Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[SaintsSeptember]

Spoke to the school about this. It's been put off until later in the year.

Basically, the kids will be shown the following video, then asked to complete some work on it.



FYI this isn't just my kid's school. Gender identity is taught state wide.

I'll take a few days to put my thoughts together clearly, then contact the school again.

While I completely understand that promoting kindness and understanding is important, there are things in the video I fundamentally disagree with.

Very important that when the illiterate kids finish school, they know about gender identity.

 

[gringo2011]

Very important that when the illiterate kids finish school, they know about gender identity.

Within 5 years holding your own information in your head will be irrelevant. Should be teaching critical thinking and change the education system to something for the post work world. We have a system designed to create workers for a disappearing world. AI is going to take jobs off us all soon enough.

Apparently Tesla knows that Musk has burnt his biggest car buying demographic but he sees the future of the company as being in robot production. They are selling it as a $30k robot will replace most menial labour jobs ad last 2 to 4 years. Ramping up to produce millions of them within about 5 years. China also has a heap and already scaling production.

 

[True Believer]

I would like to ask my fellow Saints fans about their experiences overseas with ANZ Credit Cards.

Does this seem par for the course?

You notify the ANZ bank on their website about your intention to travel so as to prevent an automatic trigger to lock your card for ‘suspicious activity’ .

1) you go OS and soon enough go to the ATM to get cash withdraw because you do need some cash in SE Asia. It works, the first time. Second time declined.
2) you try to make a credit cash purchase - declined
3) you try to make an overseas call to ANZ support on your phone which has a local sim in it and cannot support international calls- you can’t tip it up because your credit card doesn’t work.
4) you come back to the hotel and beg a clerk at the front desk to make an emergency call to the ANZ support service - you are in hold for over thirty minutes on international rates on someone eles’s phone . Finally you get through to a call centre in the Philippines where you have all your credentials meticulously checked (in return the person you talk to gives you no name -refuses- no employee number, no call centre name or number , no identification at all. 4) eventually, the person at the call centre says they will ‘forward a request to the security team to u lock your card’ . 30 minutes later, you card is unlocked. You beg upon the call centre staff to assure you that this won’t happen again- they say it shouldn’t .

5) You are wary of ATMs after this experience . You try once - it works. The second time - bang locked again.

6) you go through the entire process all over again. Different town, different hotel clerk. You are sweating every time you use your card that thely lock it again.

fair dinkum
It is so stressful it really screws up your day and adds a constant tension to your solo vacation. Being completely helpless and the call centre having no accountability!

I travel overseas a lot for work, so take this for what it is worth, as I am not covering the costs personally.

Given that it is for work, my work dictates where I spend my time. In my current role, it is Europe and USA, with very occasional, very brief, visits to Asia. In my previous role I would do occasional short Europe trips and spend around 2 weeks at a time in Asia through about 3 or 4 countries per trip, half a dozen times per year.

1) I've never used ANZ bank

2) I use credit card as much as possible (it's a company card, and these days it's HSBC and it's a Mastercard)

3) With the exception of Singapore, I always have some local currency for emergencies

4) I always get my local currency from a Foreign Exchange place before I get on the plane, and I get all of it in one hit

5) I understand people looking to only get small amounts of local currency at a time, but the costs and hassle to me are not worth it. All reasonable hotels have room safes and/or a main safe at reception. Get enough for the whole trip and keep it somewhere safe.

6) The only place I have had an issue with a credit card in recent memory was, of all places, the USA. It was Newport, Rhode Island, and I think the issue was actually the EFTPOS machine at the hotel, although I think the actual region may have been a hotspot for fraud that the bank was cautious about. I was able to use my personal (NAB VISA) credit card with no issues, but the company HSBC Mastercard kept getting blocked.

7) I rarely, if ever, advise the bank that I am travelling overseas. However, as I do it so often, it is probably not an issue for the bank.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Within 5 years holding your own information in your head will be irrelevant. Should be teaching critical thinking and change the education system to something for the post work world. We have a system designed to create workers for a disappearing world. AI is going to take jobs off us all soon enough.

