Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[SaintsSeptember]

And none of those are congruent with the 'seppo issues'?

Where exactly does the pharmaceutical cartel and science-worship originate?

Science worship is a funny sort of term, but i see more and more people who claim to be on the side of science yet not understand much of it.
Global warming is real and supported by science, but then if you suggest that we'll run short of power occasional if we relied on existing renewable technology, you get howled down, because science will give us better batteries, science will give us better storage technology etc.
In the 50's people looked at cars that had been invented a short time ago, and the advancements made. They then assumed that science would have them flying by now.

But then on the other hand you get people who like to ignore existing , proven science over something unsubstantiated. Flat earthers an extreme example.

Lets not go into pharaceutical.

 

[Noidenous]

Science worship is a funny sort of term, but i see more and more people who claim to be on the side of science yet not understand much of it.
Global warming is real and supported by science, but then if you suggest that we'll run short of power occasional if we relied on existing renewable technology, you get howled down, because science will give us better batteries, science will give us better storage technology etc.
In the 50's people looked at cars that had been invented a short time ago, and the advancements made. They then assumed that science would have them flying by now.

But then on the other hand you get people who like to ignore existing , proven science over something unsubstantiated. Flat earthers an extreme example.

Lets not go into pharaceutical.

Pharmaceutical 'science' isn't the same sort of cult?

Pfizer fined $2.3 billion for illegal marketing in off-label drug case

abcnews.go.com

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Politics and Philosophy are two different things.

Its been said that there is a direct relationship between Social Philosophy and Politics.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Pharmaceutical 'science' isn't the same sort of cult?

Pfizer fined $2.3 billion for illegal marketing in off-label drug case

abcnews.go.com

Thank God for that.

Shit i mentioned the G word.

 

[Noidenous]

Its been said that there is a direct relationship between Social Philosophy and Politics.

Does that mean you shouldn't be able to post any personal beliefs or groundings?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Does that mean you shouldn't be able to post any personal beliefs or groundings?

I really don't know. I've misjudged it in the past.

 

[Noidenous]

I really don't know. I've misjudged it in the past.

Same here.

I'm of the opinion that if it's macro enough, there's no specific political stance that can be gleaned by those who would care to attribute it as such.

 

[gringo2011]

Well apart from the economy, the housing, the employment, the cost of living , the internet , climate change , and integrity, WHAT DID THE GOVERNMENT EVER fu** UP FOR US?

They were good before they became a slipstream for corporate interests and the very few super rich. It's been eroding since the 1980s. You just hope that something will change but like that video said, I think I believe in the end of the world more than a change to the system now.

 

[gringo2011]

Science worship is a funny sort of term, but i see more and more people who claim to be on the side of science yet not understand much of it.
Global warming is real and supported by science, but then if you suggest that we'll run short of power occasional if we relied on existing renewable technology, you get howled down, because science will give us better batteries, science will give us better storage technology etc.
In the 50's people looked at cars that had been invented a short time ago, and the advancements made. They then assumed that science would have them flying by now.

But then on the other hand you get people who like to ignore existing , proven science over something unsubstantiated. Flat earthers an extreme example.

Lets not go into pharaceutical.

I think that's the heretic factor, if you say something that can be misconstrued as denying global warming or being anti science you get people's hackles up. It's not particularly constructive to deny other points of view but the whole way humans debate now is infantile. To me it comes down to doing something to move towards reducing carbon rather than waiting until there is a perfect technology. Capitalism is always going to get in the way of everything changing but we don't have another system so we have to just hope that someone can commercialise a working power supply that is based on renewables. People probably thought that petrol cars would never take over from horses early on because of range and lack of petrol stations etc.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think that's the heretic factor, if you say something that can be misconstrued as denying global warming or being anti science you get people's hackles up. It's not particularly constructive to deny other points of view but the whole way humans debate now is infantile. To me it comes down to doing something to move towards reducing carbon rather than waiting until there is a perfect technology. Capitalism is always going to get in the way of everything changing but we don't have another system so we have to just hope that someone can commercialise a working power supply that is based on renewables. People probably thought that petrol cars would never take over from horses early on because of range and lack of petrol stations etc.

