Hot Topic The Pres, CEO & the Board

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cookie monster

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He does have / has had reasons for concern, but you have to look at the more recent progress in the way we've gone about our business.
i.e. Coach appointment, CEO appointment and now the Football Manager appointment. Not one of which smacks of any particular favouritism nor for flawed logic and execution.

The fact we've gone through this year without placing extra heat on the coach is quite a mature sign from the club. It is.
It seems to me that the testosterone, arrogance and bully tactics have been tempered and more sound methods employed.

I've been as harsh a critic of MLG as any here, but nothing would please me more than to swallow humble pie, shake his hand and say, "Thank you Mark"
We're not there yet and let's keep our eyes open, but maybe, just maybe, a leopard can change its spots.
Decent post on the whole situation. Agree on all points.

We keep our eyes and ears open, having blind faith in the club after recent history is ignorant.
 

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teagueyubeauty

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Don't misconstrue my hypothesis.

MLG was asked a question 4 times which he could have easily answered directly "no" unless there was some truth to the matter. He was given multiple opportunities to give a clear answer and would not. He tried to duck the question saying "if I answer you on one candidate you will start asking about all candidates" - when told he would not be asked about any other candidates, he STILL refused to answer. Thats a fact. Its a horrendous look, and I'm embarrassed for the club.
Ever thought he’s treating them with the contempt they deserve?

He said multiple times he strongly encouraged Lethlean to apply for the role. That is the only fact that matters, not answering to the media’s bullshit by asking the same question multiple different ways in the hope to catch him out or trip over his own tongue!!
 

cookie monster

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I found it encouraging that the president nominated someone but our process appointed someone else. It demonstrates a strong system
Sorry, what?
The "independent nominations committee", nominates people to the board.
MLG is the chair of the nominations committee so there isn't a situation here where he is removed and good governance takes over.
As an aside, how does a committee act independently of the board when the chairman is the same across both vessels?
 

teagueyubeauty

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Spare me the condescending "hurt" stuff. Like most clubs, we had a democratic process for board member appointment. This was changed by MLG.....for what purpose?
Ensuring skill sets needed are represented on the board, not to ensure branch stacking to get an advantage.

Its actually classed as good corporate governance across many industries including many foreign the successful clubs in the AFL.

Will ensure we never have again 3 lawyers/barristers sitting on a board wasting space and providing absolutely zero initiatives except shoring up votes.

Put your hand up, if you’re an expert in community engagement I believe there’s a spot on the board for the taking - someone that is a CEO of a non for profit organisation or local council that has absolute expertise in local communities and fundraising.
 

Jimmae

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Sorry, what?
The "independent nominations committee", nominates people to the board.
MLG is the chair of the nominations committee so there isn't a situation here where he is removed and good governance takes over.
As an aside, how does a committee act independently of the board when the chairman is the same across both vessels?
The other two members are independent. You're taking the use of the word too literally here, but what's important is that we have relatively independent agents as part of the hiring and nomination processes.

I also find it hard to believe that you're capable of understanding some fairly heady concepts, but as soon as there's a whiff of the board or the footy department, you suddenly say the most negative, obtuse and inflammatory comment possible.

Not even the greatest of genuine detractors are that consistent.
 

mediumsizered

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Wow some pretty strong language from a former board mod.

What has the club done in the last 20 years, which you would point to as saying that should negate any critical analysis of decision making? We are in our current quagmire because of decision making made by an incompetent administration that did not know what they were doing.

We made an error with Andrew McKay in appointing a Green Football GM. We have done the exact same thing here. Time will tell if it's a good decision, but why would you not go for the known quantity?

Jury is largely out on this administration, granted. but the underhanded tactics to try and employ Lethlean without the board's permission, and the resignation of the main antagonist to that appointment since then, would tell me that the same old sh*t is going on down at Carlton FC.

The lack of critique on decision making for the last two decades is why we are in this situation. There's no need to shoot down the opposing arguments to suit your narrative
I'm not sure what my status as a former Mod has to do with this. I think it would be fair to say it certainly has nothing to do with how/what I post.

What happened 20 years ago, 10 years ago, even 5 years ago is irrelevant. What we have witnessed in the last 3 years is key appointments being made after what, for all intents & purposes, have been proper due diligence & employment processes. Can't ask for more than this & if MLG has tried to circumvent these processes, good on the board for sticking to the processes regardless (such a shame we didn't have a board with the kahunas to stand up to Elliott all those years ago).

You continue to rattle on about Lethlean as if you & Caroline Wilson are one & the same person. He did not get our CEO position (nor the positions at Collingwood & Hawthorn) so this is all that matters. He is St Kilda's head of footy & things aren't exactly going swimmingly in the Footy Dept down there. Suffice to say we may have dodged a bullet there.

