List Mgmt. The R Word

[Dylan82]

Nice to see you've got something constructive to add.


We lost against GC because JK was out and he was replaced by a key-defender which destroyed the entire balance of our set-up.

It was a stuff-up of M.Brown proportions.


I fail to see where a rebuild is necessary. Changes in structure and positional impact are what is required and it is readily available in the current squad.

 

[langdon19]

Blows my mind how we fcuked up our womens team application. We should have got a team before freo. No guarantee we'll get a team in 2019 either.

We have a women's team

 

[JohnW]

Just because it isnt as bad as some say dont make it as good as what you say. Yes there are some bright spots but personally I feel we are no where near winning a flag and I think most would feel the same. That should be the only benchmark of success.

Plus nisbet is a sack who can GTFO

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Godfather32]

Nice to see you've got something constructive to add.


We lost against GC because JK was out and he was replaced by a key-defender which destroyed the entire balance of our set-up.

It was a stuff-up of M.Brown proportions.


I fail to see where a rebuild is necessary. Changes in structure and positional impact are what is required and it is readily available in the current squad.

We've been mediocre for most of the last two seasons, the majority of the problem stems from our awful midfield. Having two past their prime Brownlow medalists on our list is completely irrelevant, how they are currently performing and are likely to perform moving forward is.
Since 2011 we've debuted the least number of players in the AFL and of the players drafted since 2011 ours have played the least number of games. We have some very real and significant problems coming up in the next couple of years.

 

[Dylan82]

We made the Grand Final in 2015, only lost 6 matches for the entire season - that is not mediocre.

We were percentage from top 4 last year, only lost 7 matches considering NicNat was missing for much of it - until the match against the Bulldogs in the Elimination Final it was not a mediocre season.

 

[Godfather32]

We made the Grand Final in 2015, only lost 6 matches for the entire season - that is not mediocre.

We were percentage from top 4 last year, only lost 7 matches considering NicNat was missing for much of it - until the match against the Bulldogs in the Elimination Final it was not a mediocre season.

Since when is 2015 part 2016 or 2017 which would be the last two seasons?
We were bog average all of last year until the end of the season where we played 3 good games before being embarrassed at home in a final.

 

[dajesmac]

Since when is 2015 part 2016 or 2017 which would be the last two seasons?
We were bog average all of last year until the end of the season where we played 3 good games before being embarrassed at home in a final.

We won 16 games last year which was the same as the year we made the GF. You may need to redefine your use of the word 'mediocre'.

That being said I agree that we were, and are, off the pace. D82 is right in that we have too much quality that would be wasted with a rebuild, but I think we could do with a 'reset'.

We're not quite good enough to challenge right now and I think persisting with this particular 'tilt' could end up doing more damage than good in the medium term. We should definitely be moving on older players that aren't in the picture for a shot at the flag in 2019-20 (specifically LeCras, Butler, Priddis and to a lesser extent Mitchell). We should be looking at bringing in players 18-23, either via the draft or through trades.

As I've said I think we've drafted well in recent drafts and if we can develop them correctly guys like Venables, Cole, Rotham and Rioli in particular could be playing substantial roles in a good side in 2 years.

 

[Godfather32]

We won 16 games last year which was the same as the year we made the GF. You may need to redefine your use of the word 'mediocre'.

That being said I agree that we were, and are, off the pace. D82 is right in that we have too much quality that would be wasted with a rebuild, but I think we could do with a 'reset'.

We're not quite good enough to challenge right now and I think persisting with this particular 'tilt' could end up doing more damage than good in the medium term. We should definitely be moving on older players that aren't in the picture for a shot at the flag in 2019-20 (specifically LeCras, Butler, Priddis and to a lesser extent Mitchell). We should be looking at bringing in players 18-23, either via the draft or through trades.

As I've said I think we've drafted well in recent drafts and if we can develop them correctly guys like Venables, Cole, Rotham and Rioli in particular could be playing substantial roles in a good side in 2 years.

Just because we won 16 games doesn't mean we weren't mediocre, the way we played for the majority of last season was rubbish.
But I agree we don't necessarily need a full rebuild and have said so a few times already, just a mini-rebuild in the midfield and with our small forwards and we could potentially have another tilt at a flat in the next couple of years before our late 20's players start to wind down.

 

[Dylan82]

The drop in performance in 2016 compared to 2015 is mostly due to structuring with three key defenders for the majority of the season rather than two, which limited the effectiveness of the mobile zone otherwise known as the web.

