trade periods. In theory you won't need the trade period quite so much anyway because you have reserve players to cover for players with long term injuries, being dropped to the VFL or being suspended.
However I'll keep one trade period as a tactical move mid-year if your team isn't going so well.

How does that sound?

 

[bontshow]

How does that sound?

Personally I like it, but the concern is people who just want to set their team and forget it will be more disadvantaged

 

[dogwatch]

Personally I like it, but the concern is people who just want to set their team and forget it will be more disadvantaged

Yes, it's a good point. There's an obvious tension (obvious to me at least) between the needs of those who want to tinker every week / be very much hands-on and the needs of those who want to set and forget (also those whose interest wanes half-way through the season when they are near the bottom of the table). For example, while I've introduced bankers for the former group I've also had to introduce default bankers for the latter so they don't miss out.

What I've tried to do is steer a middle course so it offers something for both types but this proposal may tilt it toward the hands-on types.

Grassman and Sharkey suggested you had to have a player on the LTI list before being able to activate a bench player, ie you can't just swap them any time you like. That might be worth revisiting because I could activate a bench player on behalf of the set-and-forget types in that situation so they don't lose out too much tactically. The problem is that sometimes the club does not declare a player on the LTI list because the club has no need to (ie no rookies it wants to promote). So we'd need to have our own LTI list for Pieman purposes - e.g. anyone estimated by the club to be out for 6 weeks or more (for any reason). And the replacement player would have to go back to the bench as soon as the LTI player was declared fit to play again.

... I think you've talked me around to this approach!

However if it's only for LTI and equivalents I might allow 3 bench players instead of 2. Still only one trade period though.

 

[TempletonTheRat]

Yes, it's a good point. There's an obvious tension (obvious to me at least) between the needs of those who want to tinker every week / be very much hands-on and the needs of those who want to set and forget (also those whose interest wanes half-way through the season when they are near the bottom of the table). For example, while I've introduced bankers for the former group I've also had to introduce default bankers for the latter so they don't miss out.

What I've tried to do is steer a middle course so it offers something for both types but this proposal may tilt it toward the hands-on types.

Grassman and Sharkey suggested you had to have a player on the LTI list before being able to activate a bench player, ie you can't just swap them any time you like. That might be worth revisiting because I could activate a bench player on behalf of the set-and-forget types in that situation so they don't lose out too much tactically. The problem is that sometimes the club does not declare a player on the LTI list because the club has no need to (ie no rookies it wants to promote). So we'd need to have our own LTI list for Pieman purposes - e.g. anyone estimated by the club to be out for 6 weeks or more (for any reason). And the replacement player would have to go back to the bench as soon as the LTI player was declared fit to play again.

... I think you've talked me around to this approach!

However if it's only for LTI and equivalents I might allow 3 bench players instead of 2. Still only one trade period though.

Here is how I see it DW

Option 1 - "full fantasy mode" - pick 5 in side + 2 bench players - 1 bench player nominated a Emergency and fills in if any of the 5 do not play for any reason. Team owner can swap bench players into side (or change which bench player is the E) on any given week. 1 trade period for the year
* hands on owners can fiddle as much as they want
* set and forget are covered by the Emergency

Option 2 - "Injury mode" - pick 5 in side + 3 bench players. Bench players are nominated as Emergency 1, E2 & E3 - If one of the 5 in side is injured then the E is activated. 1 trade period for the year.
* this brings the complexity of "what is an Injury?" - the club is becoming more and more cagey on 1 - whether a player is even injured and 2 - how long they will be out. Where does General Soreness fit in the category?

Option 3 - no changes to current rules.

hopefully this is similar to those you have outlined with the addition of the Emergency to help out the set and forget players.

Part of the tactics of the game are how much risk you take on fringe players and option 1 takes this away to a fair degree: Perhaps it brings new tactics. It also brings the ability for team owners to shoot themselves in the foot by swapping out a high scorer for a low scorer.
I'm not exactly sure how complex your handicap algorithm is but I would assume you take into account the expected games a player might play. So how would you account for this with having bench players etc.

I don't mind either option. It just a matter of how much work it is for you to maintain.

 

[The Original Swooper]

Dw. Love your work. Love Pieman ( even though I suck at it). I'd lean towards the bench players scenario and 1 trade period. I hear you re the conflict, but at the risk of peeving some folks, surely the workability of the game should lean towards ( or favour) the folks that take 10 minutes a week to adjust their picks. Has a set and forget type player ever won it ? I think you are being too magnaminous in considering the concerns of those that "drop off half way through the season".

 

[Sharkey66]

although I suggested an injury clause, it may be a little to complex and time consuming to police and implement. option 1 makes a lot of sense to me and would be my preferred way to go.

 

[bontshow]

Grassman and Sharkey suggested you had to have a player on the LTI list before being able to activate a bench player

I don't think that does enough to address the original concern, that injuries can decimate your Pieman team
It was easy last year to have 3 players of your 5 out injured without necessarily being on the LTI

Maybe we make it as simple as you pick 6 players, and only the 4 highest scoring ones count

It changes tactics, but maybe in a good way as people take more risks and we see more excitement and change in the standings when unexpected goal kickers arise

 

[Bont2Bruce]

I don't think that does enough to address the original concern, that injuries can decimate your Pieman team
It was easy last year to have 3 players of your 5 out injured without necessarily being on the LTI

Maybe we make it as simple as you pick 6 players, and only the 4 highest scoring ones count

It changes tactics, but maybe in a good way as people take more risks and we see more excitement and change in the standings when unexpected goal kickers arise

Something along these lines has merit in my opinion.

 

[Kermit]

I'm in thanks DW

 

[grassman75]

I don't think that does enough to address the original concern, that injuries can decimate your Pieman team
It was easy last year to have 3 players of your 5 out injured without necessarily being on the LTI

Maybe we make it as simple as you pick 6 players, and only the 4 highest scoring ones count

It changes tactics, but maybe in a good way as people take more risks and we see more excitement and change in the standings when unexpected goal kickers arise

I really like this and I think it makes it easier for DW. I would say 1 trade period mid year, don't think you need one at the end. 11 bankers, with the very real risk that your banker won't be in your top 4!