Hot Topic The Pres, CEO & the Board

[katmanblue]

I've heard what may have happened, but just thought to get in here early on a topic that may be raised soon enough.
I've been listening to Lethlean and at a distance.....he just sounds like someone who knows how to get things done.
Strange character but that's not the point. Anyway....

Mates with Gil doesn't hurt.

Do you reckon our StK game this year gets changed to Marvel if Lethlean was with us rather than them? I have my doubts.

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[Opine]

I think the whole industry knew he was a shrewd operator. One club was always going to ignore his personal issues and hire him. We didn't.

Spewing we didn't. That scenario is an example of why small organisations need centralised control; rather than having to bow to multiple wills.

 

[Aphrodite]

Mates with Gil doesn't hurt.

Do you reckon our StK game this year gets changed to Marvel if Lethlean was with us rather than them? I have my doubts.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Should have remained at the MCG and it was our home game.

Gill looking after his mate Lethlean!

 

[katmanblue]

Should have remained at the MCG and it was our home game.

Gill looking after his mate Lethlean!

Exactly

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SurreyBlue]

Should have remained at the MCG and it was our home game.

Gill looking after his mate Lethlean!

Gill is also a StKilda supporter. Unlike Fitzpatrick, he is already showing mates rates...

 

[Michael Jezz]

2020 is the equivalent of a Lightning Premiership season. 17 matches playing 16 min quarters, 4 on the bench and we still concede 5 goal starts or blow big leads. When Ratten was coaching, it was the quality of the list that some questioned, (including yours truly) and how good that list was. Many believed it was a list that would win us a flag, when in reality it was an ordinary list as consequently proven. Ratten's coaching experience prior to joining Carlton was having coached Norwood in the EFL and one year as an assistant at Melbourne. He did an admirable job, but was out of his depth. Ratten (MarkII), had a strong apprenticeship at Hawthorn and learned a lot from Clarkson and sadly from personal tragedy. With hindsight, they should have thrown everything at getting him back, but that is spilt milk under the bridge...

We went for MM. His own club did not want him and openly stated that he was physically and mentally struggling and he should retire. Instead of heeding this warning we hired him on a 3 year contract worth millions. MM's motives were to secure a long term contract. The players never took to his game plan which years out of date and predictable. Instead of learning from the mistake of hiring Ratten, we then hired another untested coach. Yes he had credentials as a good assistant, and knowledgeable coach was probably worth the risk. It ended in tears...again. So what do we do after this? We appoint yet another untried coach on a 2.5 year contract! Oh the players liked him, and he is a nice guy.

Circa 2020 where are we? Missed finals again in a shortened season. We were quite fortunate with injuries compared to the other clubs, and you believe we are finals bound? Perhaps, but we are treading water. We just lost 500+ games of experience, serious question about the professionalism and hunger of the group. In effect we are nice guys, like our coach!

We are treading water!!!!

*Richmond: Lost
*Collingwood: Lost
Hawthorn: Lost
Adelaide: Lost
Melbourne: Lost
*Port Adelaide: Lost
*Brisbane: Lost
GWS: Lost
*West Coast: Lost
*St.Kilda: Lost
*denotes playing finals in 2020.
We beat two 2020 finalist.
Geelong at Geelong which was an impressive result, although we were lucky to hang on in the end.
We beat Footscray whom we have had the wood over for the past 3 years.
Essendon by a point!

This is the best post of the year. Interesting when someone paints a realistic picture of where the club is at...it receives few likes

 

[blue healer]

This is the best post of the year. Interesting when someone paints a realistic picture of where the club is at...it receives few likes

In my experience the easiest criticism is that based on history, we can all play that game. The wisdom of retrospect is vast.

As an example, if you were to historically review Brisbane's performances leading up to the end of 2018, how complimentary would it have been?

 

[JustaBattler]

The difference between most of those games mentioned above - is 2-3 genuine AFL players in the side or what we had to put out on the field at the time(s)

Whilst injury to players is a fact of life - developing middling sides struggle when key parts of their better options are not available - that is why they are middling sides - the fact that the side was genuinely vying for one of those bottom 8 positions is an indicator that relative to competition the side has improved. The quarters won statistic is also a telling statistic - we are teasingly close to winning more games than losing - just based on that fact.

