Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[Sun Ra]

Some of those tradies are trashing uncompleted homes. That helps no-one.
If you are a tradie , you've done OK over the boom. Suck it up like any other business owner.

Even fire bombing them by the looks. campaigners.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Jesus
Thats not good

Im building atm so hopefully my mob stay afloat for another year at least

 

[Dard Ball Get]

gringo2011 in raptures

 

[PoppedCorn]

Did u get one DBG?

 

[Mowman]

Some of those tradies are trashing uncompleted homes. That helps no-one.
If you are a tradie , you've done OK over the boom. Suck it up like any other business owner.

That’s 0.5% of tradies

I know a bloke who is owed $165k poor bloke is f—ked

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Did u get one DBG?

Nah mate, more tequila these days

 

[gringo2011]

That’s 0.5% of tradies

I know a bloke who is owed $165k poor bloke is f—ked

I know someone who has been retrenched because Probuild left their Steele fabrication company with a huge debt for materials and labour and went under. Lots of tradies have done the work including suppling materials and the administrators are paying out the creditors that they want to and giving them nothing. That's why they are trashing houses and stuff IMO.

 

[StFly]

Did u get one DBG?

I don't drink booze but I was considering it just because I've eaten at that place, I've fam that works there and that's part of my Italian sides place so you know, nice place great people and what not.

 

[PoppedCorn]

I work in the industry so keep my eye on stuff now and then

I wont drink it but itll sit there and look pretty with some other saints stuff

Gringo wont drink it
Its not pink enought

 

[bergholt]

I know someone who has been retrenched because Probuild left their Steele fabrication company with a huge debt for materials and labour and went under. Lots of tradies have done the work including suppling materials and the administrators are paying out the creditors that they want to and giving them nothing. That's why they are trashing houses and stuff IMO.

Yeah I’ve been on the creditor side of bankruptcy a couple of times, it’s not pretty at all. Literally nothing you can do.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah I’ve been on the creditor side of bankruptcy a couple of times, it’s not pretty at all. Literally nothing you can do.

I'd like to think that I'd not want to burn houses and go-ape shit but I'm not 100% sure that I wouldn't want to mindlessly trash stuff in a fit of rage.

This Steele fabricator has been going 40 years or something and the big developers have some policy where they withhold money on trust to pay later incase of defects or shoddy work. They were meant to have that banked but the administrators just told them to **** off and didn't pay outright on a huge job on which they were still holding a bill for all the materials. It sounds like about $4 million out of pocket and it was enough to tip them over.

There will be plenty of those stories when the big players topple.

 

[Saint Ray]

That's my grandma you are talking about campaigner. How much longer does she have to put up with this BS ?

I have no idea how long, but it is one weekend in a year.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That’s 0.5% of tradies

I know a bloke who is owed $165k poor bloke is f—ked

How long since he got paid?
I know a bloke who got stiffed as a project manager , lost money in that order when a customer stiffed him. ( Continually claiming minor issues to justify witholding total or partial payment while the legal fees stack up ). Play that game you can't live on the edge.

Every business can be screwed by customers who go under.
Dont like it, go PAYE.

Trashing the houses is akin to trashing peoples cars because the headlight maker owes you money.
No skin off the builder's nose.

 

[Mowman]

How long since he got paid?
I know a bloke who got stiffed as a project manager , lost money in that order when a customer stiffed him. ( Continually claiming minor issues to justify witholding total or partial payment while the legal fees stack up ). Play that game you can't live on the edge.

Every business can be screwed by customers who go under.
Dont like it, go PAYE.

Trashing the houses is akin to trashing peoples cars because the headlight maker owes you money.
No skin off the builder's nose.

All porter davis tradies were on end of month 60 days

Your talking a couple of people out of 1000s of workers

Has it been proven it was tradies

 

[SaintsSeptember]

All porter davis tradies were on end of month 60 days

Your talking a couple of people out of 1000s of workers

Has it been proven it was tradies

$165K 60 days. Probably for years.
Not feeling real sorry for him.
Tradies have been demanding top dollar for a long time now. No-one ever said a bricklayer should earn as much as a Lawyer.

Go PAYE if you can't take the heat.

 

[Mowman]

$165K 60 days. Probably for years.
Not feeling real sorry for him.
Tradies have been demanding top dollar for a long time now. No-one ever said a bricklayer should earn as much as a Lawyer.

Go PAYE if you can't take the heat.