There is a move in Europe now , to class gas power stations meeting a certain criteria, along with Nuclear as "Green". Its been very divisive and i think its born out of recognition that with current technology its very difficult to get a 100% 24 hour supply with Wind and Solar.
Those pushing for it are wanting to get the best result possible to reduce CO2 in the atmosphere.
Those against it seem to think that Gas and Nuclear are evil and against the god of Gaia or something and that people should be using technology that isn't yet available or feasible. If you argue, you are a science denier.

 

[gringo2011]

There is a move in Europe now , to class gas power stations meeting a certain criteria, along with Nuclear as "Green". Its been very divisive and i think its born out of recognition that with current technology its very difficult to get a 100% 24 hour supply with Wind and Solar.
Those pushing for it are wanting to get the best result possible to reduce CO2 in the atmosphere.
Those against it seem to think that Gas and Nuclear are evil and against the god of Gaia or something and that people should be using technology that isn't yet available or feasible. If you argue, you are a science denier.

Cost and danger will always keep nuclear away from any real discussions. Just commercially it's hard to justify really.

 

[Hubnester]

Has anyone watched Smiling Friends yet?



Best original animation I've seen in ages.
Very random but very funny. Heaps of good cameos too.

If you were a part of the internet animation culture in the prime of Newgrounds you should enjoy this.

 

[Noidenous]

Cost and danger will always keep nuclear away from any real discussions. Just commercially it's hard to justify really.

You'll find it's the stain the hippie movement attached to it along with fear of Chernobyl, which was an isolated case of neglect only the USSR could have engineered.

 

[jwikked]

Has anyone watched Smiling Friends yet?



Best original animation I've seen in ages.
Very random but very funny. Heaps of good cameos too.

If you were a part of the internet animation culture in the prime of Newgrounds you should enjoy this.

I liked his other cartoons, the Ciggy Butt Brain one in particular, I bought some stickers of that for my esky. He also did the excellent Rick and Morty short cartoon.

Haven’t watched Smiling Friends yet, but if it’s anything like his other work, it’ll be unique at least.

Michael Cusack is his name if people want to check him out on YouTube. The YOLO videos are funny

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Cost and danger will always keep nuclear away from any real discussions. Just commercially it's hard to justify really.

The French have never looked back.
Part of the cost factor is the cost of building "Anything " in places like Australia now.

Nuclear Power in Indonesia - World Nuclear Association

Indonesia's population of about 280 million is served by power generation capacity of only about 90 GWe. A 10 MWe experimental nuclear power reactor is planned to be built at Serpong, near Jakarta. Conceptual design has been completed by Russia.

world-nuclear.org

Some of the costs of Nuclear have been overstated as well.

Solar is cheap.......if you measure the cost of supplying electricity on a sunny day.
If we talk 24 hour supply, it means creating huge over-capacity ( to allow for cloudy days etc ) and storage facilities.
Right now the cost of batteries for storage is 100s of times more expensive than the cost of sunny day solar.

Its not about electricity costs for generation, its all about return on investment.

So far no-one is coming close to getting 100% renewable unless they have small population and large hydro facilities.

 

[jwikked]

Nuclear would be idea in Australia. Few natural disasters, away from fault lines.
Would be great hand in hand with renewables.

It won’t happen. Unfortunately Nuclear is a dirty word, which is a shame.

 

[bergholt]

Cost and danger will always keep nuclear away from any real discussions. Just commercially it's hard to justify really.

Main problem with nuclear has always been the upfront capital and time investment. It means you need to earn your returns over such a huge timeframe that any non-zero market risk modelled over that period basically makes the project unprofitable for private enterprise.

Governments can make it happen, like in France, but the long time horizon means that there's no benefit for any individual politician in pushing through opposition to do it.

The other problem with big power plants (nuclear/coal/gas/whatever) is the negatives of centralisation. Look at Japan after Fukushima - their power infra was ****ed for years because they lost a big chunk of supply in a heartbeat. Whereas decentralised sources like most renewables are much more resilient.

I suspect nuclear was pretty good tech overall but the nature of capitalism and realpolitik just meant it never happened most places. And now that renewables are low capital cost, more resilient, and batteries are improving, it's basically dead.

