Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[gringo2011]

My mum in law is addicted to cruise ships out of Sydney ( she took the one before the covid ship ).
Her and her friend always take a train from Melbourne, its easier and more relaxing than a Plane, and she is kind of well endowed, so the train is good for that. The suburban trains to link up suck though. Luckily her friend lives in KooWeeRup and they can get a V-Line bus service from there, train from Pakenham.

Imagine if we had a proper train system , and we could do Melbourne to Brisbane in around 8 hours without all the drama associated with getting in and out of airports.

I've gone a measly 100km or so by train in germany. Good experience.
Arrive at airport, walk to train platform in airport.
Buy ticket, wait half an hour.
Shove your suitcase in the corner, sit on a comfortable seat with lots of legroom and a little coffee table. They probably have wifi by now.
travel 100km in an hour 10, including stopping all stations ( train goes around 200km/h ).

It bugs me no end that the preferred means of travel to the airport for the company i work for is taxi. They report CO2 emissions for company cars as part of trying to look green and improve, but they catch a taxi to the airport that takes the same time as a train. Germans have learned "prestige" from americans.

I've done sleeper trains overseas but they get boring quickly. The fast trains are good but I still lose patience after a while even when you off set the airport time, it breaks it up. In Europe you can change countries very cheaply on budget airlines. Just don't take luggage with you.

I love the German trains where you can get to the airport by train with no fuss. Same in Singapore. In Australia they would miss the connection.

 

[prophetic1]

I've done sleeper trains overseas but they get boring quickly. The fast trains are good but I still lose patience after a while even when you off set the airport time, it breaks it up. In Europe you can change countries very cheaply on budget airlines. Just don't take luggage with you.

I love the German trains where you can get to the airport by train with no fuss. Same in Singapore. In Australia they would miss the connection.

I travelled throughout Italy, Sicily Sardinia and Corsica all over the place in the late 80's 90's using the Carta Verde on the train so cheap............sooooo slow ...stationary more than moving....but its all about mind set....we loved it.....best people met generally and learnt and played a game called Scopa endlessly.... good memories. I dont know what the Italian Rail is like now probably wonderful....no idea! I know Corsica is not Italian but French...but it was interesting in Bonifacio they spoke French with an Italian Accent.

 

[gringo2011]

BRUTALIST ARCHITECTURE......I think when its in an isolated incidence in an area, it can add a flavour and be dynamic, bold and almost handsome! If the style is en masse in the area without gentility and elegance to counter its brutal handsome charm...its ugly and damning to the area....I dont mind it ! It has to be maintained like many styles....or else it looks abandoned and grundgy. At its worst in areas it can reflect the lack of love and care that surrounds it.

I love true brutalist architecture. France has some great stuff. We did budget eastern block a lot of the time.

 

[gringo2011]

I travelled throughout Italy, Sicily Sardinia and Corsica all over the place in the late 80's 90's using the Carta Verde on the train so cheap............sooooo slow ...stationary more than moving....but its all about mind set....we loved it.....best people met generally and learnt and played a game called Scopa endlessly.... good memories. I dont know what the Italian Rail is like now probably wonderful....no idea! I know Corsica is not Italian but French...but it was interesting in Bonifacio they spoke French with an Italian Accent.

We were on the Frecchia Rossa when they were reporting that the train behind us doing the same line derailed. It was surreal because they were reporting on the TV on board that the train we were on had crashed. It felt like we were in an episode of the twilight zone.

 

[Sun Ra]

BRUTALIST ARCHITECTURE......I think when its in an isolated incidence in an area, it can add a flavour and be dynamic, bold and almost handsome! If the style is en masse in the area without gentility and elegance to counter its brutal handsome charm...its ugly and damning to the area....I dont mind it ! It has to be maintained like many styles....or else it looks abandoned and grundgy. At its worst in areas it can reflect the lack of love and care that surrounds it.

Melbourne hasn't recovered from the Green Latrine and the Gas & Fuel Towers being pulled down. So sad.

 

[gringo2011]

Melbourne hasn't recovered from the Green Latrine and the Gas & Fuel Towers being pulled down. So sad.

The G&F was a nice mid century building and was proper Mies Vander Rohe modernist. It's totally back in vogue now. Pulling down the Southern Cross Hotel was the same kind of architectural vandalism as dropping the Corkman Hotel.

 

[Sun Ra]

The G&F was a nice mid century building and was proper Mies Vander Rohe modernist. It's totally back in vogue now. Pulling down the Southern Cross Hotel was the same kind of architectural vandalism as dropping the Corkman Hotel.

