The pressure on the WA government to relax it's rigid border rules

Do you agree with the rigid border rules or do you agree there is room for flexibility?

  • Yes border rules are keeping WA safe

    Votes: 44 53.7%
  • No there needs to be flexibility

    Votes: 38 46.3%

  • Total voters
    82

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Schneebly11

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WA will be open for unrestricted travel by March

Why'd they cancel Feb 5? My thoughts, the WA Public Servants went on holidays over Xmas and New Years and when they got back they realised they hadn't done enough preparatory work, especially seeing how Omicron was tearing through over east.

They knew they needed far more RATs, so the decision was made to legalise them and order in over 25 million which will arrive before end of Feb

They knew they needed rules to ensure the mining production wouldn't be affected, so they're in the process of working those out with the major miners and should be formulated over the next few days.

They know that more boosters will help reduce spread and severe illness, but they also know this time there are time limits. As the CHO advice letter states the protection of those elderly already boosted declines from late March, so you want the peak of the wave to be no later than this. And you also don't want dual Covid and Influenza waves in winter. As the Covid wave is expected to be about 60 days you want it to take off and end before the end of May.

Now that's not assuming the current wave, plus any further seeding cases, doesn't take off exponentially and render the border redundant. As East Coast cases drop then inbound travel proportionally wouldn't add as many cases to the state.

And as the West Australian newspaper continuously points out, as they have done a complete 180 on McGowan this week, you need an open border to bring in those additional healthcare staff and stop the ones here from leaving.

I think McGowan just wants to avoid the scenario of the last 4 weeks in the East, and ensure Miners are happy before he proceeds. Given the arrival dates of the RATs, the waning dates of the boosters and the time length for a wave to pass before winter March is the final deadline, unless the current wave takes off in February rendering that border redundant.
 

Billy ray

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Hell no
I think McGowan just wants to avoid the scenario of ....
.... being the one responsible for opening the border which will stick with him forever, better to have his last call be to keep it shut indefinitely, but for it to seed and spread over late Jan/Feb rendering the closure redundant, and he can blame NSW
 

Brad Goodman

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.... being the one responsible for opening the border which will stick with him forever

That will happen regardless of when he does it - why would you vote for someone who stuck with you for a while and then just threw you to the wolves because the rest of the country's leaders did that to their constituents.
 

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HPKS

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That will happen regardless of when he does it - why would you vote for someone who stuck with you for a while and then just threw you to the wolves because the rest of the country's leaders did that to their constituents.
Don’t take Billy boys bait
 

Billy ray

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Hell no
Usl Championship Soccer GIF by Oakland Roots SC
 

Rob

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Your attempt to portray Covid as not all that much out of the ordinary is, with all due respect, quite laughable.

For the majority of the population, it is very ordinary. There is a clear demographic group that has a signficantly higher risk - that being over 70s. Virtually all resources should be targeted towards protecting that group. For everyone else? Well unless you have other serious medical issues (such as obesity), it's generally not a problem.

So give people the best information to enable them to make an informed decision about whether they should stay home, wear a mask, get vaccinated etc. Let them make an informed choice, instead of scaring the shit out of everyone and imposing mandates.

The reality is that everyone in the country has now had the opportunity to get vaccinated, we've had plenty of time to get the health system ready. We could not be in a better position to live with covid - by delaying covid all you're going to do is have people get older and have more people fall into the risk group.

Driving cars pissed, driving cars quickly, and tragically, suicides as well as diabetes are symptomatic of human actions! For f**k's sake, what is it with people like you. Geez you fall for all the monstrous propaganda from those suffering from gold fever!

People die from influenza because it IS endemic and has been so for a very, very long time however, it's death toll too could be greatly reduced if people did get inoculated and showed a bit of discipline and civic responsibility by not going to work or hanging around in bars and nightclubs or shopping malls when they have the flu; as can be seen by the fact that we did not loose a single life to influenza last year because people curtailed their movements and maintained good hygiene practices due to the outbreak of Covid.

You just made that up.
Partly because the ABS haven't released 2021 causes of death yet, but in 2020, there were 2,287 from the flu and related causes. It's extremely unlikely this dropped to zero.

You also completely ignore the fact that 25% of those who contract Covid-19 suffer from long term and even for-life medical problems like scaring of the lungs and heart, heart conditions, lung conditions, chronic fatigue symptoms etc etc, if that is, they don't die from something that should never ever, have infected them if it was not for the sake of unbridled capitalism and the filth that it engenders.
You just made that figure up as well.