Apparently Tesla knows that Musk has burnt his biggest car buying demographic but he sees the future of the company as being in robot production. They are selling it as a $30k robot will replace most menial labour jobs ad last 2 to 4 years. Ramping up to produce millions of them within about 5 years. China also has a heap and already scaling production.

We're installing a small production robot where i work, its pretty cutting edge ( Made in Denmark of all places ). but also takes a fair bit of setting up. I think we're still some way further off than what you suggest.

Not sure i'd want to be a graphic artist right now though.

 

[gringo2011]

We're installing a small production robot where i work, its pretty cutting edge ( Made in Denmark of all places ). but also takes a fair bit of setting up. I think we're still some way further off than what you suggest.

Not sure i'd want to be a graphic artist right now though.

Or a lawyer, psych, accountant, book keeper, analyst, stock broker or any other role that is easy to replace with programmed AI. 2030 seems to be a consensus date for a lot of forecasters.

 

[joop]

Spoke to the school about this. It's been put off until later in the year.

Basically, the kids will be shown the following video, then asked to complete some work on it.



FYI this isn't just my kid's school. Gender identity is taught state wide.

I'll take a few days to put my thoughts together clearly, then contact the school again.

While I completely understand that promoting kindness and understanding is important, there are things in the video I fundamentally disagree with.

Good for you, I can’t count how many 3 minute videos I watched as a 12 year completely changed the course of my life.

 

[Sully111]

Good for you, I can’t count how many 3 minute videos I watched as a 12 year completely changed the course of my life.

Nice one.

They watch the video, then do course work, then discussion etc. The video content is taught as how things are.

For the record, I have no fears over my Son's wellbeing with this.

 

[bergholt]

I would like to ask my fellow Saints fans about their experiences overseas with ANZ Credit Cards.

Does this seem par for the course?

You notify the ANZ bank on their website about your intention to travel so as to prevent an automatic trigger to lock your card for ‘suspicious activity’ .

1) you go OS and soon enough go to the ATM to get cash withdraw because you do need some cash in SE Asia. It works, the first time. Second time declined.
2) you try to make a credit cash purchase - declined
3) you try to make an overseas call to ANZ support on your phone which has a local sim in it and cannot support international calls- you can’t tip it up because your credit card doesn’t work.
4) you come back to the hotel and beg a clerk at the front desk to make an emergency call to the ANZ support service - you are in hold for over thirty minutes on international rates on someone eles’s phone . Finally you get through to a call centre in the Philippines where you have all your credentials meticulously checked (in return the person you talk to gives you no name -refuses- no employee number, no call centre name or number , no identification at all. 4) eventually, the person at the call centre says they will ‘forward a request to the security team to u lock your card’ . 30 minutes later, you card is unlocked. You beg upon the call centre staff to assure you that this won’t happen again- they say it shouldn’t .

5) You are wary of ATMs after this experience . You try once - it works. The second time - bang locked again.

6) you go through the entire process all over again. Different town, different hotel clerk. You are sweating every time you use your card that thely lock it again.

fair dinkum
It is so stressful it really screws up your day and adds a constant tension to your solo vacation. Being completely helpless and the call centre having no accountability!

No personal experience but a mate is high up at ANZ and says basically the whole place is ****ed

 

[SG34]

Or a lawyer, psych, accountant, book keeper, analyst, stock broker or any other role that is easy to replace with programmed AI. 2030 seems to be a consensus date for a lot of forecasters.

What about counselling?
Do you trust AI and the ‘system’ with your confidential stuff? ChatGPT certainly has no problems talking about all kinds of stuff mental health related? It costs 600 bucks an hour to see a shrink last time I checked! If you can manage to book one.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What about counselling?
Do you trust AI and the ‘system’ with your confidential stuff? ChatGPT certainly has no problems talking about all kinds of stuff mental health related? It costs 600 bucks an hour to see a shrink last time I checked! If you can manage to book one.

I guess the whole "getting a doctorate" thing is overrated if AI can do it just as well.

 

[gringo2011]

What about counselling?
Do you trust AI and the ‘system’ with your confidential stuff? ChatGPT certainly has no problems talking about all kinds of stuff mental health related? It costs 600 bucks an hour to see a shrink last time I checked! If you can manage to book one.

