The place of manufacture of the AOD and hexaraline

[TerryWallet]

I'm with you DoP. The layers of intrigue in this saga are immense.

It is like a perfect storm has been instituted to force a hell of a lot of luminaries to place their cards firmly on the table.

 

[MaddAdam]

The only way it will be relevant is as leverage to make Dank and/or Charters spill whatever evidence they may have.

According to Baker and McKenzie today, he already has to the ACC.

This is also why his lawyer was strutting about when Essendon were threatening legal action and the like after some of his allegations re injecting Hird with stuff.

My read is that he's rolled over 100 per cent to the ACC and been given the guarantee that as long he's not bullshitting, and he does everything they ask, he'll skate or get a light whack.

And the ACC are using him as the conduit to leak the info they have to slowly ratchet up the pressure on Hird and Essendon until they come totally clean.

Which they should.

FFS, it may turn out, as Lance and the like suggest, that nothing actually comes of it all. I mean, the AFL will have to slap them with a fine and probably demand a head on a plate (seeya Robson).

I don't think that will be the endgame, I think WADA will be vengeful here and the Bombers have been caught with their pants down just enough for WADA to jam it it in, but you never know.

I just don't think playing hardball and pretending that April wins somehow affect the calculus is their right move though.

 

[MaddAdam]

I'm with you DoP. The layers of intrigue in this saga are immense.

It is like a perfect storm has been instituted to force a hell of a lot of luminaries to place their cards firmly on the table.

Oh man, you couldn't script it. Just off the top of my head think of the dramatis personae that we've had named already:

Golden boy James Hird

Generational ALP powerbroker Bill Kelty

Bandido sergeant at arms who has survived two murder attempts Toby Mitchell

Dr Ageless

The Weapon

Local good hearted but essentially cretinous dullard Mark McVeigh

It is almost Shakesperian in its make up. All the stock parts are there from the scheming villain (Dank) to the lovable fool (McVeigh) and the hero who must learn that to grow as person - STORY ARC! - he must admit he was wrong and face his demons before coming back bigger and better (so to speak) than ever before ... Hird.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I'm interested that the initial 730 Report suggested the two were importing it. It doesn't matter if you don't personally pick it up from the docks if you know it is coming in and intend to use/sell it.

Apart from ****wits like Mokbel who actually did go and pick up a kilo of coke from the docks, most drug importers don't get their hands on the stuff, but they are still importers and charged accordingly.

It would appear from the somewhat more in depth Baker and Mckenzie stuff does show the use of the compunding chemist chop out (attempt at chop out) as you say. Even then, the nature of conspiracy charges means that doesn't guarantee anything.

As I said, I don't believe Essendon are going to face drug dealing charges, but it does give us an idea of the scope of the investigation.

but what about the fact it's legal if sourced by a compounding chemist?

They are shady, they aren't ******* stupid, am I right?

 

[blackcat]

Does anybody know where the substances that Stephen Dank has said in his sworn testimony to the Australian Crime Commission he injected into Essendon players and coaches were manufactured?

 

[MaddAdam]

but what about the fact it's legal if sourced by a compounding chemist?

They are shady, they aren't ******* stupid, am I right?

I reckon Dank is no mug. In fact, I think he's played you (and the Dees) like a violin. I mean, surely this is his stock in trade ... he sells people bullshit potions that will make them feel 25 again. We've all seen Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. We all know how that ends up.

Again, I'm trying to let me very deeply felt hate for Essendon not colour this too much.

But it seems to me that real crux of the whole thing at your end is that he told you it was all OK and on the level, albeit close to the wire and that he had checked with WADA.

And you believed and didn't check that he was telling the truth.

Do we know how much he got out of the club in cash money dollars before getting arseholed?

I'm tipping that all up it would be a six figure sum more likely to start with a 5 or a 6 than a 1 or 2.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I reckon Dank is no mug. In fact, I think he's played you (and the Dees) like a violin. I mean, surely this is his stock in trade ... he sells people bullshit potions that will make them feel 25 again. We've all seen Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. We all know how that ends up.

Again, I'm trying to let me very deeply felt hate for Essendon not colour this too much.

But it seems to me that real crux of the whole thing at your end is that he told you it was all OK and on the level, albeit close to the wire and that he had checked with WADA.

And you believed and didn't check that he was telling the truth.

Do we know how much he got out of the club in cash money dollars before getting arseholed?