Stop with trying to downplay the loss of life due to SARS-CoV-2 - it is disgraceful!

Now if you'll excuse me, it's back to trying to clean up as much of the mess that the c***s Morrison, Marshall etc have created and who have been cheered on every step of the way by ignorant f**k wits who spout irrelevant as well as conspiracy laden bull sh*t.

Classy.

Especially given you were caught making up rubbish. Is that your MO? Make shit up and then call everyone else ignorant and conspiracy theorists?
 

kranky al

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So many recreational hypochondriacs out there
Coming yp to 1 in every 350 people dead in the us and thats the best youve got.

1000 dead and counting in less than a month in australia and ten or twenty times that number with long covid

And you are talking about hypochondria?

You are a special kind of numbnuts arent you?
 

kranky al

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For the majority of the population, it is very ordinary. There is a clear demographic group that has a signficantly higher risk - that being over 70s. Virtually all resources should be targeted towards protecting that group. For everyone else? Well unless you have other serious medical issues (such as obesity), it's generally not a problem.

So give people the best information to enable them to make an informed decision about whether they should stay home, wear a mask, get vaccinated etc. Let them make an informed choice, instead of scaring the sh*t out of everyone and imposing mandates.

The reality is that everyone in the country has now had the opportunity to get vaccinated, we've had plenty of time to get the health system ready. We could not be in a better position to live with covid - by delaying covid all you're going to do is have people get older and have more people fall into the risk group.



You just made that up.
Partly because the ABS haven't released 2021 causes of death yet, but in 2020, there were 2,287 from the flu and related causes. It's extremely unlikely this dropped to zero.


You just made that figure up as well.



Classy.

Especially given you were caught making up rubbish. Is that your MO? Make sh*t up and then call everyone else ignorant and conspiracy theorists?

The majority of the us population didnt die in ww1 and ww2 either - so we probably shouldnt worry about deaths in war - after all, a lot more died of covid in 2 years than all the wars the us was involved with in the 20th century.

The figure for long covid is between 10-30% varying from country to country. They recently developed a test for it so we will get more accurate figures as things progress.
 

Bestbird

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WA will be open for unrestricted travel by March

Why'd they cancel Feb 5? My thoughts, the WA Public Servants went on holidays over Xmas and New Years and when they got back they realised they hadn't done enough preparatory work, especially seeing how Omicron was tearing through over east.

They knew they needed far more RATs, so the decision was made to legalise them and order in over 25 million which will arrive before end of Feb

They knew they needed rules to ensure the mining production wouldn't be affected, so they're in the process of working those out with the major miners and should be formulated over the next few days.

They know that more boosters will help reduce spread and severe illness, but they also know this time there are time limits. As the CHO advice letter states the protection of those elderly already boosted declines from late March, so you want the peak of the wave to be no later than this. And you also don't want dual Covid and Influenza waves in winter. As the Covid wave is expected to be about 60 days you want it to take off and end before the end of May.

Now that's not assuming the current wave, plus any further seeding cases, doesn't take off exponentially and render the border redundant. As East Coast cases drop then inbound travel proportionally wouldn't add as many cases to the state.

And as the West Australian newspaper continuously points out, as they have done a complete 180 on McGowan this week, you need an open border to bring in those additional healthcare staff and stop the ones here from leaving.

I think McGowan just wants to avoid the scenario of the last 4 weeks in the East, and ensure Miners are happy before he proceeds. Given the arrival dates of the RATs, the waning dates of the boosters and the time length for a wave to pass before winter March is the final deadline, unless the current wave takes off in February rendering that border redundant.
This has been might stance as well but also adding the start of the school year not being ideal either
 

FIGJAM

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Do you seriously think they’re going to say “yeh the healthcare system has issue which have been exacerbated by covid”. FMD. As most people that grew up down there would say “fu**en mainlanders”. It had issues before covid and it’s pretty obvious whether you know anything about Tassie or not you’d know covid is only going to exacerbate it. Imo Your talking sh*t, you the know it, I know it and anyone that has to deal with healthcare system down there knows it. 😂😂😂you really threw in the hill. The fu**en hill at the cricket. The hill 😂😂😂
Errrr, I am Tasmanian and my brother had birth defects with his left leg meaning we were in and out of the hospitals and the repatriation centre for a decade until we moved to the mainland. It's not the third-world system that you paint. Hobart alone could deal with the whopping 28 cases they have there.

