Competitions The Pieman 2023

[dogwatch]

Season 12 of the Pieman is upon us!

There is only one rule change for 2023.

Following a healthy off-season debate about champs and chumps the bonus for selecting five different players who all score at least one goal (a feat henceforth called a "chump") will increase from a flat 20 points to 40% of the pieman points earned by that entry for the game (rounded down).

[NB: There is also a special provision for anyone who has posted that they want to play but forgets their selection for the first round or two. See the bit in italics below. More explanation later.]

For those who have never played before it's pretty simple:

• You pick 5 WB players each week (and it can be a totally different 5 from week to week if you want)
• You score points when they kick a goal.

A little more explanation of how it works:

• Everything happens in this thread
• I publish goalkicking handicaps for each player for each round (the higher the handicap number, the less likely he is to kick goals)
• Each time one of your players kicks a goal you accrue points equal to that player's handicap
• The highest total points each week wins the "Kelvin" for that round
• The winner of the comp overall ("The Pieman") is the one who has most points accrued at the end of the year, including finals
• If you like you can use two or even three of your five picks on the one player, e.g. 3x Bontempelli plus 2x Naughton, or 2x Ugle-Hagan + Treloar, Lobb and Scott
• If you have selected five different players and each of them kicks at least one goal this is called a Chump. For that you get a 40% point bonus on your entire team's score.
• There are also provisions for substitutes if any of your players are withdrawn, or if you forget to put your entry in - so you are guaranteed 5 picks each week. See the full rules below for details.
• You can use these substitute/carryover rules to have a "set-and-forget" team for the whole season if you want to play but can't be bothered posting a new team each week.

Here's a link to last year's thread for anyone interested in how it works (or to re-live the season if you were a participant).

No need to do anything until teams are announced for the first round. You simply enter by posting your five picks in this thread before the game starts.

You can also join after the first round has been completed but you don't get any points for any rounds you've missed before you joined get a randomly generated team for that round (also available for round 2).

I will generate a random team for you for each round you've missed (even after the game has been played) just to keep you in the race. Random teams don't normally do all that well (just ask RandomDog) but they usually pick up a few points which is better than getting a bagel. The only limit on it is that any such random team can't retrospectively win the Kelvin (in fact their score will max out at 90% of the Kelvin winning score).

 

[dogwatch]

PIEMAN HISTORY AND PAST WINNERS

As nearly everybody would know by now the Pieman is named after the great Footscray (Bulldogs) great full forward of the 1980s Simon "The Pieman" Beasley.

He has kicked more goals for the club (575) than any other player. While Kelvin Templeton's 15 goals against St Kilda is the most in any one game Simon Beasley has the next four best game tallies (3 x 12 goals and 1 x 11). He won the club goalkicking award for 7 consecutive years from 1982 to 1988 and he won the Coleman Medal with 93 goals in H&A games in 1985 in an era of great full forwards. He went on to kick 105 goals that year because he kicked another 12 in the finals. He debuted as a mature player from WA, aged 25 and retired at the age of 32 after 154 games.

Kelvin Templeton is no less decorated but in different ways. He won the club goalkicking 5 times (1976-1980), kicked 15 in a game (1978), kicked 118 in a season (1978) the most by any Bulldog player. By the time he transferred to Melbourne late in his injury-shortened career he had kicked a club record of 494. It's still the fourth highest for the club behind Beasley, Brad Johnson

Brad Johnson

Age

47

Ht

182cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

14.1

5star

HB

5.6

4star

M

5.9

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.5

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.8

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.6

3star

and Chris Grant. Templeton was also a club captain (1982), a club best and fairest (1980) and a Brownlow Medallist (1980). He played 143 games for the Bulldogs and managed only another 34 games and 99 goals for Melbourne before retiring at the age of 28.

So we've named the weekly highest score in the Pieman competition "The Kelvin" in his honour.

The Original Pieman

This is not really footy but it's an interesting piece of Australian trivia while we are talking about Piemen.

William Francis King (1807–1873), better known as ‘The Flying Pieman’, accomplished a series of bizarre athletic feats during the 1840s. King came to New South Wales from his native London in 1829 and worked as a schoolmaster and a private tutor before getting a job as a barman. Around 1834, he went into business as a pieman, selling his wares around Hyde Park and Circular Quay. Here, became known for his practice of offering pies to passengers boarding the Parramatta steamer and then running the 30 kilometre distance to the boat’s terminus and offering any unsold stock to the same passengers as they disembarked. Between 1842 and 1851, he completed numerous feats and challenges around Sydney, the Hunter Valley, and later, Brisbane. These included walking 2630 kilometres, mainly in the rain, in 39 days; racing the Windsor to Sydney mail coach on foot and twice beating it; carrying a 32 kilogram dog from Campbelltown to Sydney in under seven hours, and hauling an even weightier goat from Sydney to Parramatta in similar time. He walked from Brisbane to Ipswich carrying a 45 kilogram wooden pole and beating the mail coach by an hour; and in Maitland in 1847 had himself horsewhipped to spur him on in the midst of a ten-day, 402 kilometre walking challenge. He returned to Sydney in the 1850s and became a noticeable street character, wandering the streets, selling pies, and issuing proclamations to passers-by. His distinctive attire is said to have included crimson knee-breeches, white stockings, a staff, and a top hat to which either streamers or paper tickets were attached. He died, destitute, at the Liverpool Asylum in 1873, aged sixty-six.

