The possibility of Essendon innocence: a travesty of justice or conspiracy theory for the ages?

Ancient Tiger

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Let's forget about GHRP in any discussion about assault charges, you would have to agree to that.
What you need to do now is explain why the personal email from Dank and any other evidence you have, could convince a magistrate beyond reasonable doubt that the criminal offence of common assault has been committed.
Be very mindful of the standard of proof needed, when you have a crack at it.
Giving anything to someone without their knowledge can be looked at as assault and battery. An email from the defendant stating in no uncertain terms that's exactly what he did is a confession. An electronic one maybe but still a confession. As such, it would certainly be very strong evidence. I don't know if it would get a conviction though but that's why we have a Court process.
 

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Bombfire

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Giving anything to someone without their knowledge can be looked at as assault and battery. An email from the defendant stating in no uncertain terms that's exactly what he did is a confession. An electronic one maybe but still a confession. As such, it would certainly be very strong evidence. I don't know if it would get a conviction though but that's why we have a Court process.
Firstly, the criminal charge your contemplating (and it's a very remote contemplation) is common assault, which is like me tipping slops from a beer cup onto your head.
Secondly there is allegedly an email to your mate from Dank saying he could give anything to the players and they wouldn't know.
You call that a confession, and evidence that would convict beyond reasonable doubt.
It's not even close to being evidence to get a conviction. The cops would call you a fruitcake if you came to them with that.
 

STFU Donnie

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Evidence brought from an infraction of the WADA code that had to be adjudicated by an overseas sports arbitration would be laughed at by a magistrate in any Australian court, so don't even waste your time.
Which brings us to your testimony, but you've admitted you don't have the kahunas to stand up, so that means we end up with nothing for the cops to lay charges.
Next case.
The word you seek is "cojones"
 

Ancient Tiger

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Firstly, the criminal charge your contemplating (and it's a very remote contemplation) is common assault, which is like me tipping slops from a beer cup onto your head.
Secondly there is allegedly an email to your mate from Dank saying he could give anything to the players and they wouldn't know.
You call that a confession, and evidence that would convict beyond reasonable doubt.
It's not even close to being evidence to get a conviction. The cops would call you a fruitcake if you came to them with that.
OMG. You certainly cannot read. I just said I didn't know if it would get a conviction and it would need to go through a court process and you then turn around and twist it to state that I said it would convict beyond a reasonable doubt. You are either an idiot or just a troll.

Also injecting players with substances that they are unaware of is far more serious than tipping slops from a beer cup onto your head! FFS how old are you? Have you any clue about the law? I'm a bloody medico and if I gave my patients something they did not consent to I would face serious charges. FACT. And it is more than common assault. It is assault and battery. Why don't you f****n look it up on google and find out why!
 
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Ancient Tiger

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Nobody believes that.
Hang on a second, I was a trainer at Essendon from 2010 to 2014.
I don't care if you believe me or not because it's the truth and if any player had the guts to lay charges on Dank, I could direct them on where to look for such evidence because it still exists. I have no gains by posting here apart from spreading the truth of what happened back then and letting people know what I know. If they don't believe me, I don't care. I can't force people to believe someone they've never personally had dealings with or trust. However, these are the facts as I know them and as were shown to me. Take it or leave it. Seriously it makes no difference to me. However, please be courteous enough to just say "Sorry, but I don't believe you even though I can't see why you would make this entire story up" instead of "you don't know anything" because, believe me, as a senior medical specialist, I probably know so much more than you'd ever know.
 

JoondalupJ

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And why don't you think that's happened?

There is only one logical reason. Essendon do not want the truth to come out because they know the truth. The players should have taken Dank to court for assault. But they were happy to get an insurance payout and probably agreed not to pursue this any further as part of the conditions of the payout. They also would be taking the club to court as he was their employee.

I know if I had been banned for taking something I didn't agree to, I'd be doing everything to clear my name. But all we get is deathly silence.
But you see, you can't even say " do not want to know the truth" for either side of the argument.
The thing is that there is no truth been told, some people have told nothing , refused to say more, one flatly refused to speak full stop. Could that point to guilt , bloody oath it can does it proove guilt , no way in the world, 34 players all or some were treated like crap, abd you say some have an agreement to get paid iout by insurance, to ease the pain??? Well to me that suggests some one said let it ride say no more , the insurance will cover you beautifully, does sound like a deal ? Sure it does, does it make it the truth about ...WHO DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH????... not by a long shot.