I'm tipping that all up it would be a six figure sum more likely to start with a 5 or a 6 than a 1 or 2.

agree he has played us. Agree we've f***** up. Agree he got paid for doing * all.

Not sure yet we didn't check. We'll see.

Agree we'll get reamed to some extent by the AFL. Agree the AFLPA have (rightly) massive fury about our practices.

But were we involved in trafficking? Hell no.

The whole premise of this thread is that the importation of these drugs is illegal and will result in *somebody* going down for trafficking. I'm not sure that's the case, given the compounding chemist loophole.

 

[jenny61_99]

apparently it's legal to get this stuff if it's via a compounding chemist, which is exactly the way Dank went about it. Admittedly his CC sounds like a shady individual too, but that's the loophole.

And it takes it even further away from being an EFC issue.

You sure you haven't just shot your bolt on this thread mate?

Lance it may be legal to get the stuff via a compounding chemist, it is, however, not legal for an athlete to use it due to the fact that it has not been approved for human use and falls under Category S0 of the WADA code.

There is nothing a compounding chemist could do to make it legal under the WADA code.

 

[The_Reaper]

Lance it may be legal to get the stuff via a compounding chemist, it is, however, not legal for an athlete to use it due to the fact that it has not been approved for human use and falls under Category S0 of the WADA code.

There is nothing a compounding chemist could do to make it legal under the WADA code.

We're not talking about that Jenny.

This thread is about whether or not Australian law was broken.

 

[blackcat]

Local good hearted but essentially cretinous dullard Mark McVeigh

he's from sydney, they can claim him. max markson was negotiating a deal for MM with advanced hair to be their next model. i wonder how this is gonna progess. i think he will have to look at other endorsements now like advanced medical clinic.

spike>jaryd

kray bros> mcvay bros(sic)

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Lance it may be legal to get the stuff via a compounding chemist, it is, however, not legal for an athlete to use it due to the fact that it has not been approved for human use and falls under Category S0 of the WADA code.

There is nothing a compounding chemist could do to make it legal under the WADA code.

oh my god. Are you ******* kidding me?

Please Jenny, read the thread and understand why I'm making this point. You may or may not be aware I'm somewhat over the issues as well.....

 

[blackcat]

Again, I'm trying to let me very deeply felt hate for Essendon not colour this too much.

big lolz. salient qualifier 2 much hehhehe. its all good baby babeee, nouw u know know you know. word up mag

 

[MaddAdam]

agree he has played us. Agree we've f***** up. Agree he got paid for doing **** all.

Not sure yet we didn't check. We'll see.

Agree we'll get reamed to some extent by the AFL. Agree the AFLPA have (rightly) massive fury about our practices.

But were we involved in trafficking? Hell no.

The whole premise of this thread is that the importation of these drugs is illegal and will result in *somebody* going down for trafficking. I'm not sure that's the case, given the compounding chemist loophole.

As much as I would like to see Essendon the organisation packed up, put in a box and left on a dusty shelf out the back of AFL House next to the boxes containing the remains of University and Fitzroy (yes Roylion I'm well aware you still play in the Ammos) that isn't going to happen.

As regards trafficking, I'm not so sure.

The text messages between Dank and Goodwin are absolute open and shut trafficking. Question is of what? If the substance isn't illegal, then then there's no difference between Goodwin asking Dank for the "good gear" and you texting me to ask me to grab a six pack on the way round to your joint to watch the footy. But if you text me and ask me to drop round to Callum Urch's house and get "the good year" on the way to your party and I do it and then pass that substance on to you, money involved or not, that's trafficking.

By giving the players injections, if the substance is illegal, it is trafficking in criminal law.

I'm not 100 per cent watertight on the WADA stuff, but my pretty clear understanding is that if you're a coach distributing banned for competition stuff to your athletes, that's trafficking for sports doping purposes (you don't do jail, you get banned from sport for life) and that is the one where Hird is very seriously out on a limb IMO.

 

[DesertRoo]

A bio chemist with a research company can pretty much import what they like with the right paper work of course.
The problem then becomes legal distribution. Enter componding chemists and doctors willing to make a quick buck.
The chopping out theory to sell at higher profits at a gym, interesting. They couldn't be that stupid if they've found a legal way to import and sell.

 

[MaddAdam]

This thread is about whether or not Australian law was broken.

It is and it isn't. It has been an excellent discussion so far, I hope we can continue in the same vein.