That said - it is also true that the development of Dow/Lob and possibly Stocker has hit bumps - and given that these players should by now have been best 22 it is a concern - one of these should be capable of pushing Murphy out by now - or certainly better developed than Cottrell - who will never be best 22 in a finals AFL side - Cuningham has not come on as he may have -another question mark.

All that said - I am pretty confident that finals is a lock for 2021 because:

1. Charlie
2. Williams
3. Marchbank/Newman will be available
and (of course)
a preseason which should see further development of younger players.

There is no doubt pressure on DOw/LoB/Cuningham/SPS/Stocker/Fisher to lift

Setterfield/TDK/Williamson have made the transition.

 

[Moody Blue]

In my experience the easiest criticism is that based on history, we can all play that game. The wisdom of retrospect is vast.

As an example, if you were to historically review Brisbane's performances leading up to the end of 2018, how complimentary would it have been?

In 2013 we finished 8th thanks to the cheats, and Brisbane were one game behind us in 12th spot. They went out and recruited a mature and experienced coach, the former Carlton CEO and recruited a lot of good players including Mitch Robinson thanks to the idiocy of Malthouse and now they are playing finals on a regular basis. They are miles ahead of us.

7 years since our last finals appearance, Carlton is nursing another inexperienced coach and if rumors are to be believed a CEO who is sticking his nose into recruiting and trying to influence who the club targets. SOS never tolerated this, and it probably explains why he is no longer at the club and why the Silvagni's are being purged from the club. The Board as usual is asleep at the wheel. There is and always has been a Game of Thrones mentality at Carlton, and 2021 will be no different.
If we get off to a slow start or it becomes apparent we will not make finals, the blood will flow again from the Board down.
Nobody wins if we have another war..

 

[DirkDiggler]

Next year I expect nothing less than finals. Anything less than the Coach should be in the firing line. Time to deliver. Until then, we need give our club our full support to achieve this goal. I don't want to hear excuses.

 

[Moody Blue]

The difference between most of those games mentioned above - is 2-3 genuine AFL players in the side or what we had to put out on the field at the time(s)

Whilst injury to players is a fact of life - developing middling sides struggle when key parts of their better options are not available - that is why they are middling sides - the fact that the side was genuinely vying for one of those bottom 8 positions is an indicator that relative to competition the side has improved. The quarters won statistic is also a telling statistic - we are teasingly close to winning more games than losing - just based on that fact.

That said - it is also true that the development of Dow/Lob and possibly Stocker has hit bumps - and given that these players should by now have been best 22 it is a concern - one of these should be capable of pushing Murphy out by now - or certainly better developed than Cottrell - who will never be best 22 in a finals AFL side - Cuningham has not come on as he may have -another question mark.

All that said - I am pretty confident that finals is a lock for 2021 because:

1. Charlie
2. Williams
3. Marchbank/Newman will be available
and (of course)
a preseason which should see further development of younger players.

There is no doubt pressure on DOw/LoB/Cuningham/SPS/Stocker/Fisher to lift

Setterfield/TDK/Williamson have made the transition.

This is what we said about Charlie last year, and then he tripped over a blade of grass. I just don't know whether his body can handle the demands of AFL. If Charlie comes back where does that leave McGovern? Huge salary, and from reports a questionable work ethic. Tried him in defense without success. Can we do a Premier League and loan him out?
Our midfield is undermanned and soft. The team needs a harder edge and I just question whether Teague is the guy to do it. Our list has a collection of talented players but none of them have reached expectations. Why?

 

[Moody Blue]

Next year I expect nothing less than finals. Anything less than the Coach should be in the firing line. Time to deliver. Until then, we need give our club our full support to achieve this goal. I don't want to hear excuses.

What about the Board? Three coaches hired and fired, an invisible President and a CEO who is sticking his nose into areas that where the club has supposedly the best people. Oh I can see a ripper GOT next year. Perhaps Aphrodite will throw her hat in the ring. Men clearly are not up to the job. Is it time for a woman to take the reigns at Carlton?

 

[GoBlues!]