You have got yourself all worked up about the appointment of Brad Lloyd as our head of Footy on the basis he is 'green' in such a position. Reality is experienced heads of Footy don't grow on trees & at various stages AFL clubs have had to take punts on coaches (I well remember the head shaking when Clarkson originally got the nod at Hawthorn), List Managers, Heads of Footy, even players. Get it right (see Clarkson) & you look like a genius. Get it wrong e.g. Tim Watson, Mark Neeld, Kevin Bartlett, Rodney Eade at the Suns etc etc, & then all hell breaks loose.

Again, I'm not interested in what has happened in the distant past. I'm seeing a club which is now participating in the AFL rather than constantly angling against it. It will take a while to see the fruits of this new (for our club) approach, but I'm confident we will.
 

mediumsizered

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Kate Jenkins left for career reasons. We were lucky to have her as long as we did. I follow her on Twitter and she is very busy but has always been an eloquent and positive speaker about Carlton.
Only 2 weeks ago she appeared on Fox Footy's 'On The Mark' & spoke glowingly of the club's direction. I don't know how it could be construed that her leaving the board was anything but a decision made for career reasons.
 

AceAndy

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Only 2 weeks ago she appeared on Fox Footy's 'On The Mark' & spoke glowingly of the club's direction. I don't know how it could be construed that her leaving the board was anything but a decision made for career reasons.
I did hear a couple of months ago the government were funding an inquiry into workplace harassment (something along those lines :think:) and this was the to be the first of its kind in the world and they had committed a large amount of money and Kate Jenkins would be running this inquiry.

It occurred to me she is going to be busy for at least the next 12 months so i was not surprised when she stepped down.
 

mediumsizered

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I did hear a couple of months ago the government were funding an inquiry into workplace harassment (something along those lines :think:) and this was the to be the first of its kind in the world and they had committed a large amount of money and Kate Jenkins would be running this inquiry.

It occurred to me she is going to be busy for at least the next 12 months so i was not surprised when she stepped down.
Well played.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-20/ahrc-to-launch-inquiry-into-sexual-harassment/9887268
"In a world first, the Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) will launch an independent national inquiry into sexual harassment in the workplace.

The 12-month investigation will be carried out by the sex discrimination commissioner, Kate Jenkins."
 

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cookie monster

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The other two members are independent. You're taking the use of the word too literally here, but what's important is that we have relatively independent agents as part of the hiring and nomination processes.

I also find it hard to believe that you're capable of understanding some fairly heady concepts, but as soon as there's a whiff of the board or the footy department, you suddenly say the most negative, obtuse and inflammatory comment possible.

Not even the greatest of genuine detractors are that consistent.
Similarly, I find it hard to believe that, despite purporting to be the bastion of all internal machinations at Carlton FC, you are perfectly fine with 1/3 members of an independent nominations committee belonging to the actual board of Carlton. Notwithstanding that this member is actually the chairman in both instances. It stinks.

I am concerned about the Lloyd appointment, given the most recent failure in the same position was the employment of a similarly green candidate. Both have experience in football administration, but none in actual football department management, or more importantly in our situation - coaching. I'm willing to give him a go, but I would just prefer we are going for the known quantity. But can anybody actually see Matthew Lloyd's brother being able challenge Stephen Silvagni on his decision making, when the questions need to be asked? Whereas I don't think Neil Balme or Graham Wright would have any such issue.

As for my commentary, your statement simply isn't true. I've been vocal recently because I think recent moves have reinforced to me that MLG is bad news, and I think that quite rightly decision making needs to be called into question. As HARKER said earlier in this thread, I couldn't be happier to shake the bloke's hand and congratulate him on our club's success, but my fear is currently we are building to mediocre culmination of another rebuild campaign
 

Metalcrusher

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I'm not sure what my status as a former Mod has to do with this. I think it would be fair to say it certainly has nothing to do with how/what I post.

What happened 20 years ago, 10 years ago, even 5 years ago is irrelevant. What we have witnessed in the last 3 years is key appointments being made after what, for all intents & purposes, have been proper due diligence & employment processes. Can't ask for more than this & if MLG has tried to circumvent these processes, good on the board for sticking to the processes regardless (such a shame we didn't have a board with the kahunas to stand up to Elliott all those years ago).

You continue to rattle on about Lethlean as if you & Caroline Wilson are one & the same person. He did not get our CEO position (nor the positions at Collingwood & Hawthorn) so this is all that matters. He is St Kilda's head of footy & things aren't exactly going swimmingly in the Footy Dept down there. Suffice to say we may have dodged a bullet there.