I have read some absolutely rubbish on here over the years but that’s up there

Yeah only blokes in suits should make money lol

 

[gringo2011]

$165K 60 days. Probably for years.
Not feeling real sorry for him.
Tradies have been demanding top dollar for a long time now. No-one ever said a bricklayer should earn as much as a Lawyer.

Go PAYE if you can't take the heat.

That's how markets work though. When you have 3 bricklayers to do 50 jobs the price increases. When every year anther 1000 lawyers graduate and only 100 positions become vacant they aren't as in demand.

Most lawyers I know are doing a lot better than the tradies too by the way. Make senior partner in a law firm and you are on a million a year. You don't see many brickies doing that. A guy who runs a plumbing business with a heap of workers maybe.

 

[Mowman]

That's how markets work though. When you have 3 bricklayers to do 50 jobs the price increases. When every year anther 1000 lawyers graduate and only 100 positions become vacant they aren't as in demand.

Most lawyers I know are doing a lot better than the tradies too by the way. Make senior partner in a law firm and you are on a million a year. You don't see many brickies doing that. A guy who runs a plumbing business with a heap of workers maybe.

Fancy thinking a bloke that’s worked his whole life employs 4 blokes trained up a dozen apprentices over the years , that’s it’s ok that he has been shafted because he has made a living for himself

 

[CaptainRisky]

There was talk of getting a second one the other day on SA radio
One in adeliade and one in melb

Surely not?!

Never ever going to happen , they were just talking sh1t

 

[CursingFijian]

3 hour compilation of goal kicking practice

I heard on one of the podcasts (I think the Tradies) that Melbourne have an in depth goal kicking training regimen that the coaches and players take very seriously.

 

[CursingFijian]

I’m a tradie who has lost money, and the system is so ****ed, it has literally made me cry in my Ute on my way to work for ****ing weeks! Man tears too, the kind you quickly wipe dry so nobody can see, because you have to be strong, and end up just bottling it all inside.

One business asked me to deliver materials on a Friday, knowing full well that their gates were getting padlocked that day, and that I would never get paid for them. ****ing criminal imo.

Another I was working 5 stories up and had all my tools locked up on site and had to literally fight the administrators security just to get them back so I could get to another job and try to patch together some semblance of a cash flow.

On another job the owner builder asked me to do something post build that was off plan (he wanted an attic space) and once I’d formed it he refused to pay because it wasn’t shown on the plan. He was a lawyer in a ****ing mansion in Nedlands overlooking the Swan. He had money coming out his ears, and chose not to pay me because he thought he could get away with it. What a campaigner.

i get so many clients who think I should throw in extra work for free just because they’re paying me for work done. It’s like St Kilda asking the trainee receptionist to vacuum the floors because theyre doing him the favour of paying his receptionist wage. Then they get affronted if you have the dignity to say no.

But worst of all are the liquidators. They send me a document introducing themselves which includes a schedule of rates. The work experience kid that is just packing shit in boxes and who aspires to get an accounting degree they charge out at nearly $60 an hour. The rates go up on a sliding scale to the head honcho who is getting paid upward of $500 an hour. When all is said and done the final report always somehow shows that the liquidators fees miraculously match the entire cash in bank held by the bankrupt entity. And we get asked to accept 3 cents in the dollar as final payment. Meanwhile everything from that business has been sold at auction for a pittance. I was owed $27k for material and labour on one job and called the liquidator and said that I would gladly write that off if I could just get back my unused material on site (worth maybe 5 or 6k). No surprise the answer was no and likely because they know they can screw me even further.

On the 5 storey job, the developer ended up engaging a new builder and they rang me to finish the job. I asked will I be getting paid for the material and labour previously supplied and invoiced, but they said no. I didn’t want to go back to a site that literally made me nauseous so I declined and they paid someone else to finish the job using my material. It makes me feel outraged to this day.

The whole system feels like it is setup to protect the former employees (fair enough) and then the liquidators. Get ****ed I say.

Now people get stroppy with me when I ask for materials to be paid prior to delivery. Or if I stop work because labour invoices haven’t been settled in a timely manner.

I swear to god tradies are underwriting a massive chunk of a lot of builds.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Fancy thinking a bloke that’s worked his whole life employs 4 blokes trained up a dozen apprentices over the years , that’s it’s ok that he has been shafted because he has made a living for himself

He's not been shafted any more than any other creditor has been shafted.

Most companies don't intend to or want to go belly up.
Its not like its some scam.

 

[StFly]

He's not been shafted any more than any other creditor has been shafted.