You can't tell me that the term drug use or the words performance-enhancing "drugs" hasn't been used over and over again by the media, and even if it was a supplement or a drug, what we've just learnt is that the WADA ASADA people, all had their banned or not listed supplements unco-ordinated, and out of time frame.
Sorry man I don't know? I'm over arguing this, but something is definitely wrong with it .
Demetriou ringing people up with warnings?
I mean did he know that the stuff they were being given was a drug for enhancing performance, did he think that, how could he send out a warning if the thymosin hadn't been listed, then.
And that they'd stopped taking it before they were self reporting, look I just hope someone goes to court with it , because I can't believe any of it. and there are people who want to take it to court , not many maybe, but some do.

I just always struggled to see how 34 blokes innocently going about a supplement training set up , where lots were young and wanting to impress and did what they believed was fine, if you can't see the descrepencies none of the lynch mob couldn't or woudn't see over the years, well you know its football , its probably not even worth the finger tapping on the key board, and for me it'd be great to see what real heinous crime was actually committed, I suspect very little or none! 34 people are known as cheats though?
 

JoondalupJ

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Essendon I'm sure do know the truth, as does Dank. They opened their door to ASADA and the AFL. If anyone is hiding anything it's the latter.

They had to play within the WADA guidelines, they appealed to the highest legal avenue afforded within those guidelines.
Who are they going to sue? Dank? He was not found guilty of injecting banned substances into the Essendon players. What exactly are they going to sue him for? They settled with the club regarding WorkSafe. Until they clear their name, there is no one else they can sue.

Nathan Lovett Murray may appear to be fighting a one man war at the moment, but it only takes one to unravel the mess.
Does anyone on this forum think for one second like I do, that 34 players ramrodded into guilt and lies were actually the ones who should have copped penalties at all? If something rotten was happening, I 'd like to know.
All of us that follow footy would like to know the real thing, because with ASADA WADA CAS mish mashing around, and whoever else stuck their noses in we still know no more , and here we are still arguing the bullshit, and people say it's done and dusted, nonsense. But I'm sure done .
 

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Ancient Tiger

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But you see, you can't even say " do not want to know the truth" for either side of the argument.
The thing is that there is no truth been told, some people have told nothing , refused to say more, one flatly refused to speak full stop. Could that point to guilt , bloody oath it can does it proove guilt , no way in the world, 34 players all or some were treated like crap, abd you say some have an agreement to get paid iout by insurance, to ease the pain??? Well to me that suggests some one said let it ride say no more , the insurance will cover you beautifully, does sound like a deal ? Sure it does, does it make it the truth about ...WHO DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH????... not by a long shot.

You can't tell me that the term drug use or the words performance-enhancing "drugs" hasn't been used over and over again by the media, and even if it was a supplement or a drug, what we've just learnt is that the WADA ASADA people, all had their banned or not listed supplements unco-ordinated, and out of time frame.
Sorry man I don't know? I'm over arguing this, but something is definitely wrong with it .
Demetriou ringing people up with warnings?
I mean did he know that the stuff they were being given was a drug for enhancing performance, did he think that, how could he send out a warning if the thymosin hadn't been listed, then.
And that they'd stopped taking it before they were self reporting, look I just hope someone goes to court with it , because I can't believe any of it. and there are people who want to take it to court , not many maybe, but some do.

I just always struggled to see how 34 blokes innocently going about a supplement training set up , where lots were young and wanting to impress and did what they believed was fine, if you can't see the descrepencies none of the lynch mob couldn't or woudn't see over the years, well you know its football , its probably not even worth the finger tapping on the key board, and for me it'd be great to see what real heinous crime was actually committed, I suspect very little or none! 34 people are known as cheats though?
Firstly any man-made or even natural element that is taken up in the human body through injection, ingestion, inhalation or even transcutaneous absortion that causes a physiological change in the body is by definition a drug. It is not a supplement. For example, several players have admitted having AOD9604 which is definitely a drug. It is now clearly a banned drug and should always have been one since it is actually a branch of human growth hormone. So we know that those players definitely took drugs that are known to be banned now. A supplement is usually a vitamin or mineral that is normally found in the body and by taking it boosts levels of that vitamin or mineral to normal levels in cases where it is low i.e. it supplements the body's low amounts of it. That's not what any type of thymosin is.

They took these drugs to enhance their performance. Of course they did. Why else subject yourself to multiple injections? Did the players just like being pin cushions? Of course not. The club wanted them to go down this path to improve their performance. So really, in all essences of the word, they were given performance enhancing drugs. What the argument has been is that they were permitted PEDs not banned ones. That is a shaky argument because everyone knows that as soon as a PED does what it is supposed to, there is almost 100% chance that it will be either banned or will be banned (like AOD).

I don't like the players being called drug cheats but I have stated they were at least trying to be drug assisted with what they were falsely told were legal drugs. I prefer the term unknowing drug cheat as opposed to knowing drug cheat. Thymosin was on the prohibited list back then but ASADA didn't have it on their website. However, not being on the website clearly states that does not automatically mean it's permitted as permitted drugs have that clearly stated on the search.