This year we've effectively had no rucks, of course the midfield output is going to do be down. Since 2015, when NicNat doesn't play, we average -6 contested possessions versus opposition; when he does play that figure becomes +6.

This season has always been about trying to stay competitive as possible to maintain a position and hope that NicNat is able to return fit for the finals.

 

[dajesmac]

Just because we won 16 games doesn't mean we weren't mediocre, the way we played for the majority of last season was rubbish.
But I agree we don't necessarily need a full rebuild and have said so a few times already, just a mini-rebuild in the midfield and with our small forwards and we could potentially have another tilt at a flat in the next couple of years before our late 20's players start to wind down.

It was definitely uninspiring. But 'mediocre' suggests we were middle of the pack at best.

Kind of just semantics though.

 

[Godfather32]

The drop in performance in 2016 compared to 2015 is mostly due to structuring with three key defenders for the majority of the season rather than two, which limited the effectiveness of the mobile zone otherwise known as the web.

This year we've effectively had no rucks, of course the midfield output is going to do be down. Since 2015, when NicNat doesn't play, we average -6 contested possessions versus opposition; when he does play that figure becomes +6.

This season has always been about trying to stay competitive as possible to maintain a position and hope that NicNat is able to return fit for the finals.

We have the slowest (and imo the worst) midfield in the league, Nic Nat shouldn't have to paper over the cracks for his whole career, at some point we need to have a midfield that can stand on it's own. There's plenty of teams out there without a dominant ruckman who have good midfields.

 

[Godfather32]

It was definitely uninspiring. But 'mediocre' suggests we were middle of the pack at best.

Kind of just semantics though.

Yeh I just don't think we were very good even in the matches we won, apart from those last 3 games of the home & away season. We finished 6th (despite racking up the % against some awful teams) and bombed out in the first week of the finals, that's middle of the pack to my mind.

 

[Dylan82]

We have the slowest (and imo the worst) midfield in the league, Nic Nat shouldn't have to paper over the cracks for his whole career, at some point we need to have a midfield that can stand on it's own. There's plenty of teams out there without a dominant ruckman who have good midfields.

Physical pace is one thing, ball movement is another. We can look exceptionally quick as a team when the game plan works.

One can say there are also plenty of teams with good midfields that lack the quality of key position players that we have.


Besides, who do you suggest we should put in the midfield that befits a rebuild then? Trading obviously won't benefit this year - and there is very little chance we will be able gain anyone elite in that position without paying massive overs on the trade table as the big fish in the free agency pool are above what we can spend.

 

[Here2tellyouwhy]

On Mark Lecras. I live in Jurien Bay so I know of the Lecras family and bump into them a bit and my boys play footy against them when we play Cervantes. Word around town is Lecca is pretty close to done. He hasnt been happy playing footy for a couple years now. His brother Brent has retired from local footy and he and Mark are about to take over the family business. Doubtful he'll play on next year

 

[Godfather32]

Physical pace is one thing, ball movement is another. We can look exceptionally quick as a team when the game plan works.

One can say there are also plenty of teams with good midfields that lack the quality of key position players that we have.


Besides, who do you suggest we should put in the midfield that befits a rebuild then? Trading obviously won't benefit this year - and there is very little chance we will be able gain anyone elite in that position without paying massive overs on the trade table as the big fish in the free agency pool are above what we can spend.

Except a couple of our slowest midfielders are also probably our among worst kicks, so not only are they slow across the ground they also dispose of the ball poorly which slows us down. (See the Gaff/Priddis debacle from last week).
There are teams who don't have the quality of key position players that we have, which is why I don't want to piss away the opportunity to win a premiership with these guys. Today's game is won and lost in the midfield and like it or not our midfield is not up to the standard it needs to be to compete for a flag.
There are topline midfielders out there who are a chance to move at the end of this season, you'd hope that we'd at least be trying to shake one free.
If it was me trying to improve our midfield over the next couple of years I'd be doing everything I could to bring guys like Cripps and Acres here in the upcoming trade period. For the rest of the season I'd be giving games to our younger midfielders like Partington and hopefully Venables, move Sheed permanently into the number 1 inside mid role, move Nelson into the midfield. I don't mind Mitchell playing but I would have told Priddis to retire.

 

[Here2tellyouwhy]

Look like Richmond the club could do with a rebuild of the board but asking for club legends like Butler, Petrie and Mitchell to retire is just in poor taste, especially with Butler.

 

[Godfather32]

Look like Richmond the club could do with a rebuild of the board but asking for club legends like Butler, Petrie and Mitchell to retire is just in poor taste, especially with Butler.

