List Mgmt. The possibility of needing to bottom out

HODGEYROAD

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Why is 30+ a gauge? Sam Mitchell was 31 in 2013 I guess we should of started a rebuild then.
I've said numerous times being old is fine when you're a contender, it's almost expected, but it's is concerning when you're a middle of the road side ( which is what we are )
 

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Pessimistic

TheBrownDog
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All the recent premiership sides and current best sides have been built on a core of drafted players with top ups gained thru trades to plug holes including us.
We have decided to go the opposite way at present.
I really don’t like it. I can’t warm to blokes like Wingard. Whether or not he ever recaptures the form he showed 3 years ago, and I seriously doubt it, he just doesn’t get my hawk juices going.
What does get me invested in the team is seeing young blokes develop and blossom into stars. Blokes like Hardwick, Sicily and, dare I say it, Burton.
At present we have a handful of ring-in stars, a handful of aging premiership players and precious little else below them. We have no one 21 or under who remotely looks like being a star, bar Worps perhaps who looks promising.
We paid full price for the stars because they are a known talent but they are 25+. The way to get ahead of the pack is to pick kids and develop them so that you keep paying unders for them. This also brings the supporters along for the ride as there is still a bit of romanticism in seeing youngsters bleed for the brown and gold over the course of a career.
Interesting times ahead. Ruff, Poppy, Burger, Birch and Shoe are finished already and Chip, Smith, Hendo, Stratts and BB are not far behind.
Do you reckon 'romanticism' rate a mention in any of GWs meetings?
 

Kinghts 24

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That would be with Birchall, Mitchell, Wingard and Smith out injured.

Box hill just completed a near AFL standard game v Footscray and Schoenmakers, Roughead, Pittonet, Glass could easily be in the emergencies
But thats's what depth is, how deep you bat when you have injuries.

And at the moment we're weak on that measure.
 
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beta_condition

Norm Smith Medallist
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I’d argue a series of drafts set up our dynasty particularly 2001 and 2004 with some other key players like Crawford, Croad, Changa, Birch and Cyril all acquired via the draft. It wasn’t one arsey draft that got us to the top, it was the clubs dedication to a draft and development strategy over a period of years. That’s the strategy we have moved away from, to our detriment I think.
2015-2017 we nailed 6 of our 8 selections and belted the trading. Hardwick(22), Mitchell(25), Jom(25), Morrison(20), Lewis(20), Cousins(21), Impey(23), Henderson(30), Worpel(20), Moore(19), Scully(28), Wingard(26), Scrimshaw(21). Thats 13 players added to our best 22 in the space of 3 years. Glass, Ross, Hanrahan, Nash, Jones and Jiath have also showed something.
 

HODGEYROAD

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2015-2017 we nailed 6 of our 8 selections and belted the trading. Hardwick, Mitchell, Jom, Morrison, Lewis, Cousins, Impey, Worpel, Moore, Scully, Wingard, Scrimshaw. Thats 12 players added to our best 22 in the space of 3 years. Glass, Ross, Hanrahan, Nash, Jones and Jiath have also showed something.
Jury is still out on if those players will make it at AFL level, I think you're jumping the gun saying they are nailed selections.
 

beta_condition

Norm Smith Medallist
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Jury is still out on if those players will make it at AFL level, I think you're jumping the gun saying they are nailed selections.
Morrison is already an established AFL talent, people have short term memories or a serious lack of understanding the game if the think otherwise.
 

HODGEYROAD

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Morrison is already an established AFL talent, people have short term memories or a serious lack of understanding the game if the think otherwise.
I have hopes for Harry, I just think it's a little early to call it a nailed selection. He's been played out of position somewhat this season but has seemed to regress, but that isn't unusual for young players.
 

HODGEYROAD

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At pick 74? To even play a game is a good effort, throw in a rising star nomination and playing regular football is a nailed selection.
Whilst I don't disagree with that argument, I was more talking about in regards to our next premiership 22 I think it's to early to say if Harry will be good enough to be a part of that. But yeah I suppose for Pick 74 playing 30 odd games is probably already overs.
 