Yep, 100% it's already available now. A lot of people like the face to face because talking to people helps when you're isolated or feeling depressed so will still have a place.

I don't trust any of it. Musk, Thiel and others aren't in government for fun. They'll use it to make it easier to push AI and surveillance on the people. The government agencies being killed off will be replaced by AI.

 

[SG34]

I travel overseas a lot for work, so take this for what it is worth, as I am not covering the costs personally.

Given that it is for work, my work dictates where I spend my time. In my current role, it is Europe and USA, with very occasional, very brief, visits to Asia. In my previous role I would do occasional short Europe trips and spend around 2 weeks at a time in Asia through about 3 or 4 countries per trip, half a dozen times per year.

1) I've never used ANZ bank

2) I use credit card as much as possible (it's a company card, and these days it's HSBC and it's a Mastercard)

3) With the exception of Singapore, I always have some local currency for emergencies

4) I always get my local currency from a Foreign Exchange place before I get on the plane, and I get all of it in one hit

5) I understand people looking to only get small amounts of local currency at a time, but the costs and hassle to me are not worth it. All reasonable hotels have room safes and/or a main safe at reception. Get enough for the whole trip and keep it somewhere safe.

6) The only place I have had an issue with a credit card in recent memory was, of all places, the USA. It was Newport, Rhode Island, and I think the issue was actually the EFTPOS machine at the hotel, although I think the actual region may have been a hotspot for fraud that the bank was cautious about. I was able to use my personal (NAB VISA) credit card with no issues, but the company HSBC Mastercard kept getting blocked.

7) I rarely, if ever, advise the bank that I am travelling overseas. However, as I do it so often, it is probably not an issue for the bank.

Thank you for this.

ANZ told me I have to notify them before travel.

I followed their instructions and they still blocked me.

I guess being blocked once, has flagged me as a ‘high risk’ individual, and the country Thailand, as a ‘high risk’..

Like others things, once you’ve been marked, you will be marked again.

This makes me, along with the appalling lack of accountability in their support, and other bank things, believe that banks are evil. And that I hope cyber currency wipes them out. But I know that is folly. Any financial institution in an oligopoly will serve its share holders, and BitCoin is an empire built on speculation just like all things.

Damn.

I had to tell myself to calm down last night. I look like a whining lil sod, after dealing with the hotel reception , still not knowing if they’ll unlock it a second time.

Cheers.

I think I will apply your strategy. Despite the appalling rates one gets at home in buying foreign currency or the airport before leaving, the stress is not worth it once you are here and get blocked. I am a marked man on their algorithm and no one can tell me diddly squat about it.

 

[SG34]

Yep, 100% it's already available now. A lot of people like the face to face because talking to people helps when you're isolated or feeling depressed so will still have a place.

I don't trust any of it. Musk, Thiel and others aren't in government for fun. They'll use it to make it easier to push AI and surveillance on the people. The government agencies being killed off will be replaced by AI.

This is scary AF.
If governmental agencies can scan and profile individuals based on their AI inputs, especially when emotional, subjective stuff applies, when some of us tend to over share , act needy, or reaching, even in the ‘old-world’ with real people, we might be tempted to think AI is a safe place. But here is another thing. Human counselors will also use AI to help them, including divulging information about clients.

So I think we will develop the equivalent of an AI Proxy Provider, a bit like what a VPN pretends it can be, so that when you are dealing with AI, it is not ‘You’ it sees, it is some encrypted proxy. But then again, I suppose, they’ll figure out a way around that too, notwithstanding, said proxy service will make trillions.

 

[StFly]

Being geographically advantaged in the Asian century should be an opportunity but we seem determined to tie ourselves to the past, even when it seems like the US is going isolationist and an unstable partner. It's like turning down the job of a lifetime to move in with your erratic junkie boyfriend.

Don't actually need China.
European steel is 1000% better.
Plastics we can get from anywhere really.
Electrical things are mostly Korean.
We can go around them and sell to others really, China is just already there, willing and able and not openly Russia and in your face "I'll murder you for this" yet, they're using economy booms to trap smaller countries under their view for later instances.