With hindsight, they should have thrown everything at getting him back, but that is spilt milk under the bridge...

Nice post moody.

Btw what happened to the water under the bridge and why was it replaced with spilt milk. Was anyone crying over this situation.

 

[Stamos]

Nice post moody.

Btw what happened to the water under the bridge and why was it replaced with spilt milk. Was anyone crying over this situation.

 

[Michael Jezz]

In my experience the easiest criticism is that based on history, we can all play that game. The wisdom of retrospect is vast.

As an example, if you were to historically review Brisbane's performances leading up to the end of 2018, how complimentary would it have been?

The difference is Brisbane were dynamic and have advantages.
Leigh Mathews on the board v Judd
Fagan brought in as coach v Teague
Lachie Neale, Charlie Cameron recruited
Chris Noble is the GM footballv lloyd
Swann v Lloyd
Best Fitness Team v Russel
Own Academy v no academy.


I would argue Carlton have gaps in the match ups around football nouse and natural advantages and as supporters we fall into the trap that success is inevitable

 

[JustaBattler]

This is what we said about Charlie last year, and then he tripped over a blade of grass. I just don't know whether his body can handle the demands of AFL. If Charlie comes back where does that leave McGovern? Huge salary, and from reports a questionable work ethic. Tried him in defense without success. Can we do a Premier League and loan him out?
Our midfield is undermanned and soft. The team needs a harder edge and I just question whether Teague is the guy to do it. Our list has a collection of talented players but none of them have reached expectations. Why?

The biggest reason we are slow to develop players and or poor at it- is because we don't control our own VFL team - most of the Clubs ahead of us - do. We still don't own our own VFL team - probably because the money was never there and the money was never there because membership wasn't high enough. Membership wasn't high enough because our list management and development was way way below par and it reflected in on field performances - its called a doom loop and we were stuck in it until the Board decided to bite the bullet and go for a full rebuild.

A full rebuild takes at least 5-6 years to show evidence of sustainable success - all things going well.

A full rebuild - without the other stuff around it - is prone to failure.

The other stuff includes your own VFL team and a strong coaching panel to assist the coach matched to smart list management and recruiting regime.

We are getting there - but coming from a long long way back.

 

[Opine]

Serious consideration should be given to creating dual and independent executive arms both of which report directly to the board. An allocated director can facilitate resolution of any conflicting crossover between those departments. In this way, the ever present conflict of interest, immediate success v sustainable success, can be dealt with structurally.

 

[gab213]

Serious consideration should be given to creating dual and independent executive arms both of which report directly to the board. An allocated director can facilitate resolution of any conflicting crossover between those departments. In this way.the greatest conflict of interest, immediate success v sustainable success, can be dealt with structurally.

There's one executive arm as there should be. No club has a CEO who is excluded from any of the core business of the club. The CEO ultimately is responsible for the whole of the club's business.

 

[Opine]

There's one executive arm as there should be. No club has a CEO who is excluded from any of the core business of the club. The CEO ultimately is responsible for the whole of the club's business.

Thats the way it’s been done to date; in the AFL. It’s not a novel idea to have structurally independent executive arms reporting directly to a board.

 

[gab213]

Thats the way it’s been done to date; in the AFL. It’s not a novel idea to have structurally independent executive arms reporting directly to a board.

I don't think it's at all necessary. There's an easier solution, don't ever compromise yourself by appointing a club legend to one of the top administrative positions again. It was always going to end in tears.

 

[Opine]

I don't think it's at all necessary. There's an easier solution, don't ever compromise yourself by appointing a club legend to one of the top administrative positions again. It was always going to end in tears.

I agree that it shouldn’t be necessary, it rarely is so. But I don’t think the solution is to avoid appointing a club legend, particularly if that person is very good at what she/he does e.g SOS. Rather, the easiest solution is to appoint the right CEO.

 

[gab213]

I agree that it shouldn’t be necessary, it rarely is so. But I don’t think the solution is to avoid appointing a club legend, particularly if that person is very good at what she/he does e.g SOS. Rather, the easiest solution is to appoint the right CEO.

