Mega Thread The Random Thoughts Thread Part 1

[RussellEbertHandball]

Watson bat - 35 Bowl - 31
Flintoff bat - 31 bowl - 32
Kapil Dev bat - 31 bowl - 29
Botham - bat 33 bowl - 28

Stacks up pretty well against those other champion all-rounders. Too many people expecting Kallas/Sobersesque 50+ bat 30 ball averages when those two are once in a generation cricketers. Australia's tall poppy strikes again.

The averages are ok but the contributions are nowhere as good. He is a batsman who bowls a bit not a strike bowler who bats competently like Dev and Botham.

He is better bat than Flintoff but not as good a bowler.

That's why people want a Sobers or Kallis 45-50 batting average and 30-35 bowling average. That's what they did ie were top order batsmen who bowled a bit. Watson is playing as a no.3 who bowls a bit.

But after 49 tests his figures stack up reasonable well compared to Kallis. The only problem is Kallis took 6 years making his debut at 20 whereas and Watson has taken almost 9 years debuting at 23.5 years old, and Dev (19 yrs) and Botham (22 yrs) took 5 years to play 49 tests. Flintoff (21 yrs) took 7 years. Sobers (17.7 yrs) 11 years but that's because relatively less test were played each year back in 50's and 60's.

At the moment
Watson 49 tests 91 Inns 3,198 Runs 35.93 Ave 4 x 100's 21 x 50's - 67 Wick 2,128 Runs 31.76 Ave 3 x 5W 0 x 10 W S/R = 68.8 balls/W

Botham @ 49 tests 74 Inns 2,497 Runs 35.16 Ave 9 x 100's 8 x 50's - 228 Wick 5,158 Runs Ave 22.62 19 x 5 W 4 x 10 W S/R = 50.9 balls/W

Kapil Dev @ 49 tests 71 Inns 2,016 Runs 31.01 Ave 2x 100's 11 x 50's - 197 Wick 5,776 Runs Ave 29.31 15 x 5 W 1 x 10 W S/R = 55.2 balls/W

Flintoff @49 tests 76 Inns 2,383 Runs 32.64 Ave 4 x 100's 16 x 50's - 130 Wick 4,270 Runs Ave 32.84 1 x 5 W 0 x 10 WS/R = 65.9 balls/W


Kallis @49 tests 79 Inns 2,884 Runs 41.20 Ave 7 x 100's 15 x 50's - 92 Wick 2,486 Runs 27.02 Ave 2 x 5W 0 x 10 W S/R = 67.6 balls/W

Gary Sobers @49 tests 83 Inns 4,248 Runs 57.20 Ave 14 x 100's 13 x 50's - 103 Wick 3,600 Ave 34.95 Ave 3 x 5W 0 x 10 W S/R = 90.2 balls/W

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

The averages are ok but the contributions are nowhere as good. He is a batsman who bowls a bit not a strike bowler who bats competently like Dev and Botham.

He is better bat than Flintoff but not as good a bowler.

That's why people want a Sobers or Kallis 45-50 batting average and 30-35 bowling average. That's what they did ie were top order batsmen who bowled a bit. Watson is playing as a no.3 who bowls a bit.

But after 49 tests his figures stack up reasonable well compared to Kallis. The only problem is Kallis took 6 years making his debut at 20 whereas and Watson has taken almost 9 years debuting at 23.5 years old, and Dev (19 yrs) and Botham (22 yrs) took 5 years to play 49 tests. Flintoff (21 yrs) took 7 years. Sobers (17.7 yrs) 11 years but that's because relatively less test were played each year back in 50's and 60's.

At the moment
Watson 49 tests 91 Inns 3,198 Runs 35.93 Ave 4 x 100's 21 x 50's - 67 Wick 2,128 Runs 31.76 Ave 3 x 5W 0 x 10 W S/R = 68.8 balls/W

Botham @ 49 tests 74 Inns 2,497 Runs 35.16 Ave 9 x 100's 8 x 50's - 228 Wick 5,158 Runs Ave 22.62 19 x 5 W 4 x 10 W S/R = 50.9 balls/W

Kapil Dev @ 49 tests 71 Inns 2,016 Runs 31.01 Ave 2x 100's 11 x 50's - 197 Wick 5,776 Runs Ave 29.31 15 x 5 W 1 x 10 W S/R = 55.2 balls/W