For me, Dank is the guilty party here. We know he used prohibited drugs at Cronulla shortly before going to Essendon. So he clearly was capable of doing the same at Essendon. The players need to somehow charge him to get some respect back with the community. Even if it comes out that he gave them GHRP, hexarelin and CJC1295 that surely is better than the current not knowing. At least they can prove he gave those drugs without their permission so they really were not intending to cheat. They were just duped.
 
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Ancient Tiger

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Does anyone on this forum think for one second like I do, that 34 players ramrodded into guilt and lies were actually the ones who should have copped penalties at all? If something rotten was happening, I 'd like to know.
All of us that follow footy would like to know the real thing, because with ASADA WADA CAS mish mashing around, and whoever else stuck their noses in we still know no more , and here we are still arguing the bullshit, and people say it's done and dusted, nonsense. But I'm sure done .
The one guy who really knows is Dank and despite bragging that he would save the players, nothing but silence came out of his mouth. There can only be one reason for that but many are choosing to ignore that fact......
 

blackshadow

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Does anyone on this forum think for one second like I do, that 34 players ramrodded into guilt and lies were actually the ones who should have copped penalties at all? If something rotten was happening, I 'd like to know.
All of us that follow footy would like to know the real thing, because with ASADA WADA CAS mish mashing around, and whoever else stuck their noses in we still know no more , and here we are still arguing the bullshit, and people say it's done and dusted, nonsense. But I'm sure done .
Yes I do as under strict liability in anti dopimg law they must be responsible for what enters their bodies.

The organisation that organised the doping, Essendon Football Club got off with a slap on the wrist though. They should have been deregistered for at least double the time the players copped.
 

Bombfire

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OMG. You certainly cannot read. I just said I didn't know if it would get a conviction and it would need to go through a court process and you then turn around and twist it to state that I said it would convict beyond a reasonable doubt. You are either an idiot or just a troll.

Also injecting players with substances that they are unaware of is far more serious than tipping slops from a beer cup onto your head! FFS how old are you? Have you any clue about the law? I'm a bloody medico and if I gave my patients something they did not consent to I would face serious charges. FACT. And it is more than common assault. It is assault and battery. Why don't you f****n look it up on google and find out why!
Once again you continue to disappoint.
You actually told the world that an email was "very strong evidence" to convict Dank of a criminal offence so one can only assume your comfortably sitting aboard the guilty Dank pony.

As for your assault and battery charge, I really think you should stick to your medico job, whatever that may be- PCA, Nursing, Pathology or whatever is you actually do, because you're not delivering very much when it comes to law in Victoria. It just isn't in your shaky realm of expertise.
For your indulgence, there actually is no offence of assault and battery, so get on to your legal adviser and get him to do some research on some other charge you want to level at Dank. While you're at it, get your advisor to give you a tutorial on standard of proof for criminal offences in Victoria. It will save you a lot of embarrassment and maybe even turn your mind to the fact that assault charges will never be levelled at Dank. Ever.
 

Bombfire

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Yes I do as under strict liability in anti dopimg law they must be responsible for what enters their bodies.

The organisation that organised the doping, Essendon Football Club got off with a slap on the wrist though. They should have been deregistered for at least double the time the players copped.
It's funny that Ancient Tigger is strong on the story that Dank unilaterally doped the players without their knowledge (the email attests), and yet you're going down the organised doping line. Actually it's not funny it's pathetic really.
 

blackshadow

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It's funny that Ancient Tigger is strong on the story that Dank unilaterally doped the players without their knowledge (the email attests), and yet you're going down the organised doping line. Actually it's not funny it's pathetic really.
Not at all.

Dank was just doing what he was employed to do by Essendon.
 

blackshadow

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You need to sort something out then with Ancient Tigger because he’s diametrically opposed to your fanciful notion.
Not at all.

The players most probably didn't know what they were injected with and it suited them not to know.

Dank is a biochemist, not a sports scientist, dietician or anything else. His expertise is around the use of drugs to enhance performance. Essendon employed him to do that and really didn't want to know what he injected into the players as long as it got results.
 

Bombfire

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Not at all.

The players most probably didn't know what they were injected with and it suited them not to know.

Dank is a biochemist, not a sports scientist, dietician or anything else. His expertise is around the use of drugs to enhance performance. Essendon employed him to do that and really didn't want to know what he injected into the players as long as it got results.
So according to Ancient Tigger, Dank duped the players, but somehow it suited them not not to know,
There’s a fair bit of incongruity going on there, in case you didn’t know.
You also missed the bit about WADA compliance advocated by Hirdy, which is on the record, as it was all happening.
 

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