It wouldn't have mattered who was CEO, eventually there would have been an issue IMO. I was wary of this appointment from the start, not that I didn't think SOS was capable,Ijust thought the appointment was too conflicted and compromised. Close mates with the Pres, the possibility of his sons playing for the club, too many red flags at the time for me. It wasn't a good example of governance right from the get go.

You also have to be able to separate SOS the legendary player from SOS the club employee. Unfortunately,I doubt many fans have been able to do this.

 

[JustaBattler]

There's one executive arm as there should be. No club has a CEO who is excluded from any of the core business of the club. The CEO ultimately is responsible for the whole of the club's business.

It is typical in best practice to separate the financial control function from the operational functions - both heads reporting directly to relevant Board structures.

I agree with you regarding Carlton, that 'pretend' businesses like an AFL Club - necessarily require this level of governance separation. Given an experienced CEO current Club structure and reporting lines are workable.

The problem Carlton had was that it was implementing a rebuild and reset program - whilst changing CEO and Head coach - these are pretty strong indicators of a pivot in strategy at the minimum or a complete failure of certain parts of the rebuild as far as execution goes.

It is pretty clear that any failure ( as in the case of the manner of SOS's exit ) ultimately rests on the shoulders of the President and his closest advisors. To a lesser extent Liddle's lack of experience ( if not lack of competency) in organisational management from a CEO perspective - was also on display.

I do believe that membership growth is relatively a weak and potentially misleading indicator of Liddle's ability to be a high performing CEO in the full sense of the word - the typical proponent of the POV that suggests membership growth is an indicator that Liddle is a good CEO is naive and tbh - dangerous.

2021 will see enormous pressure on both membership and on-field performance as far as KPI go - but above and beyond delivery is the open question of sustainability.

Sustainability - is where the question of both list management and player development becomes more important than short term indicators.
My expectations at this stage regarding sustainability are fairly modest.

I have more confidence in Carlton getting to a finals level of the list than I do in Carlton's ability to get to a high level of player development performance. The Club doesn't control its own VFL team - this handicaps sustainability and culture-building across the organization.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Caught the last bit of an interview with Peggy O'Neil this morning, she was asked how Richmond went from where they were, to a power house club on the verge of a 3 in 4 year premiership?

She stated that she could not understand how whenever things turned bad, the coach would be sacked and she couldn't work out why? Would the players get that much better with the replacement of one "new" coach? No, like Brian Cook, and with the help of Brendan Gale they got the best people onto the board and into the right positions to build success.

From the outside looking in, our president is MIA, half the board members are there for their own prestige and tickets, our CEO is driving out of his lane and there still appears to be mixed messages in the admin, coaching and fitness. Are we going to put together our own competitive VFL team? Geelong, Richmond, Brisbane, Dogs, WCE, Pies all have one.

We are coming from a long way back, our list is looking a whole lot better, but we need stabilisation and good people off field to maintain our on field growth , other wise we will end up with just a talented side.

Richmond on field, have some genuine stars, but their game plan is one that the players have to buy into for it to work. Create chaos, move the ball forward at all times, pressure their midfield to kick long to a contest to give their backs a chance. If they get an injury, it does not matter if the player coming in is not as good as the one going out, as long as they buy into the game plan.

 

[Opine]

It wouldn't have mattered who was CEO, eventually there would have been an issue IMO. I was wary of this appointment from the start, not that I didn't think SOS was capable,Ijust thought the appointment was too conflicted and compromised. Close mates with the Pres, the possibility of his sons playing for the club, too many red flags at the time for me. It wasn't a good example of governance right from the get go.

You also have to be able to separate SOS the legendary player from SOS the club employee. Unfortunately,I doubt many fans have been able to do this.

I don’t know about that Gab; Trigg seemed to have SOS under effective and well functioning control. Moreover, while it may be an issue in some well recognised categories/professional functions involving fiduciary obligations, I doubt that it should extend to preclude an AFL President from engaging a bloody good LM because she/he also happens to be a friend.

As for separating SOS legend player and SOS legend LM; thats easy, he was bloody awesome at both functions. A legend in each pursuit independent of the other. In keeping with this notion of avoiding unwarranted praise, it might be useful to consider Cain the awesome membership salesman and Cain the CEO.