Fairly obvious that Cole is a far superior player to Butler who should either retire or be dropped all the way down to the East Perth reserves

 

[Here2tellyouwhy]

Fairly obvious that Cole is a far superior player to Butler who should either retire or be dropped all the way down to the East Perth reserves

Butler flags - 1
Cole flags - 0

Butler dance moves - national air time
Cole dance moves - still lives with mummy

Butler - starts with B
Cole - starts with C
B comes before C

 

[Godfather32]

Butler flags - 1
Cole flags - 0

Butler dance moves - national air time
Cole dance moves - still lives with mummy

Butler - starts with B
Cole - starts with C
B comes before C

Ahh but if you were to assign a numerical value to each letter in both players last names based on their position in the alphabet and then add all of those numbers together you'll find that Butler has a much higher score than Cole. Now when you're playing golf (which shares 2 of the same letters as Cole whilst only having 1 in common with Butler) the lowest score wins. So therefore Cole is better than Butler.

 

[Here2tellyouwhy]

Ahh but if you were to assign a numerical value to each letter in both players last names based on their position in the alphabet and then add all of those numbers together you'll find that Butler has a much higher score than Cole. Now when you're playing golf (which shares 2 of the same letters as Cole whilst only having 1 in common with Butler) the lowest score wins. So therefore Cole is better than Butler.

Well you got me.
Cole is better at not getting a game than Butler and with all that spare time on his hands still can't dance for shit

This is a picture of Butler Dancing better than Cole and being selected better than Cole.

 

[Eagleboy68]

Nice to see you've got something constructive to add.


We lost against GC because JK was out and he was replaced by a key-defender which destroyed the entire balance of our set-up.

It was a stuff-up of M.Brown proportions.


I fail to see where a rebuild is necessary. Changes in structure and positional impact are what is required and it is readily available in the current squad.

No we lost to gold coast because we have a poor midfield headlined by priddis himself who with 2 minutes to go was in a prime position to either hit two targets with his preferred kicking side or stream forward evading one tackler and kick the goal himself ergo winning us the game.

The former he ****ed up kicking it to the ground 15 meters away and the latter he couldnt do since he was 15.

Jk was out and regardless we should have been good enough to beat them by 5+ goals IF we didn't have a mediocre side and poor midfield.

 

[Eagleboy68]

We made the Grand Final in 2015, only lost 6 matches for the entire season - that is not mediocre.

We were percentage from top 4 last year, only lost 7 matches considering NicNat was missing for much of it - until the match against the Bulldogs in the Elimination Final it was not a mediocre season.

We made the grand final in 2015 off the back of a favourable draw beating 1 top 5 team away from home.
And by very definition of mediocre got flogged in the grand final by a non mediocre side who we beat at home 3 weeks earlier without priddis.

Your memory fades. Natanui played 16 games last year "missing for much of it"is wrong.
Perhaps you are forgetting he kicked the winning goal against gws late in the year?

Natanui is one of the main reasons our midfield looks anything like a decent one when he plays giving us the x factor and a certain amount of control at the contests and also becoming a contested bull in those contests.

Kudos to you for agreeing we were mediocre against the bulldogs in the ef. You see the finals are where sides are truly found out as to their greatness or mediocrity.
Including 2015 we have played in 4 finals winning two and getting flogged in two for a winning ratio of 50percent.
The very definition of mediocre.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Including 2015 we have played in 4 finals winning two and getting flogged in two for a winning ratio of 50percent.
The very definition of mediocre.

Teams that have played at least four finals and won at least two in that time period:
Bulldogs (4-1)
Hawthorn (3-3)
Eagles (2-2)
Adelaide (2-2)
North (2-2)
Sydney (2-4)

If that makes us "the very definition of mediocre" then that definition has been expanded to include every side who hasn't won a flag in the last two years.

 

[Eagleboy68]

Teams that have played at least four finals and won at least two in that time period:
Bulldogs (4-1)
Hawthorn (3-3)
Eagles (2-2)
Adelaide (2-2)
North (2-2)
Sydney (2-4)

If that makes us "the very definition of mediocre" then that definition has been expanded to include every side who hasn't won a flag in the last two years.

Yeah,
Us Adelaide north and Sydney have been mediocre and the finals have exposed that mediocrity.

You think otherwise?
You think a 50 percent or less winning margin isn't mediocre?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Yeah,
Us Adelaide north and Sydney have been mediocre and the finals have exposed that mediocrity.

You think otherwise?
You think a 50 percent or less winning margin isn't mediocre?

Do I think 16/18 teams have been mediocre the past two years? No.