Mega Thread The Random Thoughts Thread Part 1

[raman]

The Martin Place guy was not an islamist
The Martin Place guy was not an islamist
The Martin Place guy was not an islamist

I think you would be an interesting guy to have a discussion with if you weren't quite so committed to being disingenuous.

 

[charcolechaddy]

at the end of the day if the Muslims don't rat out this minority of frkwits they will back themselves into a corner that will be hard to escape.

 

[raman]

at the end of the day if the Muslims don't rat out this minority of frkwits they will back themselves into a corner that will be hard to escape.

No sign of that happening. I am yet to see a condemnation of this incident from a moderate Muslim which comes without qualification.

 

[Harlott]

Unfortunately it is going to be the right who actually fight back in Western Europe, while the left sits around with its thumb up its arse pontificating about tolerance.

Hasn't the right been fighting back since 9/11?

 

[Doctor Feel]

Hasn't the right been fighting back since 9/11?

Pretty sure that was the entire world at the time, not just the right.

 

[Dalphonso]

Top ... Todd river in Alice flows today.
Bottom ... Dimantina in Birdsville today...maybe Lake Eyre will flood again?
View attachment 101730 View attachment 101731

Big flow in the Todd last night.One 24 year old riding on a tyre tube went missing.Found his body Today.

 

[chiwigi]

I think you would be an interesting guy to have a discussion with if you weren't quite so committed to being disingenuous.

Having worked, lived and studied in Muslim countries, having studied the Quran and Bible. Having worked in many a war zone, I think I speak from a pretty educated viewpoint. Not agreeing to the tabloid idea of Islam and the pathetic tabloid definition of a terrorist does not make me disingenous.

 

[chiwigi]

No sign of that happening. I am yet to see a condemnation of this incident from a moderate Muslim which comes without qualification.

Now who's being disingenous? There is a whole ****ing Twitter campaign, sure the advertiser will never cover it, but that's because people don't want to read about moderation.
Get some balance I to your reading, if you like the spectator, then read the new statesman. If you love Jesus, then read Hitchens etc.
Like Fox News? Try Al Jazeera.

 

[raman]

Having worked, lived and studied in Muslim countries, having studied the Quran and Bible. Having worked in many a war zone, I think I speak from a pretty educated viewpoint. Not agreeing to the tabloid idea of Islam and the pathetic tabloid definition of a terrorist does not make me disingenous.

That's why I said I think you'd be an interesting guy to talk to, and I'm equally disinterested in tabloid concepts of, well, anything really.

But to say that old mate Martin Place is not an Islamist is an absurdity.

 

[chiwigi]

He was not, he was a crook. Did he use people to help him...wherever he could. He followed no tenets of Islam, he was a gangster.

 

[raman]

Now who's being disingenous? There is a whole ******* Twitter campaign, sure the advertiser will never cover it, but that's because people don't want to read about moderation.

Show me unqualified condemnation from high profile clerics and scholars.

I'm not saying it isn't out there, just that I haven't seen it.

Get some balance I to your reading, if you like the spectator, then read the new statesman. If you love Jesus, then read Hitchens etc.
Like Fox News? Try Al Jazeera.

LOL you're jumping to a weird conclusion about who I am.

 

[chiwigi]

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...ganiser-warns-of-danger-of-political-rhetoric

This campaign was going for a good while before the recent crap.

 

[raman]

He was not, he was a crook. Did he use people to help him...wherever he could. He followed no tenets of Islam, he was a gangster.

I'm sure that's news to him.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Show me unqualified condemnation from high profile clerics and scholars.

I'm not saying it isn't out there, just that I haven't seen it.



LOL you're jumping to a weird conclusion about who I am.

Chiwigi hutz in full effect ...i love it

 

[chiwigi]

Show me unqualified condemnation from high profile clerics and scholars.

I'm not saying it isn't out there, just that I haven't seen it.



LOL you're jumping to a weird conclusion about who I am.

Of course, I am making assumptions based on the arguments you are presenting. I undertsnad this forum is not a great spot to debate this type of thing and I apologise for a mistaken assumption but can only base it on the information provided.

 

[chiwigi]

Chiwigi hutz in full effect ...i love it

Yup, after I asked for the asylum seeker, he asks for the cleric.

A ten second Google search brought this site up....lots of links
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Yup, after I asked for the asylum seeker, he asks for the cleric.

A ten second Google search brought this site up....lots of links
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

You are pushing s*** up hill here mate

Ppl on here get pissed off for americanisms....so many patriots

 

[chiwigi]

I'm sure that's news to him.

As he was Iranian he was likely Shia.
Look through this list and you will see his everyday actions...let alone his final act, went against most of these.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancillaries_of_the_Faith

 

[raman]

Yup, after I asked for the asylum seeker, he asks for the cleric.

