The possibility of Essendon innocence: a travesty of justice or conspiracy theory for the ages?

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Aussie in exile

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You do realise that Dank consulted to Melbourne from August 2012, when he was sacked by Essendon, until the very day Essendon self reported in 2013? He in effect would have used the exact same substances, injected into the Melbourne players. There were no other trips made to China (that were reported), so where would Dank have sourced the good version of Thymosin for the Melbourne players, if Essendon was supplied the bad version?

Why don't you call your club and ask them to provide you a list of the records that Dank used on the Melbourne players? Do Melbourne have anything to hide? They lied to the AFL that Dank had worked for them. Text messages were then uncovered between Dank and the Melbourne club doctor, implicating 8 Melbourne players about an injections program. Subsequently, Melbourne acknowledged Dank 'did provide' some 'unofficial' services and then stood down it's club doctor. Why would Melbourne lie?

Your club should have bought lotto tickets all throughout 2013. Just consider that your club was lucky to have been found guilty of 'not tanking' as the main reason Essendon were made the sole AFL scapegoat in this saga. Match fixing is a more serious offence than doping. Melbourne players were simply left to play, with no questions asked.

The Bombers self reported as someone had tipped them off the testers were in town, and didn't have a choice.
Who ever tipped them off knew the stuff being injected into the players was illegal otherwise they would have kept records of what was being injected into them.
 

ChipnPotato

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The Bombers self reported as someone had tipped them off the testers were in town, and didn't have a choice.
Who ever tipped them off knew the stuff being injected into the players was illegal otherwise they would have kept records of what was being injected into them.
Conveniently, you totally disregard my comment about the Melbourne FC.

Essendon did not 'self report'. Demetriou tipped off Evans and told him it was in the best interest of the club to come out and self report. This is very different to Essendon doing it on their own accord. You have the CEO of the AFL and the ACC, as figures of influence. In the end there was no real proof to convict anybody.
 

Aussie in exile

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Conveniently, you totally disregard my comment about the Melbourne FC.

Essendon did not 'self report'. Demetriou tipped off Evans and told him it was in the best interest of the club to come out and self report. This is very different to Essendon doing it on their own accord. You have the CEO of the AFL and the ACC, as figures of influence. In the end there was no real proof to convict anybody.
Why didn't they keep the records of what was injected into the players?
 

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ChipnPotato

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Why didn't they keep the records of what was injected into the players?
They did keep records. As Blackshadow has alluded. It was a football club not a hospital.

A record is an individuals’ reflection of events. Is it correct or an exaggeration of the truth? It neither proves or disproves that something has occurred, unless it was captured by an independent body. Did ASADA or WADA refer to this record in their findings, regardless of how thorough or not, it may have been?

Did Melbourne keep records? Why don’t you ask your own club?
 

Aussie in exile

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They did keep records. As Blackshadow has alluded. It was a football club not a hospital.

A record is an individuals’ reflection of events. Is it correct or an exaggeration of the truth? It neither proves or disproves that something has occurred, unless it was captured by an independent body. Did ASADA or WADA refer to this record in their findings, regardless of how thorough or not, it may have been?

Did Melbourne keep records? Why don’t you ask your own club?
So you say the club kept records of what was injected into the players, so what did them records reveal?
Why was the club tipped off the testers were in town if they had nothing to hide?
 

ChipnPotato

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So you say the club kept records of what was injected into the players, so what did them records reveal?
-Thymosin
-AOD 9604
-Colostrum
-Tribulus

Go back and re read parts of this thread. You may even find a photo of a photo and a program outline.

Why was the club tipped off the testers were in town if they had nothing to hide?
You keep referring to this ‘the testers were in town’.

You make it sound like Essendon was ‘tipped off’ as a favour to give them time to dispose of the evidence, when in fact Essendon was pressured to self incriminate by the AFL as there was no real evidence.

ASADA has no jurisdiction to investigate unless they have evidence in the way of positive urine or blood samples, whistleblowers or self incrimination.

The club was tipped off and warned by Andrew Demetriou in Feb 2013. There were no positive results and no whistleblowers. Their so called evidence was missing a few punchlines. Dank was sacked by Essendon sometime in August 2012. The injections stopped prior to this. There is a gap of some 8 months between the conclusion of the program and the ‘tip off’. Who are the testers? ASADA? ASADA was testing the players in and out of competition during the course of the supplements program and returned zero positive results from 30-odd A and B samples, from 15 different players.