I'm in the boat of the UK, let's do that.

We have uranium - let's nuke up, you point things this way we'll be like France and FAFO, bring your ships and things in radar range to test systems.
Be like the British with Dragonfire, we are integral to space things, we highlighted helping Ukraine with such things, we can beast mode laser weaponry with such precision. Do it.

Instead of umming and aahing with maybe French subs, maybe USA subs, liaise with wider Europe for such things and go that way instead of USA or China to wrap the ocean ways between us and Europe.

 

[gringo2011]

Don't actually need China.
European steel is 1000% better.
Plastics we can get from anywhere really.
Electrical things are mostly Korean.
We can go around them and sell to others really, China is just already there, willing and able and not openly Russia and in your face "I'll murder you for this" yet, they're using economy booms to trap smaller countries under their view for later instances.

I'm in the boat of the UK, let's do that.

We have uranium - let's nuke up, you point things this way we'll be like France and FAFO, bring your ships and things in radar range to test systems.
Be like the British with Dragonfire, we are integral to space things, we highlighted helping Ukraine with such things, we can beast mode laser weaponry with such precision. Do it.

Instead of umming and aahing with maybe French subs, maybe USA subs, liaise with wider Europe for such things and go that way instead of USA or China to wrap the ocean ways between us and Europe.

China are a trading nation. They are more interested in selling you a lot of crap than starting a war. Europe will collapse the EU and NATO soon. They are as stable as the US. I'd rather build ourselveslves through trade. Sell our minerals to China instead of letting the the US and Europe take all our resources for FA.

We have an opportunity to be a very prosperous nation in the coming decades. China is leading the world in tech now and the gap will keep getting bigger. Quality will get better too. Japan was the China of the 1960s, making budget rubbish on a mass scale.

 

[SG34]

I might want to say in relation to AI and ‘free’ counselling, that perhaps our fears may be overblown? I don’t know, but I didn’t want to be part of social media after 2006. A couple of dead Facebook accounts that I never used, no Instagram etc. I completely eschewed social media. I couldn’t trust myself and the Zuckerberg thing- and everyone else. Basically, I have isolated myself and I do wonder, how it has served me to live in my own cave ! Could it be I (we) might do the same with AI? Don’t trust it, don’t use it and misss out? I know it is fashionable to say social media blows and is responsible for depression etc., and for some of us who are a tad impulsive, oversensitive / insensitive it might be a recipe for disaster, yet completely running away from things and isolating oneself in the process is perhaps not the smartest option?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yep, 100% it's already available now. A lot of people like the face to face because talking to people helps when you're isolated or feeling depressed so will still have a place.

I don't trust any of it. Musk, Thiel and others aren't in government for fun. They'll use it to make it easier to push AI and surveillance on the people. The government agencies being killed off will be replaced by AI.

If you want to get rid of government , you'll need artificial unintelligence.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

China are a trading nation. They are more interested in selling you a lot of crap than starting a war. Europe will collapse the EU and NATO soon. They are as stable as the US. I'd rather build ourselveslves through trade. Sell our minerals to China instead of letting the the US and Europe take all our resources for FA.

We have an opportunity to be a very prosperous nation in the coming decades. China is leading the world in tech now and the gap will keep getting bigger. Quality will get better too. Japan was the China of the 1960s, making budget rubbish on a mass scale.

Not getting into Asean was a blow to our trading.

If you are an Asean member, you can sell goods under the trade agreement that can be comprised of ingredients from any Asean countries.
If you have a direct trade agreement , such as Australia -Thailand, only 100% Australian produced stuff is eligible. Makes it a lot harder.

 

[Nutsngum]

This is scary AF.
If governmental agencies can scan and profile individuals based on their AI inputs, especially when emotional, subjective stuff applies, when some of us tend to over share , act needy, or reaching, even in the ‘old-world’ with real people, we might be tempted to think AI is a safe place. But here is another thing. Human counselors will also use AI to help them, including divulging information about clients.