Flintoff @49 tests 76 Inns 2,383 Runs 32.64 Ave 4 x 100's 16 x 50's - 130 Wick 4,270 Runs Ave 32.84 1 x 5 W 0 x 10 WS/R = 65.9 balls/W


Kallis @49 tests 79 Inns 2,884 Runs 41.20 Ave 7 x 100's 15 x 50's - 92 Wick 2,486 Runs 27.02 Ave 2 x 5W 0 x 10 W S/R = 67.6 balls/W

Gary Sobers @49 tests 83 Inns 4,248 Runs 57.20 Ave 14 x 100's 13 x 50's - 103 Wick 3,600 Ave 34.95 Ave 3 x 5W 0 x 10 W S/R = 90.2 balls/W

I knew there was something fishy about those stats too good to be true......


out watson in faulkner

 

[Eddie Dingle]

Watson bat - 35 Bowl - 31
Flintoff bat - 31 bowl - 32
Kapil Dev bat - 31 bowl - 29
Botham - bat 33 bowl - 28

Stacks up pretty well against those other champion all-rounders. Too many people expecting Kallas/Sobersesque 50+ bat 30 ball averages when those two are once in a generation cricketers. Australia's tall poppy strikes again.

None of those blokes batted at 3. Ever. So they averaged about where they should for a number 7. Watson is a bloke that is trying to prove to the world he is a top order batsman and 35 is a shit average for a number 1,2 or 3.

Put him back at 6 or 7 and you have a case.

 

[Chopperdave]

Watsons also been dicked around more than any other player in the past. Batting at 1-3 he averages 40 in over 30 tests. Those stats stack up perfectly fine against a lot of players at that point of their careers. He has never had the chance to get settled in one position either due to injury or by being moved around too much. That makes it tough for any batsman to get some sort of rhythm in their game.

I will say his inability to convert 50's to 100's cost him a lot and I bet if he converted just 2-3 of his 50's into 100's no one would be arguing this.

Its a shame his body hasn't been able to handle a workload like Kallas has been able to acheive because I think he could have been something amazing.

 

[raman]

If you're not watching then bad luck for you. Mind you it is probably the most Sydney -centric TV show I have ever seen. Only one I can think of that could match it is Blue Murder re corrupt NSW coppers of the 1970's and 1980's, which also starred Richard Roxburgh

I'll give you that, Blue Murder was outstanding.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Re all round records, I wrote this on the cricket board 12 months ago when Tony Greig passed away

If you do a Statsguru query search on Cricinfo, and put in batting average 40+, bowling average less than or equal to 35 and wickets taken at least 100, ie a true batting allrounder who has taken a decent amount of wickets ie not a Doug Walters with 49 from 74 tests or Steve Waugh with 92 from 168 tests, you get 3 names - Kallis, Sobers and Greig.

[ Note since then Ravi Ashwin has joined the other three. 18 tests 24 Inns 770 runs @40.12 and 104 Wickets @ 27.47 with 9 x 5 W + 2 x 10 W and a S/R of 56.3 balls/W)

Now that cuts out a lot of great batting all rounders who didn't play a lot of tests say pre 1960 especially guys pre WWII, like Wifred Rohdes (played on wet wickets), George Faulkner from South Africa (didn't play a lot of tests in the first couple of decades of the 20th century) but it highlights where he stood with the batting allrounders of the last 50 years.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...alval3=wickets;template=results;type=allround

Although Jayasuriya with 6,973 runs @40.07 and 98 wickets @34.42 came close but he did play 110 tests compared to Greig's 58.

If you set the criteria at batting ave of 40+, bowling of >= 35, no restrictions on wickets taken, but add must have batted at least 30 times and bowled in at least 30 innings its still a pretty short list of only 10 names.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...innings_bowled;template=results;type=allround

 

[PatientMental]

Port players shouldn't be playing mixed netball...

 

[Eddie Dingle]

Port players shouldn't be playing mixed netball...

Did someone get elbowtitted?

 

[PatientMental]

Did someone get elbowtitted?

No, but they should probably be more concerned with making the first 22 than pissing around at indoor netball.

 

[Noobz0r]

No, but they should probably be more concerned with making the first 22 than pissing around at indoor netball.

I'm more concerned with the chances of one of them injurying themselves, netball is atrocious on knees and ankles. The whole point of mixed netball is socialising and having a bit of fun, which is fine.