Loved the Southern Cross.

 

[Joffaboy]

What's funny is that it's obviously been there forever but it wasn't strong in my memory, perhaps it kind of decayed itself into it's surroundings. Sydney has quite a lot of big apartment blocks that shouldn't have been built so they get lost in the crowd.

Maybe because we were literally right next to it, it looked so hideous.

Oh and I like Kowloon. HK has a slightly high population density to Sydney, like the densest in the world.
The reason it should go is that Tamarama is a beautiful small Sydney beach flanked by bushland and small dwellings and that thing is a disgusting hideous eyesore that shows the worst of council corruption and developer greed at the expense of everyone else.

 

[prophetic1]

The G&F was a nice mid century building and was proper Mies Vander Rohe modernist. It's totally back in vogue now. Pulling down the Southern Cross Hotel was the same kind of architectural vandalism as dropping the Corkman Hotel.

Not so sure about Gas and Fuel building..... ...but again ............context and style!

 

[prophetic1]

nt

I love true brutalist architecture. France has some great stuff. We did budget eastern block a lot of the time.

Brutalist Beauties in Melbourne That You’ll Want to Instagram

A new map from London-based publishers Blue Crow Media charts concrete structures and the importance of Brutalism in Melbourne, Australia

www.anothermag.com

This article I found ...is cool when it picks 10 of the most iconic BRUTALIST Buildings in Melbourne.....You might have already seen it. I just thought for anyone interested ...some because they are so familiar but just don't come to mind even though you've walked past them every day in some part of your life ...for a while at least.
Then you see these and go...Oh hell yeah i forgot about that one!

It brings to mind Art School essays debates ....all the answers and all the questions...often completely ase about ,...almost mandatorily........Modernism....then getting your head around Post Modernism and beyond....The Academic side..the History, The Context and the Aesthetics. Of course, majoring in Sculpture ...the Materials Forms Ideas...It was a beautiful 5 or 6 years...and of course all the groovy yet often damaging party time ephemera and accoutrement that goes hand in glove with Fine Art. Well it did then but as time goes by i guess we idealize everything.

As we will no doubt do regarding these wilderness years without a Cup for the cupboard here at the SAINTS

 

[prophetic1]

Melbourne hasn't recovered from the Green Latrine and the Gas & Fuel Towers being pulled down. So sad.

Worthy of a picture...you know I'd almost forgotten what it looked like....not really ...how could you?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

BRUTALIST ARCHITECTURE......I think when its in an isolated incidence in an area, it can add a flavour and be dynamic, bold and almost handsome! If the style is en masse in the area without gentility and elegance to counter its brutal handsome charm...its ugly and damning to the area....I dont mind it ! It has to be maintained like many styles....or else it looks abandoned and grundgy. At its worst in areas it can reflect the lack of love and care that surrounds it.

I think the original was nicknamed the Russian Hospital.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Maybe because we were literally right next to it, it looked so hideous.

Oh and I like Kowloon. HK has a slightly high population density to Sydney, like the densest in the world.
The reason it should go is that Tamarama is a beautiful small Sydney beach flanked by bushland and small dwellings and that thing is a disgusting hideous eyesore that shows the worst of council corruption and developer greed at the expense of everyone else.

Sure fine , buy it , and you get to tear it down. You can build parkland on the site and everyone will love your generosity.
Otherwise you don't get to tell other people to tear down their property because you don't like it.

I liked Kowloon too, i thought it a pity they moved out of the old area to the new shops , not so many bargains to be found these days either, but that's progress. All the markets at thailand, hong kong, Vic Market, all seem to have the same junk now too.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I love true brutalist architecture. France has some great stuff. We did budget eastern block a lot of the time.

Melbourne's commission flats were actually pretty innovative.

 

[prophetic1]

Melbourne's commission flats were actually pretty innovative.

Great point...in terms of times and the needs in terms of housing....yeah...I just never liked them...little or no appeal to me ... but they have served well in their years for their purpose...the time will come when they will have to come down and i will be well dead and wont protest one bit....not even if I lived. ....One thing for sure whatever they build to replace that need I hope its better and that it is nothing but quality and cost is not the prime consideration ...the best that can be built for all those that require them.

 

[Joffaboy]

Melbourne's commission flats were actually pretty innovative.