So I think we will develop the equivalent of an AI Proxy Provider, a bit like what a VPN pretends it can be, so that when you are dealing with AI, it is not ‘You’ it sees, it is some encrypted proxy. But then again, I suppose, they’ll figure out a way around that too, notwithstanding, said proxy service will make trillions.

AI looks like it might have a limited life span in most of its current LLM forms just because they are currently leaking massive amounts of money. Its all well and good to stick it in everything but its productive ability is trash and its time saving ability is wishy washy at best.

Im not admitably super highly read up on it all but all these things look like theyre only existing due to continued capital investments as opposed to actual profit margins. Eventually someone is going to turn around and wonder where their returns are.

 

[SG34]

Re AI

I have got to disagree with you respectfully.
So far, I have found it to be absolutely ‘mind-blowingly’ helpful.
Yes, it needs to be tangled with, and will spew forth generalist rubbish that sounds plausible, but some follow-up questions have shown me a glory of riches.

Just ChatGPt in its free mode, among another things has,

Helped me massively in my research. It has offered to design experiments, including philosophical approaches, statistical frameworks, including their pros and cons, formulas, and massively helped in boring house keeping chores.

It has summarized academic papers and allows me to converse with it about weaknesses in these papers and compare them to other papers.

It has helped me create letters of consent for experiments. It has organized the steps and procedures. And it follows up each of these with suggestions and further offers.

In years of quasi-academia where even asking colleagues about stuff is next to useless, or even worse, seen as disingenuous, posturing, competitive, or bla bla..or they simply don’t know, don’t want to know, it has been a massive fresh breathe of air. Had it been around 10-15 years ago, I would have had the confidence to start a PhD. even now, at 61, i am thinking of it.

But that is not my main gig. I am hoping it can help me get my shit to getter a little bit or at least accept that I won’t and plan from there. i have spent thousands on counselors over the last 15 years. I’ve thought I am this or that or this and that so many times, I have been thoroughly disgusted with the whole mental health paradigm, and I suspect it comes across when I talk to one of these counselors.

Artistically, it has also helped me. I think. I hope. As a broken down musician / song writer, it helped me understand why i wasn’t confident about the tone of my lyrics, and it turns out, for good reason.

The one concern i have, is with privacy. But as i have said, most people give it all away to Zuckerberg, so…

 

[gringo2011]

AI looks like it might have a limited life span in most of its current LLM forms just because they are currently leaking massive amounts of money. Its all well and good to stick it in everything but its productive ability is trash and its time saving ability is wishy washy at best.

Im not admitably super highly read up on it all but all these things look like theyre only existing due to continued capital investments as opposed to actual profit margins. Eventually someone is going to turn around and wonder where their returns are.

The speed of improvement is getting insane. It's self learning at the moment. It probably isn't ever going to become truely conscious but it will change everything. Sam Altman is claiming that they are close to the point that 100 years worth of research can be done in weeks. They can round up every piece of research in history and compile it. They think things like cancer cures are just scratching the surface.

China's AI is open source. It's going to be a bizarrely different world than we know now. We won't need actors or any of the creatives, medical staff probably don't even exist any more. Nothing will stay the same. Production will be done by machine even. I don't know what people will do all day. It will be like permanent Covid lockdown.

 

[gringo2011]

Re AI

I have got to disagree with you respectfully.
So far, I have found it to be absolutely ‘mind-blowingly’ helpful.
Yes, it needs to be tangled with, and will spew forth generalist rubbish that sounds plausible, but some follow-up questions have shown me a glory of riches.

Just ChatGPt in its free mode, among another things has,

Helped me massively in my research. It has offered to design experiments, including philosophical approaches, statistical frameworks, including their pros and cons, formulas, and massively helped in boring house keeping chores.

It has summarized academic papers and allows me to converse with it about weaknesses in these papers and compare them to other papers.

It has helped me create letters of consent for experiments. It has organized the steps and procedures. And it follows up each of these with suggestions and further offers.

In years of quasi-academia where even asking colleagues about stuff is next to useless, or even worse, seen as disingenuous, posturing, competitive, or bla bla..or they simply don’t know, don’t want to know, it has been a massive fresh breathe of air. Had it been around 10-15 years ago, I would have had the confidence to start a PhD. even now, at 61, i am thinking of it.