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Zack

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No chance Popeye retires.

The rest, I agree with
I had Poppy gone a few weeks ago, but since Lewis came into the team and freed him from being our only one on one/three kpf its actually rejuvenated him 2 do what he used 2 do. If we can play a kpf the rest of the year not named Poppy and he's past two to three weeks form continues then agree he gets another year.
 

TylerDurden

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I had Poppy gone a few weeks ago, but since Lewis came into the team and freed him from being our only one on one/three kpf its actually rejuvenated him 2 do what he used 2 do. If we can play a kpf the rest of the year not named Poppy and he's past two to three weeks form continues then agree he gets another year.
He'll get a year.
 

Bugs1977

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He'll get a year.
You’d reckon young Moore would be following his every move on the training track. If he can lift his intensity to Poppy’s level then having Poppy around for another season would be worth it.
 

jaitachi

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Clarko won’t bottom us out. He will put the best side on the park every week. Unfortunately with the lack of depth and a lack of a marking forward who’s played 50 games that probably means no finals and maybe even bottom 4 for us.
So even with our best efforts we may bottom out for just the one year whether we like it or not.
We retire silk rough shoey birch, pick up cogs Patton and a kpf + mid depth in the draft and reset next year.
Not too distressing really. One crappy year and we are back in the game 2020.
Ditch the “let’s bottom out” nonsense as our side’s current weakness will determine that.
Once Mitch is back with a beefed up mid brigade, the rest of the side just start working well again.
Feeling hopeful and enthusiastic with what could be just the time to have a single hard year for a great rebound next year.

Yeh agree we need quite a few key pos players and at least 2 elite (well 2 should b enough) midfielders, I doubt worpel will be elite, even jaeger isn’t considered elite, we only got Mitchell, manmissing 40 poss a game hurts eh, we coulda won 2-3 of our close games we lost
 

OnceKicked50

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It seems the narrative from the club has changed mid-season and the club now considers we are in transition. I'm OK with that, although I do think the club should be judged this season on our clear ambition to play finals at a minimum.

What I'm most interested in is some talk about 2021/2022 being a time we are aiming to contend again. I'll always trust the blokes currently making decisions over our list management, but I find it difficult to see how we can make this happen.

For one, I don't see the gun key forward and back, Lynch and McGovern, available anytime soon as a free agent. Trading in any good key position talent will cost us draft picks.

Secondly, in 2022 all of McEvoy, Smith, Stratton, Puopolo and Burgoyne will no longer be on the list. Whilst Gunston, Bruest, Scully and Shiels will be in their 30's. Wingard 29. We just don't have the under 23 talent coming through, for good reason, to replace these guys and the holes we already have on our list.

Ultimately, I feel the club thought, and probably with good reason, the window was now whilst we have the blokes above still playing, and all played well last year.

I feel it's a really delicate space the list is in. If we are committing to 2022 as the realistic time, then you have to wonder if we are better off exploring the trade value of the blokes mentioned and trying to get more under 23 talent to place around Mitchell, O'Meara, Sicily, Hardwick, Impey, Worpel and Wingard for a longer period.
 

beta_condition

Norm Smith Medallist
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Re the past 2 years. While the team hasnt performed as well as could have been expected, the competition wasn’t that strong either

Consider t Mitchell and rioli in this team. It was very close

I’m still giving the admin a big tick
The compeition is so tight a few players in or out can really make a significant difference eg Geelong 🤮
 

Davo-27

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well with our horror run home as far as the draw is concerned, it looks like we may end the season with between 9 - 11 wins, that is what is predicted(if we defeat most/all teams outside of the top 4), IF it works out that way where does that put us on the ladder? 9th-14th somewhere?

we play 5 games against top 4, 1 game against 5th-8th, 3 games against 9th-14th and 2 games against bottom 4 sides
 

Davo23

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We want to bottom out sooner?

Well, follow the Carlton model: hire Stephen Silvagni as List Manager, and recruit his 2 sons to play for us: we will bottom out much more quickly.
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