Clearly the players weren't comfortable being uncomfortable.
Hot Topic The Pres, CEO & the Board
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Harker. I agree.
It shows we still have a long way to go to become a well run professional football club.
The issues stem from the board. Role of President and Director of Football is to harmonize the competing factions within the club. In this case between CEO and List Manager.
I am extremely critical of SOS trading. Drafting tho it appears 2017 draft may be a miss, has been ok.
The issues needed to be sorted out at that level. Frankly I still dont understand what Judd actually contributes, as it appears he is MIA in alot of the key football issues he acts as board conduit for.... LM and Coaching.
Utilising Richmond as 1 example, until there is harmony off field, onfield wont click. The SOS incident this has shown that. The club needs to quietly reconcile with its past (that includes Elliot era), as Richmond did with KB.
Further to this, Liddle has done a great job commercially building up membership. However it should be noted, that pre Liddle our member base tended to be Full Members 11game/22game types that generated real revenue and profit. Told to me directly by our GM- Commercial at the time, incidentally same fella now at Brisbane with Swann.
Liddle has chased the 3game types to build that number. We had a bump last year, as we gave out free upgrades. We will have another bump next year as we have given out an extra free memberships.
Long story short, we need to harmonize off field first, for onfield to click
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KohPhi
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- Jul 24, 2015
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Well said.
In the meantime though, im enjoying reading this thread largely made up of posters, who in reality know * all about the inner workings of the club talking like they know about the inner workings of the club.
Edit; and I include myself in that as well!!
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People will often see/choose to see what they want to see, but to even remotely suggest that what happens off-field has no bearing on-field, is really for a lack of understanding, at best.
Even if we don't exactly harmonise off-field, each individual has to be in a position where they garner respect from others and can do their job properly under well-executed processes and protocols.
We don't all have to love each other, we just have to be able to get the most out of one another and not cross-pollinate rolls within the club.
We've been talking unity for how many years now? How exactly has that unity manifested itself? It hasn't has it, but we can go on pretending.
He had Ed Curnow at his disposal, and he stuck him in the forwardline.
Martin, Newnes and Betts are irrelevant to what happened in 2019, when Teague went 6-5 with the same list (but more injuries).
Well said.
In the meantime though, im enjoying reading this thread largely made up of posters, who in reality know fu** all about the inner workings of the club talking like they know about the inner workings of the club.
Edit; and I include myself in that as well!!
Don't be one of those ugly snipers KohPhi that smugly sits back, says nothing but then knocks people for having a discussion about topics in a dedicated thread. What's the point in that? Tell me?
I doesn't matter who's right nor wrong in the end, as it's simply a thread for the purpose of opening up discussion about our club.
KohPhi
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I've got a great recipe for you Harks..
Mix half a cup of facetiousness, add pinch of frivolity, pour in a liberal dash of flippancy, then (s**t) stir whimsically.
Swirl around with tongue in cheek until the drink self deprecates before swallowing with a dash of concrete.
You'll then see my post in a far different light.
I've got a great recipe for you Harks..
Mix half a cup of facetiousness, add pinch of frivolity, pour in a liberal dash of flippancy, then (sh*t) stir whimsically.
Swirl around with tongue in cheek until the drink self deprecates before swallowing with a dash of concrete.
You'll then see my post in a far different light.
How's this recipe KohPhi
Enter a thread with the purpose of either reading it, or being active in it with your point of view.
Seriously though - All good, as it's unlikely you meant anything untoward.
Let's enjoy ourselves though this trade period and maybe we can all leave The President behind
thylacine60
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There will always be a use for your whacking stick.
This is a family board
Didn’t SOS’s appointment come about almost out of desperation after MLG ****ed up trying to get Graeme Wright and couldn’t find anyone to do the job?
Where as Liddle was targeted for his position to replace an experienced and well credentialed CEO. Chief among his KPIs was to increase membership.
SOS had a mess to sort and he’s done his best but it would appear the club has decided Liddle needed to be backed in.
SOS has had his public dummy spit, let’s hope he leaves it at that.......I doubt he will though.
Where as Liddle was targeted for his position to replace an experienced and well credentialed CEO. Chief among his KPIs was to increase membership.
SOS had a mess to sort and he’s done his best but it would appear the club has decided Liddle needed to be backed in.
SOS has had his public dummy spit, let’s hope he leaves it at that.......I doubt he will though.
KohPhi
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How's this recipe KohPhi
Enter a thread with the purpose of either reading it, or being active in it with your point of view.
