The positives thread

[lionshine]

I have to say one thing that does give me hope we can still improve further is the amount of young talent either just breaking through into our best 22 in the past year or so or right on the edge of doing so. Payne, Coleman, Dev, Wilmot, Lohmann, Ashcroft, Fletcher.

If these guys all improve next season with Levi Ashcroft set to come in end of next year, the quality of our side is in good shape for a number of years to come.

 

[Surly Boy]

This is fantastic from the club given the players must be hurting worse than we are.

 

[Mr Ripper]

They’re a lot better than I am, I still haven’t recovered and very hurt and angry about it all to the point I had tickets to the after match function at Crown but couldn’t bring myself to attending or going to BSO the day after.

You should have donated your drink voucher to ZoBlitz.

 

[Paul Mac]

They’re a lot better than I am, I still haven’t recovered and very hurt and angry about it all to the point I had tickets to the after match function at Crown but couldn’t bring myself to attending or going to BSO the day after. This loss has no doubt cut me more than it should and my anger and disappointment is no doubt being mis-directed to the point I can’t see any positives and certainly not interested in any learnings.

Nonetheless, credit to the club, players and coaches who al probably want nothing more than to crawl under rock yet are publicly supporting their fans. That’s a massive positive.

My daughter was the same as you but after attending Brunswick Street Oval and getting so many selfies with the players and getting her favourite framed picture of Lachie neale signed , i can tell you she walked away feeling just a little bit better in herself. Her comment in the car on the way home was " i'm glad we came today now Dad, i feel abit better now".

 

[BuntonRules]

They’re a lot better than I am, I still haven’t recovered and very hurt and angry about it all to the point I had tickets to the after match function at Crown but couldn’t bring myself to attending or going to BSO the day after. This loss has no doubt cut me more than it should and my anger and disappointment is no doubt being mis-directed to the point I can’t see any positives and certainly not interested in any learnings.

Nonetheless, credit to the club, players and coaches who al probably want nothing more than to crawl under rock yet are publicly supporting their fans. That’s a massive positive.

Try breathing excercises - in with the good, out with the bad.

 

[Rouge 9917]

People said that about us when we lost our first few finals under Fagan yet I see Carlton made the finals this year and won two in a row. Appreciate your sentiments but I don’t agree with Fagan that you need to lose before you win because there’s too many examples contrary to that. Sounds like an easy excuse to justify failure.

Apparently the Losing Grand Finalist
Has not made the following years GF since 2012

 

[martinson]

FWIW I did the stats on that a while back. Some lose one and then win one, but a lot more lose one and never come back and winners usually just win straight up the first time.

I thought everyone knew that.

But good work in validating it.

There's no golden rule in any of these things. If you're good enough you can do it . You could still lose. If you're not quite good enough you can still sneak one.

 

[JasRulz63]

Apparently the Losing Grand Finalist
Has not made the following years GF since 2012

Last time a side lost by 4 points in a Grand Final, they won it the next year (WC in 2005-6).

 

[Bosh Jootsma]

Last times/trends just don't matter in the end. It's a way to irrationally cope with the loss.

I believe it's more logical to look at our list an understand there are only 2-3 changes that could occur next season due to age/off contracts, so we are positioned well to compete again next season. But in terms of making/winning a grand final, nothing is guaranteed, though no doubt externally this is a must win season. Let's hope psychologically we are prepared for next season.

 

[Dalions]

Apparently the Losing Grand Finalist
Has not made the following years GF since 2012

But that team that lost the GF in 2012 went on to win 3 in a row.

 

[dlanod]

I thought everyone knew that.

But good work in validating it.

There's no golden rule in any of these things. If you're good enough you can do it . You could still lose. If you're not quite good enough you can still sneak one.

Given the sheer amount it gets repeated after most non-flogging grand finals as if it's an aphorism, no they do not know that.

 

[Viceregal]

Losing like Port's last try - unlikely to come back the next year
Losing like we did (and when we are on the up not like in 2004 trying to squeeze out just one more) - every chance.

Depends on the players ... if they feel they gave their best and it wasn't good enough so why bother then pain will be our future ... if they feel that they could have done better and are determined that next time they will do better then not quite so painful.

That being said if you lost by four points against four other teams for four GF's in a row ...

 

[martinson]

I'm not disagreeing with the optimistic takes on our future on this thread except to say there's no guarantee our younger players are going to be future stars. Or develop in the fashion that we need them to to stay competitive.