 

[Hubnester]

I liked his other cartoons, the Ciggy Butt Brain one in particular, I bought some stickers of that for my esky. He also did the excellent Rick and Morty short cartoon.

Haven’t watched Smiling Friends yet, but if it’s anything like his other work, it’ll be unique at least.

Michael Cusack is his name if people want to check him out on YouTube. The YOLO videos are funny

Zach Hadel is an accomplished animator in his own right as well, I preferred his work to Cusack's to be honest, but in this show they complement each other nicely, this is definitely more well rounded than anything either of them produced on their own I think.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You'll find it's the stain the hippie movement attached to it along with fear of Chernobyl, which was an isolated case of neglect only the USSR could have engineered.

Fukushima was a huge concern, because rather than neglect it was caused by a natural disaster.
By the same token, whilst the environmental damage was there, it was not in the same league as Chernobyl.

Japan then decommissioned many other Nuclear power plants and built Coal.

They are now copping a lot of flack for not having reduced their emissions much, which is what happens when you replace your 30% Nuclear energy with Coal. In the last 5 years of so they have brought a major Nuclear reactor back online with improved safety systems.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Main problem with nuclear has always been the upfront capital and time investment. It means you need to earn your returns over such a huge timeframe that any non-zero market risk modelled over that period basically makes the project unprofitable for private enterprise.

Governments can make it happen, like in France, but the long time horizon means that there's no benefit for any individual politician in pushing through opposition to do it.

The other problem with big power plants (nuclear/coal/gas/whatever) is the negatives of centralisation. Look at Japan after Fukushima - their power infra was f’ed for years because they lost a big chunk of supply in a heartbeat. Whereas decentralised sources like most renewables are much more resilient.

I suspect nuclear was pretty good tech overall but the nature of capitalism and realpolitik just meant it never happened most places. And now that renewables are low capital cost, more resilient, and batteries are improving, it's basically dead.

I believe we actually need governments to do it.

If you want to invest in Energy, you invest in renewables.
Sometimes you will not be able to supply energy to the grid.
You don't care.

You decide to go off grid. You cover your house and shed in solar panels. You buy a couple of Powerwalls. You buy a 20kw wind turbine, much to the neighbours dismay, you work out you might need a Generator a couple of days per year.
You don't mind spending all that money on the other stuff, but the Generator irks you, because its only for a couple of days a year. What if its a couple of weeks, what if you don't need it at all?
( From an investment point of view, its tricky, someone building a non-renewable in a high renewable grid would have trouble calculating their payback ).

 

[George]

Has anyone watched Smiling Friends yet?



Best original animation I've seen in ages.
Very random but very funny. Heaps of good cameos too.

If you were a part of the internet animation culture in the prime of Newgrounds you should enjoy this.

Michael Cusack? At work so can't watch it just yet

 

[George]

I liked his other cartoons, the Ciggy Butt Brain one in particular, I bought some stickers of that for my esky. He also did the excellent Rick and Morty short cartoon.

Haven’t watched Smiling Friends yet, but if it’s anything like his other work, it’ll be unique at least.

Michael Cusack is his name if people want to check him out on YouTube. The YOLO videos are funny

Didn't see this. Yes Cusack is legendary lol. He created a YOLO series on Adult Swim, you should check it out.

 

[Hubnester]

Michael Cusack? At work so can't watch it just yet

Yep co-created and voiced by Michael Cusack and Zach Hadel (aka Psychicpebbles).

You'll probably know Zach from this animation he did:

 

[gringo2011]

You'll find it's the stain the hippie movement attached to it along with fear of Chernobyl, which was an isolated case of neglect only the USSR could have engineered.

Japan have good engineering and still stuffed it up. The waste is also an issue, no-one wants to take the spent material and cost is prohibitive.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Japan have good engineering and still stuffed it up. The waste is also an issue, no-one wants to take the spent material and cost is prohibitive.

Phhht, drill a hole in the desert far away from groundwater and drop it down. We already have hills full of uranium a lot shallower.

( of course Russians think its OK to scuttle nuclear submarines in deep water ).