Seriously though - All good, as it's unlikely you meant anything untoward.
Let's enjoy ourselves though this trade period and maybe we can all leave The President behind
No. and Yes.
My observation would be that Carlton are incredibly united and tight at the moment. Which is what the naysayers have been screaming out for.
From The Pres, to the monolithic term of "The Board" which are people with differing opinions but can agree on decisions, Judd, Liddle, Lloyd, Teague, Austin and Agresta. In fact we are so united that i fear Johnny bloody Barker will not get the tap lol.
If people have been screaming for unitedness and harmony, i don't see how they can't see it that that is what has now been achieved.
It has cost us a headstrong Club Champion, but the joint is now on the one page.
Now to see what comes of it.
I believe even Harks can see this, even though rest will not come until that LoGo resignation is on the desk.
From The Pres, to the monolithic term of "The Board" which are people with differing opinions but can agree on decisions, Judd, Liddle, Lloyd, Teague, Austin and Agresta. In fact we are so united that i fear Johnny bloody Barker will not get the tap lol.
If people have been screaming for unitedness and harmony, i don't see how they can't see it that that is what has now been achieved.
It has cost us a headstrong Club Champion, but the joint is now on the one page.
Now to see what comes of it.
I believe even Harks can see this, even though rest will not come until that LoGo resignation is on the desk.
My observation would be that Carlton are incredibly united and tight at the moment. Which is what the naysayers have been screaming out for.
From The Pres, to the monolithic term of "The Board" which are people with differing opinions but can agree on decisions, Judd, Liddle, Lloyd, Teague, Austin and Agresta. In fact we are so united that i fear Johnny bloody Barker will not get the tap lol.
If people have been screaming for unitedness and harmony, i don't see how they can't see it that that is what has now been achieved.
It has cost us a headstrong Club Champion, but the joint is now on the one page.
Now to see what comes of it.
I believe even Harks can see this, even though rest will not come until that LoGo resignation is on the desk.
This would make for a great outcome and one we'd all want, in order for the club to move forward.
I could pull up posts (although they'd be taken down) that were saying exactly this........and with so much force and conviction a few years back that if you questioned it, you were somehow a conspiracy theorist and couldn't see the forest for the trees. Since then, we've lost our Coach...our CEO....our Head of Football......and our List Manager. So much for unity......but there's always next time.
Every organisation requires strong leadership and there's been little in any time over the course of the last few years that has actually demonstrated this.
It's been one 'unfortunate' situation after another. Can anyone sincerely claim this not to be the case?
Removing myself as a Carlton supporter and given recent history, I'd have to bet on us being the scorpion on the frog. Would be good to lose my money though.
This would make for a great outcome and one we'd all want, in order for the club to move forward.
I could pull up posts (although they'd be taken down) that were saying exactly this........and with so much force and conviction a few years back that if you questioned it, you were somehow a conspiracy theorist and couldn't see the forest for the trees. Since then, we've lost our Coach...our CEO....our Head of Football......and our List Manager. So much for unity......but there's always next time.
Every organisation requires strong leadership and there's been little in any time over the course of the last few years that has actually demonstrated this.
It's been one 'unfortunate' situation after another. Can anyone sincerely claim this not to be the case?
Removing myself as a Carlton supporter and given recent history, I'd have to bet on us being the scorpion on the frog. Would be good to lose my money though.
Harks, do you not think the CURRENT group are united?
If not, tell me who you think is swimming in the opposite direction. Don't worry about the past, talk about the current. They are so united, they are almost a bit buddy buddy now aren't they?
If you can't say they are not currently united, and that has been your bugbear, then i would think you would be currently pleasantly happy. And would be more contented than you have been for a long time. I know you won't be until LoGo's resignation is tendered, that's your prerogative, but deep down you must be currently happy that all the key figures are rowing in the same boat, just as you've longed.
Pres LoGo, CEO Liddle, Footy Director Judd, Head of Footy Lloyd, Coach Teague, Head of Fitness Russell, List Chief Austin and whatever title Agresta's is.
We've turned around the Titanic. Casualties ensued. As a fellow pessimist, or as us pessimists term it, realist, give this lot a shot. It's what you've longed for. A united group running the joint harmoniously and fingers crossed competantly.
I think you can be united and complacent at the same time. I mean a club's personel can sing from the same hymn book and not honestly question key parts of the organisation. I think we won less than half our games and think we are a bit complacent about our coaching staff that translates into a lack of hardness and willingness to win on the field. There is a bit of group think that merely fixing list holes will lead to sustained success
In the simplest of responses; I don't know.....but that's not the point.
