The Race to 17

[SleepingGiant]

Oh and I think we are a smokey for 17. Hawks are shooting up the ladder but I feel they have risen too early and don't have the core talent. Most likely Collingwood, but we are rebuilding methodically and properly.

Carlton and Essendon no chance they are culturally both disgraces.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

VFL had 12 teams in it for most of it, I think it counts.

Evolution of the league.

8 teams = 1897-1907 (breakaway league formed with 8 foundation clubs - CARL, COLL, ESS, FITZ, GEEL, MELB, STK, SM)

• Fitzroy = 4
• Essendon = 2
• Collingwood = 2
• Carlton = 2
• Melbourne = 1

10 teams = 1908-1914 (inclusion of Richmond and University)

• Essendon = 2
• Carlton = 2
• South Melbourne = 1
• Collingwood = 1
• Fitzroy = 1

9 teams = 1915 (withdrawal of University)

• Carlton = 1

4 teams = 1916 (withdrawal of Essendon, Geelong, Melbourne, St Kilda and South Melbourne)

• Fitzroy = 1

6 teams = 1917 (return of Geelong and South Melbourne)

• Collingwood = 1

8 teams = 1918 (return of Essendon and St Kilda)

• South Melbourne = 1

9 teams = 1919-1924 (return of Melbourne after WWI ends)

• Richmond = 2
• Essendon = 2
• Collingwood = 1
• Fitzroy = 1

12 teams = 1925-1941 (inclusion of Footscray, Hawthorn and North Melbourne)

• Collingwood = 6
• Melbourne = 4
• Geelong = 3
• Richmond = 2
• South Melbourne = 1
• Carlton = 1

11 teams = 1942-1943 (withdrawal of Geelong)

• Essendon = 1
• Richmond = 1

12 teams = 1944-1986 (return of Geelong, restoring it back to 12 teams)

• Carlton = 8
• Melbourne = 7
• Essendon = 7
• Hawthorn = 6
• Richmond = 5
• Geelong = 3
• Collingwood = 2
• North Melbourne = 2
• Fitzroy = 1
• Footscray = 1
• St Kilda = 1

14 teams = 1987-1990 (inclusion of West Coast and Brisbane)

• Hawthorn = 2
• Carlton = 1
• Collingwood = 1

15 teams = 1991-1994 (inclusion of Adelaide)

• West Coast = 2
• Hawthorn = 1
• Essendon = 1

16 teams = 1995-2010 (inclusion of Fremantle, withdrawal of Fitzroy, inclusion of Port Adelaide)

• Brisbane Lions = 3
• Adelaide = 2
• North Melbourne = 2
• Geelong = 2
• Carlton = 1
• Essendon = 1
• Port Adelaide = 1
• Sydney = 1
• West Coast = 1
• Hawthorn = 1
• Collingwood = 1

17 teams = 2011 (inclusion of Gold Coast)

• Geelong = 1

18 teams = 2012-Present (inclusion of GWS)

• Hawthorn = 3
• Richmond = 3
• Brisbane Lions = 2
• Sydney = 1
• Western Bulldogs = 1
• West Coast = 1
• Melbourne = 1
• Geelong = 1
• Collingwood = 1

 

[mighty_lions]

That's because it was a VFL premiership to begin with. Won by Melbourne. Their first flag out of a current total of 13.

This is the reality, it isn't now - nor ever has been - a national competition. It's an expanded Victorian competition. Founded in 1897 when eight clubs broke away from the VFA. That's when the clock started running. Restarting it at any other point is completely arbitrary, and frequently coincides with a particular club's premiership drought ending and/or excluding a big chunk of no success at all. So there are always going to be quirks - when South got moved interstate, when Brisbane (Bears) and West Coast came in, when Adelaide came in, et cetera. 1990 was a name change and literally nothing else, same teams, same coaches, same players.

So to me 16 is still the most premierships any club has won. I'd love to say we (Geelong) have won more, but 10 it is. It wasn't that long ago we were stuck on 6, so I'm pretty happy to see it increase. All clubs have had droughts - to anyone who had to put up with Carlton and Essendon fans in the mid-90s/early-2000s, if you'd suggested both were about to start longest premiership droughts in their history they wouldn't have believed you. But that's how it goes. It's not like either club (or any club) means for it to happen.

Its not an expanded Victorian competition it originally was but it is not today, this is that victorian centric logic that needs to change, its not the VFL anymore with a few additional teams

 

[mighty_lions]

This thread is about a race to 17 and it's filled with interstate flogs with a chip on their shoulder shouting because they know it's a tally they can't win. The "VFL" in the 70's/80's was so far and above any other league at the time it's laughable. Enthralling physical contests, and a very watchable game. The MCG didn't sell out with over 100K people for no reason, for some suburban league . The fact this the AFL is mostly a victorian sport, others have been invited in, and now it's national. If you don't like your lack of legacy, go back to SANFL or WAFL and have fun.

