Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[gringo2011]

The French have never looked back.
Part of the cost factor is the cost of building "Anything " in places like Australia now.

Nuclear Power in Indonesia - World Nuclear Association

Indonesia's population of about 280 million is served by power generation capacity of only about 90 GWe. A 10 MWe experimental nuclear power reactor is planned to be built at Serpong, near Jakarta. Conceptual design has been completed by Russia.

world-nuclear.org

Some of the costs of Nuclear have been overstated as well.

Solar is cheap.......if you measure the cost of supplying electricity on a sunny day.
If we talk 24 hour supply, it means creating huge over-capacity ( to allow for cloudy days etc ) and storage facilities.
Right now the cost of batteries for storage is 100s of times more expensive than the cost of sunny day solar.

Its not about electricity costs for generation, its all about return on investment.

So far no-one is coming close to getting 100% renewable unless they have small population and large hydro facilities.

I'm building an off grid cabin and have done a bit of research on small scale solar. The costs are coming right down and you can fit out a pretty good small scale set up with batteries for a few grand.

Storage will become an on premises thing with wall batteries the norm IMO. You take solar all day and put back into the grid what is unused. You store your own and perhaps each street carries their own extra batteries for street lighting etc. Run some extra gas generation for everything else and nationalise the gas supply for internal use before we sell any overseas.

 

[gringo2011]

Phhht, drill a hole in the desert far away from groundwater and drop it down. We already have hills full of uranium a lot shallower.

( of course Russians think its OK to scuttle nuclear submarines in deep water ).

It's not something anyone wants anywhere near them. There isn't a fool proof spot unfortunately. There was a ship full of spent waste that couldn't land anywhere for years because no-one wanted it. Other countries wanted us to take it back because we sold them the uranium.

 

[Noidenous]

Japan have good engineering and still stuffed it up. The waste is also an issue, no-one wants to take the spent material and cost is prohibitive.

Stuffed it up?

They had a tsunami. That's like saying Tonga failed by having a volcanic eruption.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm building an off grid cabin and have done a bit of research on small scale solar. The costs are coming right down and you can fit out a pretty good small scale set up with batteries for a few grand.

Storage will become an on premises thing with wall batteries the norm IMO. You take solar all day and put back into the grid what is unused. You store your own and perhaps each street carries their own extra batteries for street lighting etc. Run some extra gas generation for everything else and nationalise the gas supply for internal use before we sell any overseas.

I like that idea.

We need to rip out some of the gas turbines we have ( DC9 Engines that the New Zealand government decommissioned, because they were bad for the environment FFS .....shoulda burned them ) and build some good ones.

 

[gringo2011]

Stuffed it up?

They had a tsunami. That's like saying Tonga failed by having a volcanic eruption.

Then it wasn't built with enough safe guards to protect against that outcome and exactly why it's not going to be easy for any government trying to guarantee safety of the system. If Tonga had a nuclear power plant that melted down and polluted marine environments as far as the US coast then it would.

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

Fukushima was a huge concern, because rather than neglect it was caused by a natural disaster.

The Three Mile Island accident in Pennsylvania also sticks in peoples minds. That came very close to being a Chernobyl style incident in the US that took nearly 14 years to properly clean up.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The Three Mile Island accident in Pennsylvania also sticks in peoples minds. That came very close to being a Chernobyl style incident in the US that took nearly 14 years to properly clean up.

It wasn't that close to Chernobyl, and they used the failure to redesign Power Stations.

Mechanical failure and Homer didn't know what to do.

Three Mile Island | TMI 2 |Three Mile Island Accident. - World Nuclear Association

Three Mile Island: In 1979 at Three Mile Island in USA a cooling malfunction caused part of the (TMI 2) core to melt. The reactor was destroyed but there were no injuries or adverse health effects from the Three Mile Island accident. Some radioactive gas was released a couple of days after the...

www.world-nuclear.org

Summary​

What happened:

• After shutting down the fission reaction, the TMI-2 reactor's fuel core became uncovered and more than one third of the fuel melted.
• Inadequate instrumentation and training programs at the time hampered operators' ability to respond to the accident.
• The accident was accompanied by communications problems that led to conflicting information available to the public, contributing to the public's fears
• A small amount of radiation was released from the plant. The releases were not serious and were not health hazards. This was confirmed by thousands of environmental and other samples and measurements taken during the accident.
• The containment building worked as designed. Despite melting of about one-third of the fuel core, the reactor vessel itself maintained its integrity and contained the damaged fuel.

What did not happen:

• There was no "China Syndrome".
• There were no injuries or detectable health impacts from the accident, beyond the initial stress.