If anyone was truly tipped off by Essendon it was the Melbourne FC who was utilising Dank at the time.

The tip off was no favour to Essendon, it was the coffin itself.
 

ThirtyFive

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Report on 7 News tonight regarding a TGA warning regarding Melanotan. Link makes interesting reading.

Beware the Barbie drug: the dangers of using melanotan

We are urging consumers to steer clear of products containing melanotan. These products are usually marketed as injectable tanning products.

It is illegal to advertise and supply these products, and their use can have serious side effects that can be very damaging to your health.

Find out more: www.tga.gov.au/behind-news/beware-barbie-drug-dangers-using-melanotan
 

Aussie in exile

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You do realise that Dank consulted to Melbourne from August 2012, when he was sacked by Essendon, until the very day Essendon self reported in 2013? He in effect would have used the exact same substances, injected into the Melbourne players. There were no other trips made to China (that were reported), so where would Dank have sourced the good version of Thymosin for the Melbourne players, if Essendon was supplied the bad version?

Why don't you call your club and ask them to provide you a list of the records that Dank used on the Melbourne players? Do Melbourne have anything to hide? They lied to the AFL that Dank had worked for them. Text messages were then uncovered between Dank and the Melbourne club doctor, implicating 8 Melbourne players about an injections program. Subsequently, Melbourne acknowledged Dank 'did provide' some 'unofficial' services and then stood down it's club doctor. Why would Melbourne lie?

Your club should have bought lotto tickets all throughout 2013. Just consider that your club was lucky to have been found guilty of 'not tanking' as the main reason Essendon were made the sole AFL scapegoat in this saga. Match fixing is a more serious offence than doping. Melbourne players were simply left to play, with no questions asked.

34 Essondon players didn't get banned because they was innocent did they?
There is a reason why the got banned.
 

Aeglos

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The doctor in question is Hans-Wilhelm Muller-Wohlfahrt who was the German national doctor for 23 years before moving to Bayern Munich, he's not some unknown who's been dabbling in sports medicine. De Goey might not understand the full details of what it was, but let's face it he's not a rocket scientist either.

By his own reports he does use a lot of Actovegin in his treatments, but that's yet to be banned by WADA. So unless you have some evidence that he was using unknown substances not approved by WADA, it's an unfounded conspiracy theory at this point in time.
Irrespective of whether he's actually using WADA compliant substances or methods ole "Healing Hans" definitely falls under the category of quack.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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Anyone who doesn't think this changes the whole total complete game plan , understands nothing!
And also is more than likely part of the vulture like lynch mob of a few years ago when this story was ablaze and the haters were out in force with one liners about guilt and drugs and very very few were saying that there is no , yes no proof and reasonable doubt that this kangaroo court had gone too far.

And on it went, with ASADA and WADA and RALLYING TOGETHER TO GET ESSENDON MASSACRED, NO MATTER WHAT
THEY WERE GUILTY THE DAY THEY SELF CONFESSED BECAUSE OF CONFUSION AND NOT HAVING THEMSELVES PROPERLY IN THE KNOW ABOUT SUPPLEMENTS, IN FACT IT APPEARS THERE WAS NOTHING AT THE TIME TO KNOW ABOUT......... THYMOSIN BETA 4 OR JUST THYMOSIN without a fancy addition with B4 added? THAT IS AN ADMINISTRATION SITUATION AND EVEN THE THYMOSIN had conflicting and confusing knowledge about it.

Then AD decides to make a call?? Then Essendon self confess, just in case? James Hird becomes the kicking post, the rest run for cover the President quits, others fall over, the Weapon is inconsolable and excuse ridden, even in a TV interview, but he was not the main culprit............. if there was any CULPRIT AT ALL!!!????


THEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Danks, said nothing, why? Who knows.
But he's lost his job and credibility, for maybe a load of overdone rubbish and zealotry from ASADA with it's investigation man, who wanted a hanging. Wanted a hanging! SOMEONE!
ANYONE!

So what has that got to do with suspending the Essendon 34??? What a miscarriage of justice!!! Out of some special sports body on the other side of the world?

No proof of anything, and when injected even, no proof in written rules or laws, or directions, ABOUT THIS STUFF!

As we now know, they were told what the supplement was, and they'd been off it for months before it was even listed on one or the other of either ASADA or WADA'S rule books. that's in dispute too? That means something stinks because someone is telling lies!!! HAS TO BE COUNTERED WITH A REOPENING ABSOLUTELY!