FWIW - I believe Australian law has most certainly been broken hence the involvement of the ACC.

I don't believe Australian law was knowingly broken by Essendon.

However I do believe Australian law was broken AT Essendon and by people employed by Essendon.

The space between those two is where the fun is being had.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

As much as I would like to see Essendon the organisation packed up, put in a box and left on a dusty shelf out the back of AFL House next to the boxes containing the remains of University and Fitzroy (yes Roylion I'm well aware you still play in the Ammos) that isn't going to happen.

As regards trafficking, I'm not so sure.

The text messages between Dank and Goodwin are absolute open and shut trafficking. Question is of what? If the substance isn't illegal, then then there's no difference between Goodwin asking Dank for the "good gear" and you texting me to ask me to grab a six pack on the way round to your joint to watch the footy. But if you text me and ask me to drop round to Callum Urch's house and get "the good year" on the way to your party and I do it and then pass that substance on to you, money involved or not, that's trafficking.

By giving the players injections, if the substance is illegal, it is trafficking in criminal law.

I'm not 100 per cent watertight on the WADA stuff, but my pretty clear understanding is that if you're a coach distributing banned for competition stuff to your athletes, that's trafficking for sports doping purposes (you don't do jail, you get banned from sport for life) and that is the one where Hird is very seriously out on a limb IMO.

Higgs Boson started a thread on this. Probably worth checking out

 

[jenny61_99]

oh my god. Are you ******* kidding me?

Please Jenny, read the thread and understand why I'm making this point. You may or may not be aware I'm somewhat over the issues as well.....

As are we all. I was just responding to your post - no need to throat me for it.

 

[blackcat]

oh my god. Are you ******* kidding me?

Please Jenny, read the thread and understand why I'm making this point.

sounds like negotiating to take RU486 or get a late term abortion.

jenny, felliciatations on your pregnancy

 

[The_Reaper]

I'm more inclined to believe that club officials would not have being directly involved in trafficking.

They will have plausible deniability as to how it were sourced.

 

[MaddAdam]

big lolz. salient qualifier 2 much hehhehe. its all good baby babeee, nouw u know know you know. word up mag

There's threads for gloating and riling them and have no fear that these are truly magic days for a North supporter - Caro Wilson being forced to formally apologise to us and Essendon caught in a web of deception of their own making.

But this is a good thread for genuinely discussing the whole thing so I'm TRYING, perhaps not always succeeding, in keeping the troll down to as low as possible.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

As are we all. I was just responding to your post - no need to throat me for it.

you completely missed the point of what I was saying, and tried to tell me something I, and anybody with an ounce of knowledge retention, already knows. So your response was at best patronising.

As Denis Pagan would say, don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining.

 

[jenny61_99]

We can make these peptides at work. We are a research facility so have the ability to use them "for research purposes only". We cannot make them for Joe Blogs to take. Our facility would be shut down and we'd be out of a job (at the very least).

 

[jenny61_99]

you completely missed the point of what I was saying, and tried to tell me something I, and anybody with an ounce of knowledge retention, already knows. So your response was at best patronising.

As Denis Pagan would say, don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining.

Sorry dude, I did miss the point and felt it strange I had to remind you of the facts. Mxett is doing my head in!

 

[MaddAdam]

Higgs Boson started a thread on this. Probably worth checking out

Yeah, I read it. I think IanW pretty much nailed it on that one.

Again, the texts between Dank and Hird appear to clearly establish that Hird was totally cognisant of the systematic use of AOD and other substances on his players to gain an advantage.

IF ... and as you say Baker and McKenzie appear to believe the AOD case is weak and certainly vulnerable to legal challenge and those boys are thorough ... AOD stands up as a banned substance, then I don't see how Hird gets anything under a lifelong ban from involvement in the sport.

IF.

And as I said above, WADA are going to be vengeful on this and it appears the ACC are happy to help them out (to suit the ACCs own purposes, naturally)

The worst bit for your mob is that Dank is outside the tent pissing in now.

You want that the other way around.

 

[blackcat]

There's threads for gloating and riling them and have no fear that these are truly magic days for a North supporter - Caro Wilson being forced to formally apologise to us and Essendon caught in a web of deception of their own making.

But this is a good thread for genuinely discussing the whole thing so I'm TRYING, perhaps not always succeeding, in keeping the troll down to as low as possible.

yeah, i like it. the beauty of the troll masqueraded in non-troll context, and history. is brilliant