The Premiership Standard - 100pts for, 86 pts against

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Freomaniac

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Well from a Geelong perspective our scoring has dried right up second half of the season.
Is that flag winning football, I don’t know
May I remind you, your current side is statistically weaker than All 3 of Ross Lyons GF sides of 2009, 2010 and 2013.

Hell freo were averaging 93 points a game and conceding 68 in 2013
 

Freomaniac

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And that 3rd AFL side will sack within two years! He's done, he's toast, he's history, the trophy cabinet is bare, he's an ex -coach!
that 3rd team might be essendon or GWS or Possibly..... Saint Kilda lol.

i just need to remind you. For all your dislike towards Ross Lyon. your team is actually weaker to all 3 of ross Lyons GF sides of the saints 2009 and 2010 teams and freos 2013 side. Freo was averaging 92.5 points a game and conceding 68.
 

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Freomaniac

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Freo scored 62 in the 2013 GF after scoring 87 in the QF and 99 in the PF.

Last year was 69 in the QF and 83 in the SF. 2012 was 96 and 71.

Freo haven't scored 100 in a final since the 2006 SF against Melbourne when they scored 102, their only triple figure finals score.

Scoring 100 en route to the GF doesn't mean that much. We put 24 goals past North in 2012 but only 9 past Collingwood a week later. The year earlier we scored 101 against Carlton but couldn't get past the 60s against Geelong and Collingwood who were the eventual grand finalists.

The 'you must score 100' thing is an average and a guide, but if you're only scoring 60-80 against the top sides it makes it tough because you're relying on keeping them to less than 10 goals to get the win.
your thoughts on the last 3 premiership sides from 2016-18? None of them averaged the 100 points for, 86 points against target.

none of the 2019 sides scored 100 points on average during the season. Only Brisbane and Geelong have averaged 90 points a game in attack.
 

Freomaniac

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You had to bring up a season 22 years ago to disprove the stat?
you can now add the last 3 teams of 2016-18.

you can also add any side of the current 2019 finals teams as well. Regardless who wins the 2019 flag, none of them averaged 100 points a game in attack. All of them have been good defensively concceding less than 86 points a game.


Yes, because it's ridiculous. The OP never said it was every year, but if you can only find 3 in 21 years (05, 01, 94) I dare say it's "not a bullcrap stat".
Now its slowly coming a trend. This season is no different.

last 3 flag winnners.....

2016 dogs: 84 points for 72 points against
2017 tigers: 90.5 points for, 76.5 points against
2018 eagles: 91 points for, 75 points against.

Hell the 2018 collingwood GF side was averaging 93 points for and 77 points against.

Again, not one side averaged 100 points a game in attack.

Only 2 sides this season has averaged 90 points a game in attack: Geelong and Brisbane.

every side has got a premiership standard defensively.


you can only play who you play, but come on. look at the opposition the games they won are against lower teams on the ladder teams, the games they lost are against top 8 teams.

these stats mean nothing till half way through the season
partially true. But all is revealed after 22 games.

Go take a look at our defense in 1999 when we won our last flag, it's not even top 8 standard. Means nothing.
go look at the current 8 teams that make the finals
 

Scotland

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your thoughts on the last 3 premiership sides from 2016-18? None of them averaged the 100 points for, 86 points against target.

none of the 2019 sides scored 100 points on average during the season. Only Brisbane and Geelong have averaged 90 points a game in attack.
Scoring is down from 2015 so it would make sense that teams score more points and concede fewer. Richmond 17 and WC 18 were both 92 for 74 against on average in their flag years. H&A average score was 89 in 2017 and 83 in 2018. Richmond averaged 101 in the 2017 finals, WC 95 in 2018.

WB 16 were quite a low scoring side overall at 86-73 but they hit form at the right time scoring 99, 107, 89 and 89 in their 4 finals to average 96.

Ross Lyon is gone mate, no need to try and reinvent history to paint his St Kilda and Freo sides as attacking. They weren't, and their scoring dropped off a cliff in finals.
 

JackFlash

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Lyon is a dour coach, to him it's trench warfare, what will be conflicting to his ultimate battle plan is he possesses the best and most exciting player in the AFL. He can't hold him back, in some ways he's caught between a rock and a hard place with Fyfe. I doubt you can 'Lyonise" Nat Fyfe, so it is Ross Lyon who has to adapt in 2015, Fyfe is not going to play "smotherball". To beat Hawthorn or any of the other top three in a Grand Final his team will need to score 14 maybe 15 goals, it's not easy watching Lyon's teams play the game like a couple of boa constrictors. Fyfe unleashed is still the key to Freo, so far no one else knows how to shut that door tight. No matter how many plaudits Lyon receives for his coaching, he still has no cigar, he still plays it ugly, but he has a diamond in the pack and that could very well be the "Ace" he needs to win this year.
Even way back in 2015 i was on the ball and whoever is the new Freo coach, he must let Fyfe loose and rid him of any "Lyonisation" .....Freo to finish 8th in 2020!
 

Freomaniac

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Scoring is down from 2015 so it would make sense that teams score more points and concede fewer. Richmond 17 and WC 18 were both 92 for 74 against on average in their flag years. H&A average score was 89 in 2017 and 83 in 2018. Richmond averaged 101 in the 2017 finals, WC 95 in 2018.

