Strategy The Ratugolea Conundrum

[PhatBoy]

Imagine how many goals he would cough up due to basic skill errors. Just look what happened when he totally shanked 2 handballs against the eagles. 2 goals, and that was in the centre of the ground.

Just doesn't have the reliable skills to be played in the defensive 50.

He doesn't have to. Yes I recognise the irony of citing someone who literally did EXACTLY what you're talking about in the Adelaide game. But someone like Jack Henry, he's there literally to hold an opposition forward accountable, and get rid of the ball 8-9 times a game. The majority of that time he's clearing the ball long where distance matters much more than whether you're hitting a teammate or not. Yes if you're Tom Stewart or Zac Tuohy, you're a primary ball-user as far as defenders go. They can't afford to have poor skills. if you're a one on one defender and your role is centred around defence only, rather than any notion of rebounding or facilitating attack, then it doesn't ask much of your finer skills.

 

[cats_09]

Its a real opportunity if we have a second key forward. Our forward line functioned terribly on friday without him despite footscray being down two key defenders for most of the night.

How do you think our forward line functioned in our previous game against the Crows? That was our lowest score since our loss to the Eagles, and moving into the Qld hub

What about the 3 matches prior to that where we put on scores of 90 against North, 93 against Saints & 91 against Port - our 2nd, 3rd & 4th highest scores across the season?

When we look at our past 5 matches - when would you say our forward line functioned at its best?

 

[Down at K Park]

He doesn't have to. Yes I recognise the irony of citing someone who literally did EXACTLY what you're talking about in the Adelaide game. But someone like Jack Henry, he's there literally to hold an opposition forward accountable, and get rid of the ball 8-9 times a game. The majority of that time he's clearing the ball long where distance matters much more than whether you're hitting a teammate or not. Yes if you're Tom Stewart or Zac Tuohy, you're a primary ball-user as far as defenders go. They can't afford to have poor skills. if you're a one on one defender and your role is centred around defence only, rather than any notion of rebounding or facilitating attack, then it doesn't ask much of your finer skills.

Well being a defender won't work out to well, when your handball misses your team mate by 5 metres and ends up going directly to an opponent. He can't kick it every time he gets it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Well being a defender won't work out to well, when your handball misses your team mate by 5 metres and ends up going directly to an opponent. He can't kick it every time he gets it.

You've cited examples from when he's in the middle of the ground with half the playing group of both sides within spitting distance and moving traffic going both ways. Having a teammate standing stationary behind you to give you a bail-out option isn't exactly a like for like situation is it.

 

[dazbroncos]

Can I suggest something that may get laughed at:

is there a reason Esava couldn’t ever be Considered to have a go in defence?

he’s tall.
He has a great leap.
He actually reads the flight of the ball fairly well and gets to where it’s going, he just consistently drops it.
he’s strong.
He’s fast enough for his size.
if he can’t make a go of being a forward what’s to stop him being tried as a defender where at the very least they can just say ‘stick with this guy and spoil everything.’

Posted this very idea about a month ago..

The premise bring he’d be lead to the ball and could react rather than be proactive.
Not for all of time I might add - just a chink to get his confidence up a bit .. and some touch

Go Catters

 

[PhatBoy]

Posted this very idea about a month ago..

The premise bring he’d be lead to the ball and could react rather than be proactive.
Not for all of time I might add - just a chink to get his confidence up a bit .. and some touch

Go Catters

This. I'm not for a moment suggesting that good defenders are not as skillful or important as good mids or forwards - the best ones like Scarlett etc not only nullify their opposition but have disposal and vision as good as anyone else on the field.