Longer-term impacts:

• Applying the accident's lessons produced important, continuing improvement in the performance of all nuclear power plants.
• The accident fostered better understanding of fuel melting, including improbability of a "China Syndrome" meltdown breaching the reactor vessel and the containment structure.
• Public confidence in nuclear energy, particularly in USA, declined sharply following the Three Mile Island accident. It was a major cause of the decline in nuclear construction through the 1980s and 1990s.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Wasn't the big issue of Nucellar power here is that we just do not have the expertise or people needed?

 

[Joffaboy]

I'm building an off grid cabin and have done a bit of research on small scale solar. The costs are coming right down and you can fit out a pretty good small scale set up with batteries for a few grand.

Storage will become an on premises thing with wall batteries the norm IMO. You take solar all day and put back into the grid what is unused. You store your own and perhaps each street carries their own extra batteries for street lighting etc. Run some extra gas generation for everything else and nationalise the gas supply for internal use before we sell any overseas.

You sound like you are going all Uni Bomber on us.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm building an off grid cabin and have done a bit of research on small scale solar. The costs are coming right down and you can fit out a pretty good small scale set up with batteries for a few grand.

Storage will become an on premises thing with wall batteries the norm IMO. You take solar all day and put back into the grid what is unused. You store your own and perhaps each street carries their own extra batteries for street lighting etc. Run some extra gas generation for everything else and nationalise the gas supply for internal use before we sell any overseas.

If its only for Vacation its a great idea, the cost of paying the fixed part of the bill each month is ridiculous.

I've seen older homes in areas where power was simply not available, run pretty happily with low voltage lighting and a kerosene refrigerator.

They had an old lighting generator hooked up to a little antique stationary engine. Put in a Litre of petrol until it ran out ( truck type batteries after that ).
These days lighting is even easier with LED's.

I don't know how easy it is to get a Kerosine refrigerator, but its ridiculous how little fuel they use.

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

With a cabin you probably don't need too many dishwasher's etc , so overnight electricity could easily just be TV, Lighting and computer/tablet ( for big footy ).

If its off grid water management as well it can be interesting.
Instead of using an energy intensive pressure pump, you can use a solar pump to pump from a main tank to a header tank, then gravity feed all your water.

A low pressure hot water service in your roof can use solar as well as wood heater coils.
( I had this in my house at Perth, most of summer we just ran on Solar, in Winter if we used the open fire we didn't need to switch on the electricity to the hot water ).

You might have trouble charging your Tesla there though.

 

[gringo2011]

Wasn't the big issue of Nucellar power here is that we just do not have the expertise or people needed?

It's one of the most expensive energy sources and dumping is still a huge impediment to it ever getting going even if costs come down.

 

[gringo2011]

If its only for Vacation its a great idea, the cost of paying the fixed part of the bill each month is ridiculous.

I've seen older homes in areas where power was simply not available, run pretty happily with low voltage lighting and a kerosene refrigerator.

They had an old lighting generator hooked up to a little antique stationary engine. Put in a Litre of petrol until it ran out ( truck type batteries after that ).
These days lighting is even easier with LED's.

I don't know how easy it is to get a Kerosine refrigerator, but its ridiculous how little fuel they use.

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

With a cabin you probably don't need too many dishwasher's etc , so overnight electricity could easily just be TV, Lighting and computer/tablet ( for big footy ).

If its off grid water management as well it can be interesting.
Instead of using an energy intensive pressure pump, you can use a solar pump to pump from a main tank to a header tank, then gravity feed all your water.

A low pressure hot water service in your roof can use solar as well as wood heater coils.
( I had this in my house at Perth, most of summer we just ran on Solar, in Winter if we used the open fire we didn't need to switch on the electricity to the hot water ).

You might have trouble charging your Tesla there though.

I don't have my own Tesla and aren't in a hurry to get one. I like my long distance travel too much. I'm going really basic. Composting toilet system, rain water tanks with solar pump. Hotter will just be a caravan style set up with little gas bottle hot water units for washing up and an outdoor shower with it's own unit. It's on a river so can pump water up as well.

We had a few old family farms in Gippsland that had those Kero fridges out on the veranda still. They stink but work okay. I'm going to use a small energy efficient electric one on solar/battery.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's one of the most expensive energy sources and dumping is still a huge impediment to it ever getting going even if costs come down.

Someone proposed an idea i liked that Australia could be a full nuclear service provider.

It included us supplying non-weapons grade Uranium and taking back the depleted stuff.

We really do have a lot of empty places we could put it.