As for the hill, that was meant to bring a bit of levity to the situation. Glad you liked it!
 

Mateyman

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For the majority of the population, it is very ordinary. There is a clear demographic group that has a signficantly higher risk - that being over 70s. Virtually all resources should be targeted towards protecting that group. For everyone else? Well unless you have other serious medical issues (such as obesity), it's generally not a problem.

So give people the best information to enable them to make an informed decision about whether they should stay home, wear a mask, get vaccinated etc. Let them make an informed choice, instead of scaring the sh*t out of everyone and imposing mandates.

The reality is that everyone in the country has now had the opportunity to get vaccinated, we've had plenty of time to get the health system ready. We could not be in a better position to live with covid - by delaying covid all you're going to do is have people get older and have more people fall into the risk group.



You just made that up.
Partly because the ABS haven't released 2021 causes of death yet, but in 2020, there were 2,287 from the flu and related causes. It's extremely unlikely this dropped to zero.


You just made that figure up as well.



Classy.

Especially given you were caught making up rubbish. Is that your MO? Make sh*t up and then call everyone else ignorant and conspiracy theorists?
 

craigos

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Anyone from WA watching the soccer in Melbourne on TV tonight? McGowan must be confused with a packed stadium full of people standing side by side and chanting.

Next on the cards are another two international teams playing in Sydney. Amazing.
 

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Carringbush2010

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WA will be open for unrestricted travel by March

Geez I hope you're right.
Now that's not assuming the current wave, plus any further seeding cases, doesn't take off exponentially and render the border redundant. As East Coast cases drop then inbound travel proportionally wouldn't add as many cases to the state.

Geez I hope you're wrong.
 

FIGJAM

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And a poster earlier on pointed out that 1000 people over east have died of covid since the beginning of the year.

But yeah - you personally are doing fine - go you

There are about 22,500,000 people over east. There were an average of 357.8 deaths per day in Australia in from Jan 2020 to Oct 2021 (Source: ABS). This was interestingly a decrease from the 2019 average daily death rate and within a pandemic no less!

So lets say on the 27th of Jan, we might have usually had around 9660 deaths on the eastern seaboard based on the recent average. 1000/9660, let's round it to 10%. So 10% of people of a usual monthly death number died with a positive Covid test. We don't of course know how many of the 1000 is over the usual average death rate for this period.

Of that 10% of the average dying with Covid, there were probably a cohort of the elderly who could have died of a small infection resulting from very little and would have died anyway as a part of that "usual 9660".

Then of that 10%, there were a cohort of people in ICU from strokes. Heart attacks. Trauma. People who were going to die anyway, but a positive test is counted as a "with Covid" result, even if it's not from Covid.

Based on the Victorian numbers released yesterday, 53% of deaths have been from the fully unvaccinated. That will include some of the above of course. Either way, that's 530 deaths who could have had that number dramatically reduced if they had got vaccinated. Ya can't chase Covid Zero for this group of (mostly!) idiots.

Once you take all of the above into consideration, I'd be wagering the number of unvaccinated people dying of Covid is in the low to very low single digits percentage-wise relative to the usual average death rate outside of the Omnicron outbreak. There's a reason that the CHO's in the eastern states and territories are relaxed.....relatively speaking of course!
 
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kranky al

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There are about 22,500,000 people over east. There were an average of 357.8 deaths per day in Australia in from Jan 2020 to Oct 2021 (Source: ABS). This was interestingly a decrease from the 2019 average daily death rate and within a pandemic no less!

So lets say on the 27th of Jan, we might have usually had around 9660 deaths on the eastern seaboard based on the recent average. 1000/9660, let's round it to 10%. So 10% of people of a usual monthly death number died with a positive Covid test. We don't of course know how many of the 1000 is over the usual average death rate for this period.

Of that 10% of the average dying with Covid, there were probably a cohort of the elderly who could have died of a small infection resulting from very little and would have died anyway as a part of that "usual 9660".

Then of that 10%, there were a cohort of people in ICU from strokes. Heart attacks. Trauma. People who were going to die anyway, but a positive test is counted as a "with Covid" result, even if it's not from Covid.