But to me defence is the easiest role on the field to get to a passable level.
At very worst, a coach can say 'just stick to this bloke like glue and don't leave his side.'
When I first played soccer - a sport I hate with a passion - I had no idea what was going to happen, it was Z grade local stuff but they said 'where do you want to play' and I just said 'at the back - I will pick someone and just annoy them all day' and that's what I did. Yes it's a different game and obviously about 604757569 levels below AFL football but the principal is the same.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Pretty simple equation for mine - Richmond are the best team ( are now flag favourites in the betting ) - you have to beat Richmond to win this years Premiership - and Tigers side does include Noah Bolta at CHB and Lynch at FF - both about 6ft 5inc

Bolta is in fantastic form - SAV is the ideal match up for him at CHF - otherwise Bolta is going to have an absolute picnic at CHB - and give the Tigers tremendous run off CHB

Blicavs with his extra height goes back to FB on Lynch - that means Henderson gets squeezed out . Henderson has been going ok - but Naughton outmarked him in that 1st qtr ( beat him pointless ) that was pretty concerning i thought .

Anyone would have been beaten with the delivery the bulldogs had in Q1.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Posted this very idea about a month ago..

The premise bring he’d be lead to the ball and could react rather than be proactive.
Not for all of time I might add - just a chink to get his confidence up a bit .. and some touch

Go Catters

I like the idea but it's too late in the year to risk unsettling our defence and flag tilt. I'd do it next year.

 

[PhatBoy]

I like the idea but it's too late in the year to risk unsettling our defence and flag tilt. I'd do it next year.

Agreed there too, I wouldn't be touching our defence but obviously Henderson and Taylor won't be around much longer. Zac Guthrie is an obvious one they have been grooming to go in there permanently but yeah it's not like they couldn't give it a go especially if things get back to normal next year and there's a VFL for them to experiment in.

 

[JohnZ]

He's got "it", but "it" isn't ready yet. Playing him in the 1s ala Jack Watts isn't going to help him, especially when our current structure doesn't exactly require him to play (we're not playing a 2nd tall forward, we're playing rowan as a half tall/half medium forward).

I would tell him now, that he's playing scratch matches for the rest of the year. He needs to work on getting sticky fingers and shots on goal. That's it.

 

[frggr]

Can I suggest something that may get laughed at:

is there a reason Esava couldn’t ever be Considered to have a go in defence?

he’s tall.
He has a great leap.
He actually reads the flight of the ball fairly well and gets to where it’s going, he just consistently drops it.
he’s strong.
He’s fast enough for his size.
if he can’t make a go of being a forward what’s to stop him being tried as a defender where at the very least they can just say ‘stick with this guy and spoil everything.’

That's a great idea - who goes out for him though? Lolo? One of Hendo/Taylor?

 

[PhatBoy]

That's a great idea - who goes out for him though? Lolo? One of Hendo/Taylor?

if it was next year - particularly if we got the big prize this year - Id be inclined to let Henderson go.

seriously Blicavs has been converted into a defender based on his height and his athleticism - his skills aren’t great (they’re better than Savs admittedly) and he’s made a great go of it.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Agreed there too, I wouldn't be touching our defence but obviously Henderson and Taylor won't be around much longer. Zac Guthrie is an obvious one they have been grooming to go in there permanently but yeah it's not like they couldn't give it a go especially if things get back to normal next year and there's a VFL for them to experiment in.

I agree once there's seconds footy next year I'd try him there in defence or ruck if he hasn't come on as a forward by then.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

if it was next year - particularly if we got the big prize this year - Id be inclined to let Henderson go.

seriously Blicavs has been converted into a defender based on his height and his athleticism - his skills aren’t great (they’re better than Savs admittedly) and he’s made a great go of it.

Taylor and Hendo might both retire if we win the flag anyway.

 

[PhatBoy]

Taylor and Hendo might both retire if we win the flag anyway.

Think the same.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

He's badly out of form and lacks confidence at the moment, the very worst thing you could do is continue to gift him games in the seniors when he's provided no reason to and allow him to continue to stink it up and be a net loss to his team.
Sure, we need a second tall for finals, I agree with that, but the 2020 Esava is a hindrance to our chances.
Those calling for his inclusion would likely blame all and sundry if he stunk up a game and directly led to opposition goals from basic skill turn overs and lost the game (ala the Eagles game).
He needs time, and he needs games in the VFL as he's simply a liability right now in the AFL.