Slums in the sky. Demolished streets of terraces and semi detached houses, sent the iron lattice work to New Orleans, and got the workers into to so as to stop, 'slum behaviour'.
Result was that the grounds around them became full of rubbish and crime as nobody felt ownership of the land.

As Melbourne were putting them up France were pulling them down.

Ugly, soul sapping class war perpetuated on the poor.

 

[gringo2011]

Loved the Southern Cross.

The ICI building at the top of Collins street is a brilliant mid century NYC style building with a pretty well preserved foyer with sculptures and internal garden. Worth a look if you like that era.

SC was a Melbourne icon, its cultural status should have made it untouchable. Kind of fitting though that white people ****ed Nauru into the ground and the Nauruans used their cash to put a massive hole in the middle of the city for 20 years.

 

[gringo2011]

Melbourne's commission flats were actually pretty innovative.

Apart from the small windows they are really quite nicely designed externally. When Kennett was going to sell them off to rich guys I got to go on a tour with a mate down at South Melbourne, Collingwood and St Kilda. They are pretty small inside but the views were extraordinary. If you were a dole bludger that got one of the top flats you were going well. They are as good as a lot of modern apartments if not better. They are super solid too. A lot of modern apartment blocks are only designed to last around 25 years. Those commission flats were rock solid and will outlast society.

 

[gringo2011]

Slums in the sky. Demolished streets of terraces and semi detached houses, sent the iron lattice work to New Orleans, and got the workers into to so as to stop, 'slum behaviour'.
Result was that the grounds around them became full of rubbish and crime as nobody felt ownership of the land.

As Melbourne were putting them up France were pulling them down.

Ugly, soul sapping class war perpetuated on the poor.

Those ones in France are sprawling estates of disfunction sent out to the outskirts. Melbourne stuck them in prime real estate areas where there was less stigma. Ours are kind of successful compared to most places in the world.

 

[prophetic1]

Apart from the small windows they are really quite nicely designed externally. When Kennett was going to sell them off to rich guys I got to go on a tour with a mate down at South Melbourne, Collingwood and St Kilda. They are pretty small inside but the views were extraordinary. If you were a dole bludger that got one of the top flats you were going well. They are as good as a lot of modern apartments if not better. They are super solid too. A lot of modern apartment blocks are only designed to last around 25 years. Those commission flats were rock solid and will outlast society.

I visited an old mate there last week...not my experience at all....They could be a lot better ...just my POV though..the architecture is shabby IMO....

 

[prophetic1]

Those ones in France are sprawling estates of disfunction sent out to the outskirts. Melbourne stuck them in prime real estate areas where there was less stigma. Ours are kind of successful compared to most places in the world.

Not so sure about that...but interesting perspective!

 

[gringo2011]

I visited an old mate there last week...not my experience at all....They could be a lot better ...just my POV though..the architecture is shabby IMO....

Chuck a bit of tiling and paint around and they could be tarted up very easily. I think they'd cleaned them up and showed the flats that were well kept with million dollar views to excite the real estate investors.

 

[gringo2011]

Not so sure about that...but interesting perspective!

The UK and France made huge estates where there were suburbs of undesirables that stigmatised you as a loser and entrenched poverty. Here the kids went to schools with the middle class kids and while they probably didn't bring them home at least you had a chance to turn out alright. That's a success to me. Social mobility is still pretty good in Australia compared to the rest of the world.

 

[Sun Ra]

Worthy of a picture...you know I'd almost forgotten View attachment 1361025what it looked like....not really ...how could you?

It was as ugly as sin. I have a mate who used to work there - ex-public servant who has a BBQ that is covered in those green tiles he
recovered from the demolition site. The BBQ is as ugly as sin as well.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I’ve flown up there god knows how many times, caught a bus back once, hitched, driven it in just over 18 hours with one non petrol stop, and caught the train sitting up and in a sleeper. If you the have time the sleeper wins hands down it’s super relaxing, you’re own shower and toilet, a dining car or order and dine in.

The trains are a lot different these days.
The XPT which does both the Melbourne-Sydney and Sydney-Brisbane there's only 1 sleeping located at the Melbourne end of the train.
The food is more airline style from the buffet car.
Much different from the days of the Spirit of Progress, Southern Aurora, Intercapital daylight and the Brisbane Limited.

Just look at a train like The Overland. Once a train that had easily 15 cars on it. Now down to 5.

Worthy of a picture...you know I'd almost forgotten View attachment 1361025what it looked like....not really ...how could you?

Underneath on platforms 14, 15 and 16 were a dungeon.