Nuclear Power Economics | Nuclear Energy Costs - World Nuclear Association

Nuclear power is cost competitive with other forms of electricity generation. Nuclear fuel costs for nuclear plants are a minor proportion of total generating costs, though capital costs are greater.

world-nuclear.org

Solar can seem cheap, but its the most expensive power in the middle of the night. No matter how many panels you install they still generate nothing.

 

[Yawkey way]

You sound like you are going all Uni Bomber on us.

I was going to ask gringo if he is planning on going full preper or Ivan Milat, or perhaps just being the guy who ends up bound and gagged with all his stuff stolen.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Solar can seem cheap, but its the most expensive power in the middle of the night. No matter how many panels you install they still generate nothing.

This nation has a lot of Sun, Wind and Waves.

Renewables should have been something that we must be world leaders, there is a boom coming, its either get bank or be bitches.

I want bank not my nation to be a bitch.

 

[gringo2011]

Someone proposed an idea i liked that Australia could be a full nuclear service provider.

It included us supplying non-weapons grade Uranium and taking back the depleted stuff.

We really do have a lot of empty places we could put it.

Nuclear Power Economics | Nuclear Energy Costs - World Nuclear Association

Nuclear power is cost competitive with other forms of electricity generation. Nuclear fuel costs for nuclear plants are a minor proportion of total generating costs, though capital costs are greater.

world-nuclear.org

Solar can seem cheap, but its the most expensive power in the middle of the night. No matter how many panels you install they still generate nothing.

That's why you have wind and on site batteries will be the future IMO, especially with cars. My father in law has massive amounts of solar and uses a wall battery and the Tesla car battery to store it. When he has the car in the garage it's helping power the house.

I doubt anyone will want the storage near them with nuclear. We can't shove it out in the desert due to transport safety and cost issues and coastal areas are very unlikely to be popular.

 

[gringo2011]

You sound like you are going all Uni Bomber on us.

I'm more like a poncey camper who hates discomfort but likes the bush. I went up there with my mates and slept in my glamping tent with all the little accessories like tables, rugs and cushions and they all took the piss out of me all weekend, campaigners were jealous as ****, I was living like a king and they were in their pissy little mens tents.

 

[George]

I'm more like a poncey camper who hates discomfort but likes the bush. I went up there with my mates and slept in my glamping tent with all the little accessories like tables, rugs and cushions and they all took the piss out of me all weekend, campaigners were jealous as fu**, I was living like a king and they were in their pissy little mens tents.

Just admit you're glamping with a fancy outdoor shitter and leave it at that

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That's why you have wind and on site batteries will be the future IMO, especially with cars. My father in law has massive amounts of solar and uses a wall battery and the Tesla car battery to store it. When he has the car in the garage it's helping power the house.

I doubt anyone will want the storage near them with nuclear. We can't shove it out in the desert due to transport safety and cost issues and coastal areas are very unlikely to be popular.

You can't charge your Tesla if you're drawing power off it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

This nation has a lot of Sun, Wind and Waves.

Renewables should have been something that we must be world leaders, there is a boom coming, its either get bank or be bitches.

I want bank not my nation to be a b*tch.

That gives us a lot of sunbathers, yatchsmen, and surfers. It doesn't give us techonology.

For example we have bugger all inverter technology .

We abandoned electronics in the late 70s.
Companies like Siemens and ABB are the go to.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't have my own Tesla and aren't in a hurry to get one. I like my long distance travel too much. I'm going really basic. Composting toilet system, rain water tanks with solar pump. Hotter will just be a caravan style set up with little gas bottle hot water units for washing up and an outdoor shower with it's own unit. It's on a river so can pump water up as well.

We had a few old family farms in Gippsland that had those Kero fridges out on the veranda still. They stink but work okay. I'm going to use a small energy efficient electric one on solar/battery.

 

[StFly]

You can't charge your Tesla if you're drawing power off it.

Yet, give Elon a few weeks and he'll have not only that, but it'll also sing your favourite tunes, do your taxes and remind you what day is bin day. Then breakdown just after warranty is voided for the lols and drive you back to the dealership, or itself, depends when it happens.

 

[gringo2011]

Just admit you're glamping with a fancy outdoor shitter and leave it at that

I bought it so my wife would come camping but I like it a bit too much for my own good. It beats trying to get your pants on bent over double and sleeping in a sleeping bag. I'm trying to convince myself that it looks like an Indiana Jones tent more than a Nadia Bartel Insta prop.

 

[gringo2011]

You can't charge your Tesla if you're drawing power off it.

If it's full and you run down the wall batteries it can draw back. I doubt he's had it draw down even.

 

[Yawkey way]

Putting the band back together.