Over and again we've seen that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and that's a problem.
It's never what someone does when things are going well that matters, but it's what we do when things are going not so well that counts.
On this front we've failed.
We've employed and then sacked key people time and again...and what does that tell you? It tells me a lot.
If things go well on-field there'll be only chests puffed out and 'I told you so's'.....if they don't though? Let's just spin the wheel again.
Tells me that we are exactly the same as every other professional sporting club trying to achieve success all around the world.
And that some will never be satisfied because complaining for the sake of complaining is a habit.
And that some will never be satisfied because complaining for the sake of complaining is a habit.
I don't know if we are united but I will bag the culture anyway, just, because
It was somewhat sad to see so many of you consuming the kool-aid on offer when we had some sprouting unity around the club, until it all came crashing down and proven that it wasn't there at all.
I'd sooner wait and see results than to spruik propaganda about the club being something it hasn't shown itself to be.....but each to their own.
What flavour would you like?
It was somewhat sad to see so many of you consuming the kool-aid on offer when we had some sprouting unity around the club, until it all came crashing down and proven that it wasn't there at all.
I'd sooner wait and see results than to spruik propaganda about the club being something it hasn't shown itself to be.....but each to their own.
What flavour would you like?
You mean you not seeing it after the Demons game, then all of a sudden seeing it after the Dogs game?
Despite you professing to be somewhat of visionary of what the club is, you have become reactionary
- Mar 20, 2017
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Yep. The high horse is up and running again.
Bolts was coaching for the future. Teague took over & coached for the here & now in 2019, as you would when auditioning for the job permanently. He then had 3 experienced players added to the list for 2020, not to mention getting almost a full season out of Doc.
We still saw a lot of the 2019 & prior bad habits in 2020. Lapses which saw us concede runs of goals, slow starts & even with Curnow back in the middle, a heavy reliance on Cripps. On the plus side we saw Weiters fast becoming the General in defence which he was always going to be & Walsh built on his impressive debut year. McKay got some continuity & showed what he was capable of (shaky kicking for goal aside). Yet despite having a much better & more experienced side on paper this year, we still only won 7 games & suffered a shocking loss against the bottom placed Crows.
The addition of Saad, Williams & maybe a 3rd experienced player (going by some of the rumours), along with our quality younger players moving well into that 50-100 game bracket should lead to further progression, but this will only happen if the players want it badly enough, not because Teague is coach (I'm not knocking Teague, I like him, but I think the role of coaches is generally overrated).
Thehurdle
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I understand your point of view.
SOS’s interview was regrettable. There is quite a lot of evidence pointing to the opposite conclusion though:
+ membership is at an all time high
+ literally a few dozen members asked for a refund due to COVID - ie there is a strong bond being built. This is why time and again the players, coaches and officials have thanked the Club’s members. The Pres and management team deserve a lot of the credit, as well as the members. Their digital comms, database, social media engagement etc is first rate;
+ AFLW team showed a remarkable turnaround;
+ men’s team improving in line with Club forecast;
+ for the most part off field leadership has been very stable, especially at Board and senior management level;
+ but for COVID we would have been debt free for the first time in decades this year;
+ they have secured $40m in government grants to redevelop Princes Park;
+ sound sponsorship, Carlton in Business one of the best of its type - etc
i would argue the Club’s been united - in their silence in response to SOS. I understand his hurt. He shouldn’t have done what he did - but he did. The Club is moving on and respecting the great contribution he made. When he arrived our finances were stuffed, he had nothing in terms of a list nor money to lure players, and the rest is mostly a good story.
From time to time we do kick an own goal Footy clubs can be passionate places, and are more prone to own goals than other businesses (whose mistakes play out in the public every day - Cartier watches gifted by a Collingwood board member and previous CEO of the year, for example). Geelong and Richmond are among the best run clubs, if not the best (Eagles terrific too). We are trying to be in that bracket. Getting there, but it takes time. Looking at others, is there any real debate that we‘re not already ahead of many in the past 6-7 years? I’d take our leadership group over most. I’m not saying each individual is perfect. Many have room to develop, like most leaders. I do think they have done an exceptional job during some really bleak years. Pretty confident we will play finals footy next year, subject to injury risk. It will be a credit to our off field leaders. And yes, if we don’t, questions will be asked. Not such a bad thing.
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