( Watch them cover their backsides all parties who went after this club )

One parent studied all this stuff and found it OK, that is why this whole thing should be thrown out the gate, and then reopened!

I hope the 34 players sue the backsides off anyone involved in this travesty of sports justice, which is and was even then, farcical.

Even when it all happened, a dumb bastard like me could see with plain logic that the beat up was on from the word go, AND WHY??
That's the million-dollar question?

Didn't stop some calling me every idiot name in the world!

AD was the boss at the time , and his second in command GM (now CEO) was there at the time, plus MF,he was there as well, and many others and maybe this could break the nonsense of how this administration destroys people and clubs at a whim, and ruins our game, dilutes it with newbies, has one of the worst standard seasons on record, not just me saying that this year.

The worst finals series, except for maybe a couple of games ??? Giants horrific wet weather win against Collingwood the worst final I 've seen, and GWS were so out of place , Port in 2007 made them look like the plastic they are.
I watched Ess v Carl 1993 , on old time redoing of Winners s**t FOXFOOTY, that was GREAT footy , saw one point kicked in the quarter and a bit, that they showed, and 6 goals from deliberate shots?

I'd like to see that!

So for me, and how footy is being screwed and how Essendon have been hung out to dry, is a great reason to investigate and deeply, this administration.And its rule changers and nonsensical umpiring!

AND JOBE WATSON? GIVE HIM BACK HIS BROWNLOW!

If he would take it back at all, after how he has been treated by the press/ media and others in the footy world, I am a member of Hawthorn , I still feel uncomfortable about Cotchin and Sammy getting Jobe's medal, all of this has been officialdom f*****g up, something needs to change!

I won't hold my breath but those 34 , if you don't sue you are crazy, I'll be looking out for the Mother and son going for the AFL ASADA WADA throats .

And James Hirds Dad, HIS SON NEARLY KILLED HIMSELF , A CHAMPION OF OUR GAME, RAILROADED INTO AN INSTITUTION OVER THIS CRUD! Disgusting!

James, I hope you are back in football very soon to do what you do best and that was coach under hard circumstances. McLachlan, you and your cronies should resign!
Old man yells at cloud.jpg
 

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The_Wookie

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You keep referring to this ‘the testers were in town’.

You make it sound like Essendon was ‘tipped off’ as a favour to give them time to dispose of the evidence, when in fact Essendon was pressured to self incriminate by the AFL as there was no real evidence.
This ignores the fact that Essendon was involved in some shady stuff was widely known throughout the AFL industry before the ACC report - hell rumours were here on Bigfooty some time before this.
  • 2013 – January 31. ASADA and the AFL discussed certain matters arising from the ACC “Project Aperio”. Mr Paul Jevtovic of the ACC was in attendance. A briefing document was prepared, naming, amongst others, Essendon. Ms Andruska attended the meeting and took notes (as was her practice). The AFL attendees were Mr Andrew Demetriou (CEO), Mr Gillon McLachlan (Deputy CEO), and Mr Brett Clothier (Manager – Integrity Services). Mr McLachlan asked: “Is it Essendon?” Mr Jevtovic replied: “say no more”.
ASADA has no jurisdiction to investigate unless they have evidence in the way of positive urine or blood samples, whistleblowers or self incrimination.
But the AFL did under its player contracts, and those powers were relied upon by ASADA in conjunction with the AFL.
  • 2013 – February 1. Mr Clothier telephoned Ms Andruska in order to discuss a strategy for an investigation. Mr Clothier adverted to the Player Rules and the powers therein. Ms Andruska responded with words to the effect of “we can use the AFL’s powers until we get our own powers”
This was notably referred to by the courts as well.
The club was tipped off and warned by Andrew Demetriou in Feb 2013.
Its worth noting that both the AFL and Evans deny that this happened. The ACC even said that Demetriou did not have the club name he would have needed to refer to in the report. If Demetriou did warn Essendon it was based on assumptions that the AFL believed based on information it already had correlated with data in the ACC report.
There were no positive results and no whistleblowers. Their so called evidence was missing a few punchlines. Dank was sacked by Essendon sometime in August 2012. The injections stopped prior to this. There is a gap of some 8 months between the conclusion of the program and the ‘tip off’.

Who are the testers? ASADA? ASADA was testing the players in and out of competition during the course of the supplements program and returned zero positive results from 30-odd A and B samples, from 15 different players.