A ten second Google search brought this site up....lots of links
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

What, you couldn't find a Geocities site from the mid 90s?

I'm looking for a statement about the recent incident. In France. And I'm looking for a prominent Muslim cleric/scholar/journalist/whatever who directly states that the depiction of the Prophet in any context whatsoever is not an offence deserving of any punishment, either under law or at the hands of barbarians.

 

[chiwigi]

What, you couldn't find a Geocities site from the mid 90s?

I'm looking for a statement about the recent incident. In France. And I'm looking for a prominent Muslim cleric/scholar/journalist/whatever who directly states that the depiction of the Prophet in any context whatsoever is not an offence deserving of any punishment, either under law or at the hands of barbarians.

Hahah you keep changing your request. Why would you want that? What has that got to do with terrorism? Their belief that something should not be legal does not make them a terrorist.
Blasphemy is still a crime in the UK.
In Germany its punishable by law to display the swastika or deny the holocaust ( I'm not invoking Godwins law its a legitimate analogy).
In Thailand you get locked up for not standing for the national anthem before a movie.
In Australia you go to jail for growing smoke able herbs.
Most countries imprison people if they don't pay speeding fines.
In some US States its legal to marry at 14 but you can't have sex until 16.
There are plenty of absurd laws. Why would one preventing the desecration of the image of their prophet be any more absurd to a committed Muslim? It's a straw man, a red herring, a furphy. Terrorists are terrorists because of a greater geo political issue. Not because they believe in a certain book or God.
Are there no laws that you wished existed or could be changed?

Australia itself is legally a theocratic monarchist state. Egypt, Iraq and Saudi Arabia aren't.

 

[Port81]

Haha what a load of shit

 

[chiwigi]

Haha what a load of shit

Succinct.

 

[raman]

Hahah you keep changing your request.

I changed nothing. I expanded upon what I meant when I said "unqualified" once I realised you weren't going to be able to work from my implication alone.

Why would you want that?

Because any condemnation that makes that omission is meaningless, gutless lip service.

What has that got to do with terrorism? Their belief that something should not be legal does not make them a terrorist.

I am genuinely disinterested in what you think qualifies as terrorism. What I am interested in is the ways in which the vile concept of blasphemy fosters an environment/culture/tradition which impinges upon free speech (among other perks of civil society I happen to enjoy) with tragic and violent consequences. It's this sense in which I hold that Islamic "moderates" as well as their gutless defenders on the Western left continue to be passively culpable for the actions of extremists.

Blasphemy is still a crime in the UK.
In Germany its punishable by law to display the swastika or deny the holocaust ( I'm not invoking Godwins law its a legitimate analogy).
In Thailand you get locked up for not standing for the national anthem before a movie.
In Australia you go to jail for growing smoke able herbs.
Most countries imprison people if they don't pay speeding fines.
In some US States its legal to marry at 14 but you can't have sex until 16.

I am aware of all of that, except the Thailand one.

I am not aware of your point.

There are plenty of absurd laws. Why would one preventing the desecration of the image of their prophet be any more absurd to a committed Muslim? It's a straw man, a red herring, a furphy. Terrorists are terrorists because of a greater geo political issue. Not because they believe in a certain book or God.

What's the greater geopolitical issue? The big bad US? Fox News? Dark wizards?

 

[chiwigi]

The point is that wanting something to be illegal (or legal) is a major part of all systems. Not wanting the image of Mohammed disrespected is no different to wanting (or not) the carbon tax. It does not make somebody a terrorist and they should not be made to renounce that because of the actions of idiots. It will not stop the terrorism as they'll just use another premise.
Blasphemy is a crime in the UK (or was until fairly recently) the Queen is the head of the church and it is therefore on par with traitorism...do you see many Anglican extremists? No because the idea of blasphemy is not the problem.

Really? You are asking if there are geo political issues outside of religion? Seriously?

Edit: blasphemy was repealed in 2006, replaced by a law that prevents attacks on all beliefs.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_the_United_Kingdom


Anyway, let's call it a day. I'm out.

 

[raman]

The point is that wanting something to be illegal (or legal) is a major part of all systems. Not wanting the image of Mohammed disrespected is no different to wanting (or not) the carbon tax. It does not make somebody a terrorist and they should not be made to renounce that because of the actions of idiots. It will not stop the terrorism as they'll just use another premise.

I'll take that as a no.

Blasphemy is a crime in the UK (or was until fairly recently) the Queen is the head of the church and it is therefore on par with traitorism...do you see many Anglican extremists? No because the idea of blasphemy is not the problem.

No, because Christianity has for the most part put on its big boy pants and joined the modern world; something Islam is yet to do.

Really? You are asking if there are get political issues outside of religion? Seriously?

I'm at the very least asking which one you consider to be more important than literally billions of people believing in stupid bullshit about the nature of reality and expecting those beliefs to be relevant to public policy, yes.