WB 16 were quite a low scoring side overall at 86-73 but they hit form at the right time scoring 99, 107, 89 and 89 in their 4 finals to average 96.

Ross Lyon is gone mate, no need to try and reinvent history to paint his St Kilda and Freo sides as attacking. They weren't, and their scoring dropped off a cliff in finals.
are you making excuses?

you tell me that 3, now going to be the last 4 premiership sides have not averaged 100 points a game in attack?

the fact that Geelong who finished top this year are averaging 90 points for and 66 against. This geelong side is less attacking than all 3 Ross Lyon grand final sides!
 

Freomaniac

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Even way back in 2015 i was on the ball and whoever is the new Freo coach, he must let Fyfe loose and rid him of any "Lyonisation" .....Freo to finish 8th in 2020!
so what you are saying in 2015, Nathan fyfe was shackled by ross lyon?

Ross Lyon chained nathan fyfes balls to the ground?

and you see freo more attacking next season with a new coach?
 

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Freomaniac

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Now for the 2019 Edition ladies and Gentleman.....

Geelong: 90.18 points FOR, 66.45 points AGAINST
Brisbane: 91.09 points FOR, 77 points AGAINST
Richmond: 86 Points FOR, 75.63 points AGAINST
Collingwood: 85.68 points FOR, 72.77 points AGAINST.

West coast: 86.45 points FOR, 76.86 points AGAINST
Greater Western Sydney: 87.54 points FOR, 75.86 Points AGAINST
Western Bulldogs: 88.22 points FOR, 82.27 points AGAINST
Essendon: 77.36 points FOR, 81.09 Points AGAINST



Not one team has averaged 100 points a game in Attack. 2 teams are lucky to get over the 90 points a game in attack. Take away essendon, each side at 77 points a game, Each side is averaging between 85-91 points per game.

On the other hand, each side has conceded less than 86 points a game. Geelong is the undisputed number 1 defensive side conceding 66 points a game. Thats either 9.12.66 or 10.6.66 they concede. the rest average between 76-82 points per game.

So you got a bunch of sides that struggle to score and yet can either defend well or face teams that struggle to attack. In which results in a low scoring game. Sounds like your average Ross Lyon coached side to me!
So the 2019 GF sides are Richmond and GWS.

Richmond is averaging 86 points in attack, 75.63 points in defence

GWS is averaging 87.54 points in attack, 75.86 points in defence
 

Hawk_francais

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irrelevant.


Its about the 22 regular season games and finals.

the point is not even Hawthorn averaged 100 points in attack this year
Well it's relevant insofar as Brisbane 2001 did not achieve the 'premiership standard' over the whole season, but like the Tigers overcame a slow start to get there.

It's cool that we've got two teams who are neck and neck over the course of the season, but we'll see how much form and experience count for on Grand Final day.
 

Freomaniac

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Well it's relevant insofar as Brisbane 2001 did not achieve the 'premiership standard' over the whole season, but like the Tigers overcame a slow start to get there.

It's cool that we've got two teams who are neck and neck over the course of the season, but we'll see how much form and experience count for on Grand Final day.
Richmond won 114-27 over GWS.

yep, despite averaging 86 points a game in attack in the regular season, they scored 100 points again in the grand final
 

Freomaniac

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So Champion Data has been tweeting some interesting stats. 14 of the last 15 premiers have averaged >100 points for and <86 points against. 14 of the last 15. The exception was 2001, however from Round 10 onwards the Lions averaged 80.6 points against, so fair to say they had a slow start.

Thought it might be interesting to keep an eye on this and see how it goes. Currently it looks like this:

Fremantle - 87.4 points FOR, 64.5 points AGAINST
West Coast -
105.1 points FOR, 68.5 points AGAINST
Sydney - 89.3 points FOR, 67.8 points AGAINST
Hawthorn - 110.1 points FOR, 72.1 points AGAINST
Collingwood - 98.5 points FOR, 77.4 points AGAINST



They're probably the main contenders at the minute. Interesting (to me at least) because statistical correlations like this over a lengthy period can usually be relied on. So is Ross Lyon still not scoring enough to finally win a flag?
Now for the 2020 Edition Ladies and Gentleman....

Port Adelaide: 69.70 points FOR, 51.11 Points AGAINST
Brisbane:
69.70 points FOR, 55.76. Points AGAINST
Richmond
: 66.76 Points FOR, 51.41 Points AGAINST
Geelong:
72.52 points FOR, 53.00 points AGAINST

West coast
: 64.41 Points FOR, 55.05 Points AGAINST
Saint Kilda:
68.17 Points FOR, 58.64 Points AGAINST
Bulldogs: 64.88 Points FOR, 60.82 Points AGAINST
Collingwood:
56.76 Points FOR, 51.23 Points AGAINST




Well..... a very interesting table.....

I gues no team averaged 100 points a game in attack. Yet All sides conceded less than 86 points a game in defence.

yeah those 15-16 minute quarters played a hand.
 

Freomaniac

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Even way back in 2015 i was on the ball and whoever is the new Freo coach, he must let Fyfe loose and rid him of any "Lyonisation" .....Freo to finish 8th in 2020!
I was gutted with your prediction. Would of been Good if J-lo got us a finals spot this season.
 

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