Most companies don't intend to or want to go belly up.
Its not like its some scam.

Given they were apparently trading whilst insolvent, you might want to revisit the "some scam" comment. As no way shape or form do you take 6 figure funds and call in creditors the very next day after cheques clear.

 

[Mowman]

He's not been shafted any more than any other creditor has been shafted.

Most companies don't intend to or want to go belly up.
Its not like its some scam.

No they have all been shafted tradies and customs

Porter Davis have most definitely scammed customers and tradies for the last 6 months

Just astonishing

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I’m a tradie who has lost money, and the system is so ed, it has literally made me cry in my Ute on my way to work for *** weeks! Man tears too, the kind you quickly wipe dry so nobody can see, because you have to be strong, and end up just bottling it all inside.

One business asked me to deliver materials on a Friday, knowing full well that their gates were getting padlocked that day, and that I would never get paid for them. ******* criminal imo.

Another I was working 5 stories up and had all my tools locked up on site and had to literally fight the administrators security just to get them back so I could get to another job and try to patch together some semblance of a cash flow.

On another job the owner builder asked me to do something post build that was off plan (he wanted an attic space) and once I’d formed it he refused to pay because it wasn’t shown on the plan. He was a lawyer in a ******* mansion in Nedlands overlooking the Swan. He had money coming out his ears, and chose not to pay me because he thought he could get away with it. What a campaigner.

i get so many clients who think I should throw in extra work for free just because they’re paying me for work done. It’s like St Kilda asking the trainee receptionist to vacuum the floors because theyre doing him the favour of paying his receptionist wage. Then they get affronted if you have the dignity to say no.

But worst of all are the liquidators. They send me a document introducing themselves which includes a schedule of rates. The work experience kid that is just packing s**t in boxes and who aspires to get an accounting degree they charge out at nearly $60 an hour. The rates go up on a sliding scale to the head honcho who is getting paid upward of $500 an hour. When all is said and done the final report always somehow shows that the liquidators fees miraculously match the entire cash in bank held by the bankrupt entity. And we get asked to accept 3 cents in the dollar as final payment. Meanwhile everything from that business has been sold at auction for a pittance. I was owed $27k for material and labour on one job and called the liquidator and said that I would gladly write that off if I could just get back my unused material on site (worth maybe 5 or 6k). No surprise the answer was no and likely because they know they can screw me even further.

On the 5 storey job, the developer ended up engaging a new builder and they rang me to finish the job. I asked will I be getting paid for the material and labour previously supplied and invoiced, but they said no. I didn’t want to go back to a site that literally made me nauseous so I declined and they paid someone else to finish the job using my material. It makes me feel outraged to this day.

The whole system feels like it is setup to protect the former employees (fair enough) and then the liquidators. Get ****ed I say.

Now people get stroppy with me when I ask for materials to be paid prior to delivery. Or if I stop work because labour invoices haven’t been settled in a timely manner.

I swear to god tradies are underwriting a massive chunk of a lot of builds.

Being in a supply chain is always the hot seat.
There was a transmission company in Albury, they supplied automatic transmissions to Ford and Holden for years, and when that work dried up, successfully exported to Sanyong. Sanyong declared chapter 8 or whatever crap system they have there, writing off their debts and leaving the transmission maker unpaid and bankrupt. Meanwhile under their crappy rules , you can buy a Sanyong in Australia today.
To me , they should not be able to trade in Australia unless their Australian debt is paid.

Seems with Porter Davis all the focus is on the home owners ( most of which will probably come out OK eventually ) rather than suppliers.
And Yeah asking for stuff to be delivered when they know its happening is pretty low and possibly is illegal. Wonder how long they knew they were stuffed. You don't just SUDDENLY go under like they suggest.

My friend had a case like the "off plan" thing you mentioned. He says he actually would like to kill the guy involved, he's been owed more than $100K for years now.

It should be administrators finishing existing projects, and negotiating the deal. Unfortunately if the developer gets a new builder, they owe the administrators for your materials .

I'd have thought the government will keep a close eye on the administrators , yes they will make money out of it, but its a dirty job that has to be done.
The alternative is far worse:

A Ponzi scheme by any other name: the bursting of China property bubble

Only state intervention can save the day, but the pain is likely to fall on ordinary citizens, say observers

www.theguardian.com

If they get stroppy asking for materials to be paid for, let them get stroppy, if no-one let them pay in arrears they wouldn't get away with it.
Hope you come out the other side ok.