The flags count, your opinions won't change it, and write your own legacy. Brisbane are on track to doing it.

the vfl was terrible in the 70's and 80's go back and watch the games, really irrelevant to the conversation anyway

 

[Hoops]

That's why my Premiership ladder is the best, it takes out a lot of the biases. The only argument is around Fitzroy and Brisbane being the same team from the "merger"

Rank​	Club​	Premierships​	Par Premierships​	Score​	Change​
1​	Brisbane​	5​	2.39​	2.09​	+1​
2​	Hawthorn​	13​	7.57​	1.72​	-1​
3​	West Coast​	4​	2.39​	1.67​	-1​
4​	Essendon​	16​	10.55​	1.52​
5​	Carlton​	16​	10.97​	1.46​
5​	Collingwood​	16​	10.97​	1.46​
7​	Richmond​	13​	9.59​	1.36​
8​	Melbourne​	13​	10.42​	1.25​
9​	Adelaide​	2​	2.10​	0.95​
10​	Geelong​	10​	10.53​	0.95​
11​	Fitzroy​	8​	9.25​	0.86​
12​	Port Adelaide​	1​	1.71​	0.58​
13​	North Melbourne​	4​	7.57​	0.53​
14​	Sydney​	5​	10.72​	0.47​
15​	Western Bulldogs​	2​	7.57​	0.26​
16​	St Kilda​	1​	10.55​	0.09​
17​	Fremantle​	0​	1.84​	0.00​
17​	University​	0​	0.70​	0.00​
17​	Gold Coast​	0​	0.84​	0.00​
17​	Greater Western Sydney​	0​	0.78​	0.00​

 

[Pistol Night]

the vfl was terrible in the 70's and 80's go back and watch the games, really irrelevant to the conversation anyway

Agree. All 70s and 80s results should be void

 

[mighty_lions]

Agree. All 70s and 80s results should be void

not void just call it VFL premierships which it was!

 

[Red Bull]

VFL/AFL
Amateur/Professional
Black&white tv/colour tv
Etc etc etc
It doesn’t matter !!
Each year the Premier competition in Australia crowns its champion team.
Therefore, that team is the champion team in Australia for that particular year.
1966 the Saints were crowned the champion team in Australia.
1977 North were champions of Australia.
2025 Brisbane are the champion team in Australia by virtue of the fact that they triumphed in the premier competition in the land.
Name a year … any year … and it’s easy to find the champion team in Australia for that year.
Any intelligent person would understand that cherry picking as above to suit a certain narrative is really just the domain of the brain dead and lazy …

 

[Pistol Night]

not void just call it VFL premierships which it was!

It wa called VFL shitting the bed in every GF for us

 

[Partridge]

VFL/AFL
Amateur/Professional
Black&white tv/colour tv
Etc etc etc
It doesn’t matter !!
Each year the Premier competition in Australia crowns its champion team.
Therefore, that team is the champion team in Australia for that particular year.
1966 the Saints were crowned the champion team in Australia.
1977 North were champions of Australia.
2025 Brisbane are the champion team in Australia by virtue of the fact that they triumphed in the premier competition in the land.
Name a year … any year … and it’s easy to find the champion team in Australia for that year.
Any intelligent person would understand that cherry picking as above to suit a certain narrative is really just the domain of the brain dead and lazy …

Yep. And (at times) extremely insecure.

History is what it is. There were bizarre seasons with bizarre results. Terrible finals systems in 1897 and 1924 for starters. Big flaws in the finals system up until 1998. But those premierships are still valid. Just like Fitzroy's glorious double in 1916 - Premiers and Wooden spooners in the same year. Getting upset because some club (or clubs) you don't like have more flags doesn't mean you get to arbitrarily reset the total.

 

[Bagger72]

not void just call it VFL premierships which it was!

Yeah - but still strongest clubs in Australia. We just allowed everyone else get a chance at the sponsorship market. What I find disappointing are the welfare queens are being prioritised over historic clubs like Norwood and Claremont that would easily match membership revenue from GWS, Suns and maybe even Brisbane Bears. I am against handing out money to minnow struggling clubs that makes their success look like manufactured plastic and instead give big prize money scaled on ladder positions. I am against these blood suckers sucking so much cash from the AFL where Vic govt recently paid $500m to improve the competition that Vic tax payers have to pay for. I am for a promotion and relegation system so minnow welfare queens need to build their brand in lower divisions prior to competing with the big boys. I am also for clubs having the ability to pay a player $5m per year if it feels the player is worth it.

 

[mighty_lions]

Yeah - but still strongest clubs in Australia. We just allowed everyone else get a chance at the sponsorship market. What I find disappointing are the welfare queens are being prioritised over historic clubs like Norwood and Claremont that would easily match membership revenue from GWS, Suns and maybe even Brisbane Bears. I am against handing out money to minnow struggling clubs that makes their success look like manufactured plastic and instead give big prize money scaled on ladder positions. I am against these blood suckers sucking so much cash from the AFL where Vic govt recently paid $500m to improve the competition that Vic tax payers have to pay for. I am for a promotion and relegation system so minnow welfare queens need to build their brand in lower divisions prior to competing with the big boys. I am also for clubs having the ability to pay a player $5m per year if it feels the player is worth it.

I didnt read any of that, back 2 back baby

 

[Pistol Night]

I didnt read any of that, back 2 back baby

That reply absolutely outdoes any melt or counter argument.

 

[bungalow_bill]

in brown paper bags??? no worries John

Yeah brown paper bags - and rich clubs with no salary cap. VFL flags under this system are null and void.

 

[Red Bull]

Yeah brown paper bags - and rich clubs with no salary cap. VFL flags under this system are null and void.

How ya doin bill …

 

[bungalow_bill]

I think your missing my point, I dont really care if its 1982, 86 or 90 but the competition evolved into something totally different that is not the same as to the competition it was, calling it the AFL is stating that fact as opposed to the VFL

Its all pointless anyway because the AFL wont ever change it because everyone wants to have the biggest dick and it would piss off too many supporters, but if my Carlton friend above truely thinks they've won 16 afl hard earned premierships I lol at that

15 state flags prior to the salary cap and most when there were only a small number of Vic teams as competition (and less than a handful that could compete financially) So not in same universe as a national flag. It's like comparing tennis titles won during the amateur era to those won in the professional era

 

[bungalow_bill]

not void just call it VFL premierships which it was!

State flags