Who are the players?

 

[PatientMental]

Wont say. But one is my buddy, the other is a very poorly received young player

 

[Schulzenfest]

No, but they should probably be more concerned with making the first 22 than pissing around at indoor netball.

What, they can't spend an hour of their life doing something that isn't focusing on making the first 22? They're not robots. And better to have them playing a social sport in their spare time than getting out on the piss.

Although if it's a Robbie Gray type who's prone to knee/ankle injuries, that might be a different story.

 

[It Just Is]

I'd have thought that's a great thing for the boys to be doing in their spare time.

 

[PatientMental]

I'd have thought that's a great thing for the boys to be doing in their spare time.

If it was at all competitive for them, sure. They won 40 something to 4.

 

[Dylan8]

Yes it may surprise people to learn that football players do in fact do things other than play football.

 

[PatientMental]

My only problem with that story is that I feel sorry for the poor bastards who have to play against them (I'm guessing PatientMental is one of those poor bastards).

I was not, I was watching it waiting for my game. The team they beat usually beats everyone else by that score... They have a guy thats probably close to 200cm, he was getting torched.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Watsons also been dicked around more than any other player in the past. Batting at 1-3 he averages 40 in over 30 tests. Those stats stack up perfectly fine against a lot of players at that point of their careers. He has never had the chance to get settled in one position either due to injury or by being moved around too much. That makes it tough for any batsman to get some sort of rhythm in their game.

I will say his inability to convert 50's to 100's cost him a lot and I bet if he converted just 2-3 of his 50's into 100's no one would be arguing this.

Its a shame his body hasn't been able to handle a workload like Kallas has been able to acheive because I think he could have been something amazing.

I don't think he has been dicked around that much. His first 13 innings were at 6 and 7 when he was selected as an allrounder.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=1;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

Since then he has batted another 78 times in test matches. 67 of those 78 at bats he has batted at 1, 2 or 3. It's just not converting the converting to 100's. The fact he has made 4 x 90's and 3 x 80's and say he hasn't converted 4 of those into 100's that bothers me. Slater made 9 x 90's but that's no big deal as that is still a good innings. It's all those 20's - 50's where he is cruising and then gets out to lazy shots that a #1-3 shouldn't get out to that is annoying. Also everytime he took that big stride in England got hit on the pad, appealed that he wasn't out and so many replays maybe 4 said he was plumb LBW.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8180.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

Yes him breaking down so often hasn't helped him. As I said in my initial comments I think Watson like Mark Waugh has produced the goods at ODI's and Watson at T20 cricket. But both have under achieved at Test level based on the amount of natural talent they have.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

Wont say. But one is my buddy, the other is a very poorly received young player

Must be Jake Neade.

He has been poorly received since 12.30pm today...

 

[Powerstufff]

I'd have thought that's a great thing for the boys to be doing in their spare time.

Not quite a segue but not quite irrelevantly either does anyone remember Choco stopping the boys playing social cricket back around 2005 or so?

 

[Andre]

What, they can't spend an hour of their life doing something that isn't focusing on making the first 22? They're not robots. And better to have them playing a social sport in their spare time than getting out on the piss.

Port players engaging in activity where potential to meet active SA girls. More likely to stay in SA now and good genes for father-sons down the track. This is a bad thing why again?

 

[Dylan8]

Port players engaging in activity where potential to meet active SA girls. More likely to stay in SA now and good genes for father-sons down the track. This is a bad thing why again?

Looking a bit far into a bit of mixed netball

 

[Powerstufff]

Port players engaging in activity where potential to meet active SA girls ...

My one season of mixed netball was in a year where 'Band on the Run' had just been released and we were all gathering at pre-agreed houses to watch 'I Claudius'. But based on that experience no unattached heterosexual male joins mixed netball other than that he is already attached and his girlfriend ropes him in.

 

[Trewth]

I still don't get netball, it's basketball without the skills. It's for people who like boredom and can't dribble.

Yes, I'm being deliberately ignorant. What of it?

 

[Andre]

I still don't get netball, it's basketball without the skills. It's for people who like boredom and can't dribble.

Yes, I'm being deliberately ignorant. What of it?

Well the players dating women basketballers is risky.

 

[Dylan8]

That Lyon ball ha ha these cracks are ridiculous.