If anyone was truly tipped off by Essendon it was the Melbourne FC who was utilising Dank at the time.
And the matters pertained to Essendon in 2012. No one else.
  • 2013 – February 5. 9.00am – there was a second ACC briefing to the AFL and ASADA personnel. 11.50am- Mr Clothier attended a meeting with Mr McLachlan, Mr Evans (Chairman of Essendon), Mr Hird, and Mr Robson (then CEO of Essendon). Mr Clothier said that the AFL had received information from ASADA about Essendon. The information was about the high performance area of Essendon and the alleged dubious practices concerning supplements during 2012. At that meeting Mr Clothier said that “there will be a joint investigation”. 1.30pm – Mr Robson telephoned Ms Andruska of ASADA. He said that he had briefed the players approximately two hours ago, and that he wanted a full and complete investigation. To that end, he told Ms Andruska that an Essendon press conference would take place later that day. LeGrand alleges that ASADA had already decided to investigate Essendon before this call.
its also worth noting that Worksafe Victoria cleared 9 other clubs, but not Essendon
  • 2015, February 23. Worksafe Victoria clears nine AFL clubs (Collingwood, Carlton, Geelong, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North Melbourne, Richmond, St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs ), but but the Victorian WorkCover Authority's probe into Essendon and the AFL continues.
The tip off was no favour to Essendon, it was the coffin itself.
Maybe. But it was a coffin Essendon built one way or the other.

(Note Bullet point responses taken from my timeline created for Bigfooty and Footyindustry.com - here and here.)
 

JoondalupJ

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HA HA HA HA HA ! Well I am old but very observant and all that rambling from me comes from what I saw reported or bulldusted about, and there was never any concrete news report from anyone ever because it was all secreted away, hearsay, mostly?

And 34 blokes got branded.

Maybe they were all made men from the Sopranos, heh heh!
 

JoondalupJ

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This ignores the fact that Essendon was involved in some shady stuff was widely known throughout the AFL industry before the ACC report - hell rumours were here on Bigfooty some time before this.
  • 2013 – January 31. ASADA and the AFL discussed certain matters arising from the ACC “Project Aperio”. Mr Paul Jevtovic of the ACC was in attendance. A briefing document was prepared, naming, amongst others, Essendon. Ms Andruska attended the meeting and took notes (as was her practice). The AFL attendees were Mr Andrew Demetriou (CEO), Mr Gillon McLachlan (Deputy CEO), and Mr Brett Clothier (Manager – Integrity Services). Mr McLachlan asked: “Is it Essendon?” Mr Jevtovic replied: “say no more”.


But the AFL did under its player contracts, and those powers were relied upon by ASADA in conjunction with the AFL.
  • 2013 – February 1. Mr Clothier telephoned Ms Andruska in order to discuss a strategy for an investigation. Mr Clothier adverted to the Player Rules and the powers therein. Ms Andruska responded with words to the effect of “we can use the AFL’s powers until we get our own powers”
This was notably referred to by the courts as well.


Its worth noting that both the AFL and Evans deny that this happened. The ACC even said that Demetriou did not have the club name he would have needed to refer to in the report. If Demetriou did warn Essendon it was based on assumptions that the AFL believed based on information it already had correlated with data in the ACC report.


And the matters pertained to Essendon in 2012. No one else.
  • 2013 – February 5. 9.00am – there was a second ACC briefing to the AFL and ASADA personnel. 11.50am- Mr Clothier attended a meeting with Mr McLachlan, Mr Evans (Chairman of Essendon), Mr Hird, and Mr Robson (then CEO of Essendon). Mr Clothier said that the AFL had received information from ASADA about Essendon. The information was about the high performance area of Essendon and the alleged dubious practices concerning supplements during 2012. At that meeting Mr Clothier said that “there will be a joint investigation”. 1.30pm – Mr Robson telephoned Ms Andruska of ASADA. He said that he had briefed the players approximately two hours ago, and that he wanted a full and complete investigation. To that end, he told Ms Andruska that an Essendon press conference would take place later that day. LeGrand alleges that ASADA had already decided to investigate Essendon before this call.
its also worth noting that Worksafe Victoria cleared 9 other clubs, but not Essendon
  • 2015, February 23. Worksafe Victoria clears nine AFL clubs (Collingwood, Carlton, Geelong, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North Melbourne, Richmond, St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs ), but but the Victorian WorkCover Authority's probe into Essendon and the AFL continues.


Maybe. But it was a coffin Essendon built one way or the other.