Most clubs are just as optimistic on their young talent.

We probably have next year near the top provided the players come back with the same motivation. After that I'm in the optimistic but need to wait and see boat. Lots of teams are building what look to be strong lists.

 

[knaf]

Apparently the Losing Grand Finalist
Has not made the following years GF since 2012

Is this still the positives thread?

History is bunk!

or more fully “History is more or less bunk. It's tradition. We don't want tradition. We want to live in the present, and the only history that is worth a tinker's damn is the history that we make today." Or from now on!

 

[briztoon]

I'm not disagreeing with the optimistic takes on our future on this thread except to say there's no guarantee our younger players are going to be future stars. Or develop in the fashion that we need them to to stay competitive.

Most clubs are just as optimistic on their young talent.

We probably have next year near the top provided the players come back with the same motivation. After that I'm in the optimistic but need to wait and see boat. Lots of teams are building what look to be strong lists.

I believe we’re in the mix next year, and probably the year after if Neale can remain close to his best.

We have a natural heir apparent to Neale in WAshcroft. I believe he can be just as good in time. But it’s expecting a lot of WAshcroft as a second year player coming back from an ACL next year.

Similarly I believe LAshcroft is a natural heir apparent to Zorko, but that’s in the future, like 6 years in the future.

Right now we need the likes of Ah Chee, Hipwood, McCluggage, Berry, Rayner, Bailey and Starcevich to really step up and all find a higher level of play.

And we need continued development from KColeman, Wilmot, Fletcher and WAshcroft. And for kids like Sharp, Lohmann and Tunstill to emerge as best 22 options.

 

[Elixuh]

The positive is we have the list to win the flag. Any other team against the Pies on Saturday would have been destroyed. Equally we would have beaten any other team comfortably.

The free hit of being able to add Doedee will strengthen us even further.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I'm excited to see what Fletcher can do over the next couple of years. Not sure the wing will be his position long term and he can be a damaging on baller pretty soon

 

[briztoon]

I'm excited to see what Fletcher can do over the next couple of years. Not sure the wing will be his position long term and he can be a damaging on baller pretty soon

Knew I forgot someone.

 

[vic_LION]

Right now we need the likes of Ah Chee, Hipwood, McCluggage, Berry, Rayner, Bailey and Starcevich to really step up and all find a higher level of play.

It’ll be great for Ah Chee to hopefully get a full season in next year. He was phenomenal when he came back and can only assume with more games he should be able to play to that level more consistently.

 

[Macca180]

I have never felt more positive.

Bring on 2024

 

[Viceregal]

We seem to have gotten into Barrett's head...

We got a mention in West Coast, Melbourne, GWS, and of course Brisbane this week

 

[irel]

We seem to have gotten into Barrett's head...

We got a mention in West Coast, Melbourne, GWS, and of course Brisbane this week

WOW, Dev knocked back more than double $$ to loiter around the fringes of the Lions’ pride.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Stats on the margin in those games would be interesting. Feels like the big losses are the ones who never make it back.

No team since Geelong in 1994 has lost a Grand Final by 40 points or more and won a final the next year. They've either missed out altogether, lost an Elimination Final or gone out in straight sets.

Sydney this year became the latest example.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

No team since Geelong in 1994 has lost a Grand Final by 40 points or more and won a final the next year. They've either missed out altogether, lost an Elimination Final or gone out in straight sets.

Sydney this year became the latest example.

On the flip side of this, since 1990 there have only been eight grand finals decided by less than four goals. The form line of the losing team the following season is pretty strong:

2018 - Collingwood (made the prelim the next year)
2016 - Sydney (made the semi final the next year)
2013 - Freo (made the semi final the next year)
2012 - Hawthorn (won the flag the next year)
2009 - St Kilda (made the grand final the next year)
2006 - Sydney (made the finals the next year, but didn't make it past week one)
2005 - West Coast (won the flag the next year)
2002 - Collingwood (made the grand final the next year)

On this history, we're a 50% chance of making the grand final, and a 25% chance of winning the flag.

 

[Milux]

Not sure where to put this but I'm sure I'm currently at the same camp as [PLAYERCARD]Jarryd Lyons[/PLAYERCARD]. I'm not gonna hassle him but if i see him at the bar later I'll be sure to buy him a drink.