But that is not my main gig. I am hoping it can help me get my shit to getter a little bit or at least accept that I won’t and plan from there. i have spent thousands on counselors over the last 15 years. I’ve thought I am this or that or this and that so many times, I have been thoroughly disgusted with the whole mental health paradigm, and I suspect it comes across when I talk to one of these counselors.

Artistically, it has also helped me. I think. I hope. As a broken down musician / song writer, it helped me understand why i wasn’t confident about the tone of my lyrics, and it turns out, for good reason.

The one concern i have, is with privacy. But as i have said, most people give it all away to Zuckerberg, so…

We have already given over our privacy. They can predict what you'll do next before you can already. Everyone I know uses Chat GBT for work now, most needs to be improved on still but give it a year and they'll not even need that.

With online mental health interventions, I imagine that it will suit some people to be able to talk to something that can't judge or be shit at their job.

The chat bot industry has gone nuts, you can't tell when they aren't human in a lot of cases.

You just have to get to the point where you are cool with who you are. People who can't cope with shit as easily as others are usually just hyper conscious. **** other people. Let them flex around you and demand your space in the world. Most people are too stupid and or selfish to care about anyone else anyway. If we are moving into dystopian times, the stressed, the neurotic and the hyper aware will be the survivors. It's a primitive survival instinct that didn't have a place in peaceful times.

 

[Sully111]

I’ve never used … opened…. Looked at chatgpt or whatever the fk it is

 

[Saint Ray]

I’ve never used … opened…. Looked at chatgpt or whatever the fk it is

Me either and I never intend to.

 

[Nutsngum]

Re AI

I have got to disagree with you respectfully.
So far, I have found it to be absolutely ‘mind-blowingly’ helpful.
Yes, it needs to be tangled with, and will spew forth generalist rubbish that sounds plausible, but some follow-up questions have shown me a glory of riches.

Just ChatGPt in its free mode, among another things has,

Helped me massively in my research. It has offered to design experiments, including philosophical approaches, statistical frameworks, including their pros and cons, formulas, and massively helped in boring house keeping chores.

It has summarized academic papers and allows me to converse with it about weaknesses in these papers and compare them to other papers.

It has helped me create letters of consent for experiments. It has organized the steps and procedures. And it follows up each of these with suggestions and further offers.

In years of quasi-academia where even asking colleagues about stuff is next to useless, or even worse, seen as disingenuous, posturing, competitive, or bla bla..or they simply don’t know, don’t want to know, it has been a massive fresh breathe of air. Had it been around 10-15 years ago, I would have had the confidence to start a PhD. even now, at 61, i am thinking of it.

But that is not my main gig. I am hoping it can help me get my shit to getter a little bit or at least accept that I won’t and plan from there. i have spent thousands on counselors over the last 15 years. I’ve thought I am this or that or this and that so many times, I have been thoroughly disgusted with the whole mental health paradigm, and I suspect it comes across when I talk to one of these counselors.

Artistically, it has also helped me. I think. I hope. As a broken down musician / song writer, it helped me understand why i wasn’t confident about the tone of my lyrics, and it turns out, for good reason.

The one concern i have, is with privacy. But as i have said, most people give it all away to Zuckerberg, so…

Note sure about your specific case but what im referencing is really just the actual money making aspect of it. If it eternally runs at a loss its just not going to survive.

The speed of improvement is getting insane. It's self learning at the moment. It probably isn't ever going to become truely conscious but it will change everything. Sam Altman is claiming that they are close to the point that 100 years worth of research can be done in weeks. They can round up every piece of research in history and compile it. They think things like cancer cures are just scratching the surface.

China's AI is open source. It's going to be a bizarrely different world than we know now. We won't need actors or any of the creatives, medical staff probably don't even exist any more. Nothing will stay the same. Production will be done by machine even. I don't know what people will do all day. It will be like permanent Covid lockdown.

Ill re-iterate that my knowledge is podcast level of expertise in this but Sam Altman/OpenAI has been specifically singled out as basically blowing a ton of smoke up people's asses about their product. Could be wrong but the people discussing this seemed to know their stuff.