This photo was taken a few years before he died.

Source of photo and text:

William Francis King, 'The Flying Pieman', c. 1869

William Francis King (1807–1873), better known as ‘The Flying Pieman’, accomplished a series of bizarre athletic feats during the 1840s. King came to New South Wales from his native London in 1829 and worked as a schoolmaster and a private tutor before getting a job as a barman. Around 1834, he...

www.portrait.gov.au

There is also a traditional bush dance called The Flying Pieman, possibly named after this bloke. And there was even an eponymous "Flying Piemen" bush band in Melbourne in the the 1970s and 80s. Some of you might have even heard them play.


The Pieman Honour Roll
Here is the list of winners since we started in 2012. You used to get a pie 'n sauce badge under your avatar if you won the Pieman but I'm not sure that happens any more. I had one for a while but somewhere along the line it disappeared. Is that something we could re-introduce mods?

• 2012 josh the gent
• 2013 grassman75
• 2014 dogwatch
• 2015 lachy
• 2016 StringyDog
• 2017 jaxie1
• 2018 X_box_X
• 2019 Snarls Barkley
• 2020 Charlie Bucket
• 2021 Wocka
• 2022 TiAn_

Nobody has won it twice yet. Could this be the year? I think all of those people are still active on this board.

 

[dogwatch]

PIEMAN 2023 RULES

A. How to Enter

1. Anyone on BF can enter, even people from other boards
2. You enter by making 5 selections of Western Bulldogs players in the Pieman 2022 thread.
3. Those 5 selections can be five different players, or you can pick the same player as many as three times (no more than that though). So the legitimate combinations are 5x1, 2+1+1+1, 2+2+1, 3+1+1 and 3+2.
4. Entries must be lodged with a post in the designated Pieman thread (ie this thread) by match start time.
5. You may change your entry but you must do it with a new post, not by amending your original post. It’s too hard to track whether an entry is legit if I allow edits. It also makes the admin harder.
6. Late in the season (from about Rd 16) you may choose to PM your selections to me instead of posting them here. They still need to be PM'd by match start time of course. That way your selections remain secret until after the game starts. It means that others can't match your selections to stay in front if it's neck and neck in the comp. (Not that anyone here would try to do that!)

B. How Your Score is Calculated and How Winners are Decided

1. Players are allocated a handicap. The more likely the player is to score a goal the lower his handicap. The handicaps are revised according to form and team selections every week and published in the Pieman 2023 thread.
2. Handicaps may be published early in the week to give you a chance to contemplate this week's entry but the handicaps will be provisional until the WB team is announced. The handicap list will be culled and handicaps finalised after the club's team selection announcement. While the aim is not to change any of the provisional handicaps I do reserve the right to adjust any handicap immediately after team selection (mainly if there are some selection surprises affecting our forwards). I'll post a message here if I do make any changes.
3. Players listed as emergencies will also be given a handicap in case they become a late inclusion.
4. You score Pieman points every time one of your players kicks a goal. The number of points you get per goal is equal to the player’s handicap value for that game. So for example if you have Tim English and at the end of the game (with a hypothetical handicap of 13) he has kicked 4 goals then you will get 52 points. However if you had him doubled up you get 104 points, or 156 points if you tripled up.
5. Your weekly Pieman score is the sum of Pieman points accumulated by all 5 of your players in that game, plus any bonus points earned (see below).
6. A bonus of is awarded if you have five different players and each of them kicks at least one goal. To be quite clear: you are NOT eligible for the bonus if your five picks include any player more than once. The bonus is 40% of your whole team's score (rounded down if rounding is necessary).
7. The entry with the most Pieman Points for the week is the winner of the Kelvin for that week.
8. The entry with the most Pieman Points accumulated over the entire season including any finals is the winner of the Pieman for the year.
9. If two or more entries have the same number of total points there is no tie-breaker for the Kelvin or the Pieman. The award is shared.