(Note Bullet point responses taken from my timeline created for Bigfooty and Footyindustry.com - here and here.)
You say Essendon was involved in some shady stuff? At the start of your comment, what was that shady stuff?
Everything is guess work and he says she says comments, no one agrees with everyone , yet they convict 28 players, and people wonder why I call it a load of hoodwinking and a lot of ego and a fair share of bullshit, oh, and al;so an individual sent into a devastating depression , and I still have no idea what crime was committed by who???????
 

JoondalupJ

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You say Essendon was involved in some shady stuff? At the start of your comment, what was that shady stuff?
Everything is guess work and he says she says comments, no one agrees with everyone , yet they convict 28 players, and people wonder why I call it a load of hoodwinking and a lot of ego and a fair share of bullshit, oh, and al;so an individual sent into a devastating depression , and I still have no idea what crime was committed by who???????
Sorry that was meant to say 34 players!
 

blueboy25

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You say Essendon was involved in some shady stuff? At the start of your comment, what was that shady stuff?
the rapid diversification into exotic supplements, sharp increase in frequency of injections, the shift to treatment offsite in alternative medicine clinics, emergence of unfamiliar suppliers, marginalization of traditional medical staff etc

Nothing shady there, all above board.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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HA HA HA HA HA ! Well I am old but very observant and all that rambling from me comes from what I saw reported or bulldusted about, and there was never any concrete news report from anyone ever because it was all secreted away, hearsay, mostly?

And 34 blokes got branded.

Maybe they were all made men from the Sopranos, heh heh!
Nah, you failed to grasp the facts way back then and you still haven’t got your head around them.

You’re just warbling bullshit, as per usual.
 

The_Wookie

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You say Essendon was involved in some shady stuff? At the start of your comment, what was that shady stuff?
The rumour mill was rife everywhere in the lead up, and was probably partially responsible for a warning Demetriou gave about sport scientists in 2012. Go back and read the threads for yourself.

Everything is guess work and he says she says comments, no one agrees with everyone , yet they convict 28 players, and people wonder why I call it a load of hoodwinking and a lot of ego and a fair share of bullshit, oh, and al;so an individual sent into a devastating depression , and I still have no idea what crime was committed by who???????
Then go back and read the judgements. Its public information. Less from senile former cricketers, more from actual legal sources. Glad I could help.
 

blackshadow

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The rumour mill was rife everywhere in the lead up, and was probably partially responsible for a warning Demetriou gave about sport scientists in 2012. Go back and read the threads for yourself.



Then go back and read the judgements. Its public information. Less from senile former cricketers, more from actual legal sources. Glad I could help.
JJ could well be a senile cricketer...
 

JoondalupJ

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The rumour mill was rife everywhere in the lead up, and was probably partially responsible for a warning Demetriou gave about sport scientists in 2012. Go back and read the threads for yourself.



Then go back and read the judgements. Its public information. Less from senile former cricketers, more from actual legal sources. Glad I could help.
Judgements of who? Until someone ( or someones ?) come out and admit that they were all doped up with performance-enhancing drugs , then it is all maybes, to me. As I have said on many occasions beyond a reasonable doubt, to get literally hanged for the lying that was going on or the refusal to speak boggles my mind.
What ever charge or crime anyone wants to call what happened, how can 34 players be penalised when the inner workings of Essendon the coaches the admin the bureaucrats inside Essendon the sports experts, the doctors. Who was organising all this MAYBE drug cheating?? What if young blokes just wnet along with the "powers that be" I think thats pretty simple ,no real law breaking was investigated, no real proof was available , notr to any of us anyway.

This was about a bloody game of football for crying out loud?
 

blackshadow

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Judgements of who? Until someone ( or someones ?) come out and admit that they were all doped up with performance-enhancing drugs , then it is all maybes, to me. As I have said on many occasions beyond a reasonable doubt, to get literally hanged for the lying that was going on or the refusal to speak boggles my mind.
What ever charge or crime anyone wants to call what happened, how can 34 players be penalised when the inner workings of Essendon the coaches the admin the bureaucrats inside Essendon the sports experts, the doctors. Who was organising all this MAYBE drug cheating?? What if young blokes just wnet along with the "powers that be" I think thats pretty simple ,no real law breaking was investigated, no real proof was available , notr to any of us anyway.

This was about a bloody game of football for crying out loud?
Maybe it's a bit much to expect the pig ignorant to actually form opinions based on reality.
 

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