You have got yourself all worked up about the appointment of Brad Lloyd as our head of Footy on the basis he is 'green' in such a position. Reality is experienced heads of Footy don't grow on trees & at various stages AFL clubs have had to take punts on coaches (I well remember the head shaking when Clarkson originally got the nod at Hawthorn), List Managers, Heads of Footy, even players. Get it right (see Clarkson) & you look like a genius. Get it wrong e.g. Tim Watson, Mark Neeld, Kevin Bartlett, Rodney Eade at the Suns etc etc, & then all hell breaks loose.

Again, I'm not interested in what has happened in the distant past. I'm seeing a club which is now participating in the AFL rather than constantly angling against it. It will take a while to see the fruits of this new (for our club) approach, but I'm confident we will.
Irrelevant IF we have taken the negatives and grown/learnt from them.
 

Gethelred

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But can anybody actually see Matthew Lloyd's brother being able challenge Stephen Silvagni on his decision making, when the questions need to be asked?
Leaving aside the rest for the moment, Cookie, d'you know Brad Lloyd? Do you have a good faith basis for thinking that he can't?

Edit: damn you're quick, Aphrodite :oops:
 
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Styxx

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What the dickins does Matthew Lloyd have to do with Brad's ability to do his new job at Carlton other than it's pretty much the only thing you can twist into saying he is the wrong choice?

Still remember when folks criticized the Liddle appointment and so far he has been a great get.
 

slashin_velvet

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What the dickins does Matthew Lloyd have to do with Brad's ability to do his new job at Carlton other than it's pretty much the only thing you can twist into saying he is the wrong choice?

Still remember when folks criticized the Liddle appointment and so far he has been a great get.
Yep - can't judge the bloke on the basis of his brother. And I dont see it as an issue because the footy manager would work with the List Manager. He's not giving sign off on every deal but would instead be validating our cap position (with a finance team) and working on the coaching and fitness/medico situation.
 

SkyhorseTamer

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Similarly, I find it hard to believe that, despite purporting to be the bastion of all internal machinations at Carlton FC, you are perfectly fine with 1/3 members of an independent nominations committee belonging to the actual board of Carlton. Notwithstanding that this member is actually the chairman in both instances. It stinks.

I am concerned about the Lloyd appointment, given the most recent failure in the same position was the employment of a similarly green candidate. Both have experience in football administration, but none in actual football department management, or more importantly in our situation - coaching. I'm willing to give him a go, but I would just prefer we are going for the known quantity. But can anybody actually see Matthew Lloyd's brother being able challenge Stephen Silvagni on his decision making, when the questions need to be asked? Whereas I don't think Neil Balme or Graham Wright would have any such issue.

As for my commentary, your statement simply isn't true. I've been vocal recently because I think recent moves have reinforced to me that MLG is bad news, and I think that quite rightly decision making needs to be called into question. As HARKER said earlier in this thread, I couldn't be happier to shake the bloke's hand and congratulate him on our club's success, but my fear is currently we are building to mediocre culmination of another rebuild campaign
Why wouldn't Lloyd question SOS. It would literally be part of his job. Sos is an adult and would expect it of Lloyd too. I'm interested too as to why what is effectively just a manager has to have experience coaching. What they need is to be able to see if somethings not working and change it. There are companies all over the world that hire good managers, regardless of what industry they come from because management is about people. Look at Warren Buffet, he changed the way people invested. His philosophy was to invest in companies with great management.

Some of the best managers I've ever seen have had no previous history working in the industry they're currently in.
 

Arr0w

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Why wouldn't Lloyd question SOS. It would literally be part of his job. Sos is an adult and would expect it of Lloyd too. I'm interested too as to why what is effectively just a manager has to have experience coaching. What they need is to be able to see if somethings not working and change it. There are companies all over the world that hire good managers, regardless of what industry they come from because management is about people. Look at Warren Buffet, he changed the way people invested. His philosophy was to invest in companies with great management.

Some of the best managers I've ever seen have had no previous history working in the industry they're currently in.
Mindset
 

gab213

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How does the Liddle vs Lethlean thing not fit my narrative? Campbell wasn't on the board that knocked back Lethlean. We don't know his involvement in the Lethlean discussion. What we can clearly determine - due process was not followed by our president - which contradicts your subsequent statement.

The closeness of Campbell to MLG is clear - he is the only recruiter the club has used for every high level appointment since MLG came to the club. I think that association has the potential to reduce the amount of due diligence in our appointments. The fact that these board changes were done without member vote and without warning, AFTER our president had egg on his face about not following due process is a crazy warning sign. I'm surprised others can't see it.

I sincerely hope I'm mistaken. I would get no joy in the future saying "I told you so", as I would mean another period of failure.

Filling casual vacancies on boards or committees of clubs and associations by appointment is something that is a common practice .The time for members to vote is at an AGM.

This is really a case of nothing to see here.
 

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