C. Anomalies: Forgotten Entries, Set & Forget Entries, Substitutes, Forgotten Handicaps

1. If you don’t put a new entry in for any given game you automatically get your five picks from the previous game. This is called your default team. This allows you to operate your entry as a “Set-and-Forget” if you don’t want to be bothered posting a new team every week. It also covers you if you genuinely forget to enter your team before the first bounce.
2. If you do opt for the set-and-forget approach it is likely that the make-up of your team will gradually change over the course of the year due to the occasional need for a substitute player. If one of your original players returns to the senior side you do NOT automatically get him back in your team - you carry on with whoever the substitutes are. You will have to intervene by posting a new team if you want to reset your team. You can do this at any time during the season.
3. If any of your default players from the previous game aren’t playing or if one or more of your picks is a late withdrawal and you don’t update your entry before match start time you get a substitute player.
4. If one of your selected players starts the game as the medical substitute you will automatically be allocated a Pieman substitute from the selected side of 22 as described below, even if the medical substitute ends up playing substantial game time. For consistency and simplicity this is not discretionary - you do not have the option of naming or retaining the medical substitute in your team.
5. Substitute players are allocated from the final selected side of 22 as follows:
   • If you have selected a player multiple times (2x or 3x) and he doesn't play then you only get one player as the substitute for that player and your substitute has the same multiple. For example you don't get three different players if your 3x multiple doesn't play. You get one player as a 3x.
   • Your substitute is the player not already in your team who scored the most goals last game (previous round)
   • If there is more than one such player on the same number of goals it is the one with the greater handicap value UNLESS we are deciding between players who kicked zero goals last game, in which case it’s the one with the lowest handicap value. (Yes it sounds weird but there’s a rationale for that.)
   • If they are still equal on handicap value it is the one who has scored most goals over the season so far
   • If they remain equal after all of the above it is the one with the lowest jumper number
   • Your substitutes for any selected multiples (3x then 2x) are determined first, then the single (1x) selections.
   • If the substitute is required in Round 1 (ie where there is no prior game) or if for some reason the above method doesn’t deliver a valid substitute then it’s the player who is NOT in your team who has the lowest handicap value, and then if a further tie-breaker is required it's the one with the lower jumper number
   • We repeat the same substitute selection procedure in any given round for as many times as you need to add substitute players.
6. [Special provision for 2023] If you forgot or otherwise failed to put your entry in for the first round or first two rounds there is obviously no previous week's entry that would constitute your default team. If you let me know you want to be in the comp I will generate a random team for you after the event from the 22 who played. Random teams don't normally do very well but they typically register a few points so it keeps your season tally ticking over and it means that despite missing the start you have less ground to catch up over the season. The only provisos are:
   
   • (1) you cannot win the Kelvin with one of these retrospectively chosen teams
   • (2) you cannot receive more than 90% (rounded down) of the points scored by the Kelvin winner that week. If your random team would have scored more than that it is simply capped at 90%.
   • (3) The offer only applies to Rounds 1 and 2. You can still join the comp after that but you will only get a retrospective random team for the first two weeks.
7. The aim will be to publish a new handicap list each week, although once the season has settled down the weekly variations will probably only be minor. However if for any reason the handicaps aren’t published by match start time (unlikely) the players will retain the same handicaps they had in their previous senior game. If a player is playing his first game for the season AND no handicaps have been published he will be allocated a default handicap of 20.
8. The published results are generally final but if you think there’s been an error or some other anomaly let me know and I’ll consider whether a correction is justified.
9. If any situation arises that is not covered by these rules I’ll try to resolve it within the spirit of the competition.
10. Similarly if it becomes apparent that a rule change or a new rule is required during the season (hopefully not!) I'll try to do that with minimal impact and within the spirit of the comp.

D. Fun

• Be competitive but make sure you have fun! That’s what it's for.

 

[dogwatch]

Special Arrangements for Rounds 1 and 2

Unfortunately I'm going to be interstate with only a smart phone to stay in touch for the first two rounds. Yes, It's a bummer especially for the season kick-off, but it can't be helped.

So the following will happen:

• I will post Round 1 handicaps for the entire list in the next day or two, i.e. many days before the official side for Round 1 is announced.
• You can enter any time (and as per the rules you can change your selection right up to match start time, as long as it's with a new post and not an edit).
• I won't be able to calculate or post results for Round 1 until I get back.
• I will try to post new handicaps for Round 2 when teams are announced for that game but if for any reason I can't do that we'll just use the same handicaps we had for Rd 1.
• I hope to have all results posted and up to date for Rds 1-2 by the evening of Tuesday 28 March.

My absence is also why I'm being a bit lenient with people who forget to enter in Round 1 (or both Rds 1 and 2). As per the rules I will generate a random team for you after the game has been played as long as you let me know you want to be part of the 2023 competition.


It would therefore help if you could do a quick post here to let me know you intend to be in the 2023 Pieman. So even if you forget to enter I can create a random Rd 1 team for you. Just post "I'm in".

That will also help me know whether more prompting is required to remind all the Pieman regulars. I'm aiming for 40+ entries again.



Hopefully by Round 3 the Pieman operations will be completely back to normal.