Based on the Victorian numbers released yesterday, 53% of deaths have been from the fully unvaccinated. That will include some of the above of course. Either way, that's 530 deaths who could have had that number dramatically reduced if they had got vaccinated. Ya can't chase Covid Zero for this group of (mostly!) idiots.

Once you take all of the above into consideration, I'd be wagering the number of unvaccinated people dying of Covid is in the low to very low single digits percentage-wise relative to the usual average death rate outside of the Omnicron outbreak. There's a reason that the CHO's in the eastern states and territories are relaxed.....relatively speaking of course!
Pretty happy if that turns out to be the case. Im finding increasingly hard to feel sorry for people walking deliberately into the fire

Once ive seen that more than happy to open up - but ill be pretty glad that we did it our way and not just as a giant science experiment because scomo is a useless lump of scomo.


<<<Then of that 10%, there were a cohort of people in ICU from strokes. Heart attacks. Trauma. People who were going to die anyway, but a positive test is counted as a "with Covid" result, even if it's not from Covid.>>>>

Sooouuuurrrrcccceeeee?
 
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adogsfan5

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Why the funk should hospitals let potentially positive people that will shed 6 times the viral load of a vaccinated person put their patients at risk?

Liability nightmare - stop listening to woo and fetcha funking shots

Imagine being that much of a robot.
 

Taylor

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Why the funk should hospitals let potentially positive people that will shed 6 times the viral load of a vaccinated person put their patients at risk?

Liability nightmare - stop listening to woo and fetcha funking shots

Six times?

Everything I've read so far at the lancet has shown comparable peak viral loads and not enough disparity when the vaccinated loads diminish faster to amount to a 600% difference.
 

adogsfan5

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Six times?

Everything I've read so far at the lancet has shown comparable peak viral loads and not enough disparity when the vaccinated loads diminish faster to amount to a 600% difference.


 

FIGJAM

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<<<Then of that 10%, there were a cohort of people in ICU from strokes. Heart attacks. Trauma. People who were going to die anyway, but a positive test is counted as a "with Covid" result, even if it's not from Covid.>>>>

Sooouuuurrrrcccceeeee?
Common sense and every CHO / Health Minister has said as much at pressers.

Every state and territory conservatively includes all deaths with COVID as COVID deaths. Might have been an early National Cabinet decision.

Some other countries chose to exclude COVID positive patients if they clearly would have died anyway. I think I prefer our counting method, as it’s cleaner, but doesn’t help when you’ve got one jurisdiction panicking about the raw numbers.
 

kranky al

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Common sense and every CHO / Health Minister has said as much at pressers.

Every state and territory conservatively includes all deaths with COVID as COVID deaths. Might have been an early National Cabinet decision.

Some other countries chose to exclude COVID positive patients if they clearly would have died anyway. I think I prefer our counting method, as it’s cleaner, but doesn’t help when you’ve got one jurisdiction panicking about the raw numbers.
S
O
U
R
C
E
 

kranky al

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Six times?

Everything I've read so far at the lancet has shown comparable peak viral loads and not enough disparity when the vaccinated loads diminish faster to amount to a 600% difference.


Just went and read some lancet articles agreeing with you however.


Then read an article explaining the difference :

<<<
These studies only show a similar peak viral load, which is the highest amount of virus in the system over the course of the study.

But vaccinated people clear the virus faster(external link), with lower levels of virus overall(external link), and have less time with very high levels of virus present.>>>

Source: https://www.vu.edu.au/about-vu/news...ious-as-unvaccinated-people-if-they-get-covid
 

Schneebly11

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This has been might stance as well but also adding the start of the school year not being ideal either

There's now no opportunity for a wave to occur in WA not concurrently with a school term. The summer holidays are over, the Easter holidays are only for two weeks, and we know a wave lasts 6-8 weeks. There's enough cases floating around undetected in the city to ensure it isn't going to be eradicated, only suppressed, and their biggest ally in this, summer, will be over within time. Come May, June, even if they have kept this wave from going exponential til then and prevented a single further case entering the state, the normal winter respiratory illness season will cause those hidden cases in the community to explode and push a massive wave through the whole of winter.

Ideally they would've allowed the wave to push through the summer holidays. Now they are only going to get a reprieve from school super spreader events during the Autumn holidays in April for two weeks. That's assuming the current wave doesn't go exponential next week and push the wave though Feb/March/early April.