 

[you pick one]

He's badly out of form and lacks confidence at the moment, the very worst thing you could do is continue to gift him games in the seniors when he's provided no reason to and allow him to continue to stink it up and be a net loss to his team.
Sure, we need a second tall for finals, I agree with that, but the 2020 Esava is a hindrance to our chances.
Those calling for his inclusion would likely blame all and sundry if he stunk up a game and directly led to opposition goals from basic skill turn overs and lost the game (ala the Eagles game).
He needs time, and he needs games in the VFL as he's simply a liability right now in the AFL.

He need to master the skills of the game,he possesses natural talent and athleticism that's a good start but it won't take him to where he need to get to be best dozen at least.

 

[Down at K Park]

You've cited examples from when he's in the middle of the ground with half the playing group of both sides within spitting distance and moving traffic going both ways. Having a teammate standing stationary behind you to give you a bail-out option isn't exactly a like for like situation is it.

So that will happen every single time? Yeah nah. Silly comment.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

Imagine how many goals he would cough up due to basic skill errors. Just look what happened when he totally shanked 2 handballs against the eagles. 2 goals, and that was in the centre of the ground.

Just doesn't have the reliable skills to be played in the defensive 50.

To be fair, he has already shown he has some defensive skills - remember the certain goal from Hawkins he stopped by punching it back into play against Carlton? We lost that game by 2 points, so we'd be singing his praises if it was up the other end

 

[PhatBoy]

So that will happen every single time? Yeah nah. Silly comment.

And will he miss a target and cost us a goal every single time? You've cited two examples from a completely different scenario to what he will be facing in defence. If you're going to cling onto those as if it is going to happen all the time, then how did he even get to AFL list status in the first place - it's not like he's handballed it to the opposition every single time he's done it.

And as for citing those skill errors as being particularly costly because they turn into opposition goals - well that happens a dozen times a game when forwards who's job it is to kick the ball through a five metre wide target manage to not do it. The question is being asked as to what the best method to deal with him is, and it has been suggested that in time he be tried in defence. If you're going to wipe that as a possibility just because he's made a few mistakes in a totally different scenario well really what is any player doing on an AFL list.

 

[AM]

He hasn't been the same since that terrible leg injury. Still lacks confidence. But he's well worth persevering with. Agile big blokes who can take a grab don't grow on trees.

 

[Down at K Park]

And will he miss a target and cost us a goal every single time? You've cited two examples from a completely different scenario to what he will be facing in defence. If you're going to cling onto those as if it is going to happen all the time, then how did he even get to AFL list status in the first place - it's not like he's handballed it to the opposition every single time he's done it.

And as for citing those skill errors as being particularly costly because they turn into opposition goals - well that happens a dozen times a game when forwards who's job it is to kick the ball through a five metre wide target manage to not do it. The question is being asked as to what the best method to deal with him is, and it has been suggested that in time he be tried in defence. If you're going to wipe that as a possibility just because he's made a few mistakes in a totally different scenario well really what is any player doing on an AFL list.

No, but he really needs to clean up those basic skill errors.

 

[PhatBoy]

No, but he really needs to clean up those basic skill errors.

of course he does, I cringe at them as much as anyone, but the part of the ground that requires the least skill in relation to simple positioning and endeavour is at the back.

 

[Ratcat]

I don't think he's best 22 at the minute but there may still be a structural argument for a second tall forward. Maybe you give him another run against Essendon but I think you definitely go small against Richmond just to see how it looks. 1) does it look like Blicavs is needed back against Lynch and Reiwoldt and 2) is our forward line functional against a team with good key defenders and that puts pressure on up the field (ie no silver service). Two big questions, could be that we do want Blicavs back and another target against the Tigers and Eagles in particular. In which case we might have to play him even if he's not in our best 22 per se. Can still give him a run against Sydney in that case.
Jenkins is a non-starter for me, our forward line will be too slow with him in the side.

Jenkins would run down all of our small forwards mate, you have to be joking if you're talking pace.
And if Tom misfires or is double teamed and umpired out of the game, whatcha gonna do???
The Harry to the forwardline party trick, guess what, it doesn't work and would destroy the backline.
I can see it again Geelong walking into a beartrap.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Just a question to posters who aernt keen to have him in the team this year

When Geel play Rich in 2 weeks time - who do they select to play CHF for the Cats in that game