 

[dogwatch]

They're in (so far):

dogwatch​

Randomdog​

Shacf501​

Floridog​

TiAn​

Charlie Bucket​

Bulldog rick​

Fossie 32​

Struggle​

BulldogMuscle​

jaxie1​

chez_ferret​

lateniter​

LordC​

SayerTheCreator​

Dogs_R_Us​

Dannnnnnnnnnnn​

Brian Perrin​

 

[Shacf501]

Season 12 of the Pieman is upon us!

There is only one rule change for 2023.

Following a healthy off-season debate about champs and chumps the bonus for selecting five different players who all score at least one goal (a feat henceforth called a "chump") will increase from a flat 20 points to 40% of the pieman points earned by that entry for the game (rounded down).

[NB: There is also a special provision for anyone who has posted that they want to play but forgets their selection for the first round or three. See the bit in italics below. More explanation later.]

For those who have never played before it's pretty simple:

• You pick 5 WB players each week (and it can be a totally different 5 from week to week if you want)
• You score points when they kick a goal.

A little more explanation of how it works:

• Everything happens in this thread
• I publish goalkicking handicaps for each player for each round (the higher the handicap number, the less likely he is to kick goals)
• Each time one of your players kicks a goal you accrue points equal to that player's handicap
• The highest total points each week wins the "Kelvin" for that round
• The winner of the comp overall ("The Pieman") is the one who has most points accrued at the end of the year, including finals
• If you like you can use two or even three of your five picks on the one player, e.g. 3x Bontempelli plus 2x Naughton, or 2x Ugle-Hagan + Treloar, Lobb and Scott
• If you have selected five different players and each of them kicks at least one goal this is called a Chump. For that you get a 40% point bonus on your entire team's score.
• There are also provisions for substitutes if any of your players are withdrawn, or if you forget to put your entry in - so you are guaranteed 5 picks each week. See the full rules below for details.
• You can use these substitute/carryover rules to have a "set-and-forget" team for the whole season if you want to play but can't be bothered posting a new team each week.

Here's a link to last year's thread for anyone interested in how it works (or to re-live the season if you were a participant).

No need to do anything until teams are announced for the first round. You simply enter by posting your five picks in this thread before the game starts.

You can also join after the first round has been completed but you don't get any points for any rounds you've missed before you joined.

However if you have indicated before the season starts that you want to play but forget to make selections for the first round or three I will generate a random team for you for each round you've missed (even after the game has been played) just to keep you in the race. Random teams don't normally do all that well (just ask RandomDog) but they usually pick up a few points which is better than getting a bagel. The only limit on it is that any such random team can't retrospectively win the Kelvin (in fact their score will max out at 90% of the Kelvin winning score).

Thanks you for running this again! It's great fun and makes the game all the more interesting!

 

[dogwatch]

I'm in for '23!

And so is RandomDog

 

[Floridog]

I'm in

 

[TiAn_]

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Onya DW. Count me in

 

[Bulldog rick]

I'm in

 

[Fossie 32]

 

[Struggle]

 

[BulldogMuscle]

 

[jaxie1]

Me Tooooooo

 

[chez_ferret]

Let's go!

 

[lateniter]

Thanks again, dogwatch.
I'm in.

 

[LordC]

I’m in


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dogwatch]

PIEMAN HANDICAPS ROUND 1 v MELBOURNE

Here are the handicaps for Round 1. Because I have to post them so early for Round 1 (as explained above) and don't yet know who will be in the final team I've provided handicaps for the entire list except those who I think won't be considered because of injury or lack of match readiness.

The blue list players are those more likely to be selected. The green list are those less likely, but of course Bevo has been known to pull a surprise.



I hereby declare the 2023 Pieman season open.
So if you're Rorying to go you can Lobb in your Round 1 selections whenever you like.

Don't forget that while you may change your selection any time up to the official match start time, any change MUST be in a new post. If you simply edit your original entry it will not be accepted.

If you select your players early for Round 1 and one of them doesn't make the final WB team you will get a Pieman sub. For Round 1 that sub is the player with the lowest handicap who isn't already in your team.

 

[dogwatch]

To kick things off the hopelessly optimistic RandomDog goes for:

English x2
Lobb
Khamis
Crozier

 

[chez_ferret]

On the basis that if I don't do it now I will forget:

Ugle-Hagan
Lobb
Bontempelli
Scott
Treloar

 

[jaxie1]

Jones A
English
Darcy
Weightman
Lobb
and thanks for all your work over the years

 

[SayerTheCreator]

I'm in!

Libba x2
Scott x2
Darcy

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I'm in - will post when the team is announced, to save having to come and re-post

 

[dogwatch]

I'd better get mine in. Might not get a chance later in the week.

Naughton
Ugle-Hagan
Bontempelli
Hannan
Johannisen