Strategy The Ratugolea Conundrum

[Generalissimo]

Jenkins would run down all of our small forwards mate, you have to be joking if you're talking pace.

You think he'd catch Dahlhaus? Or Gary Rohan? Come on mate.

Anyway, I was chatting with a mate of mine the other day and I reckon we worked out what might be up with Ratugolea. He seems to be one of these guys who realises the pace of the game is much more intense than the lower levels, but hasn't quite adjusted to the fact that midfielders' kicks inside 50 have a lot more on them too.

The result is that he crowds Hawkins inside forward 50, absolutely busts a gut to lead, only to watch the ball sail over his head because he's led under it. Midfielders could afford to lower their eyes and take a bit off the kick for him, but that's effectively like choosing an Esava set shot from 50 over a Hawkins one from 35.

His set shot kicking is also erratic, to put it charitably. And with Blitz and Stanley we've already got all the mobile roving ruckmen we need.

 

[Nickoo]

Pretty simple equation for mine - Richmond are the best team ( are now flag favourites in the betting ) - you have to beat Richmond to win this years Premiership - and Tigers side does include Noah Bolta at CHB and Lynch at FF - both about 6ft 5inc

Bolta is in fantastic form - SAV is the ideal match up for him at CHF - otherwise Bolta is going to have an absolute picnic at CHB - and give the Tigers tremendous run off CHB

Blicavs with his extra height goes back to FB on Lynch - that means Henderson gets squeezed out . Henderson has been going ok - but Naughton outmarked him in that 1st qtr ( beat him pointless ) that was pretty concerning i thought .

I thought Hendo had an average night so my worries about him have not gone away despite better recent performances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[you pick one]

Pretty simple equation for mine - Richmond are the best team ( are now flag favourites in the betting ) - you have to beat Richmond to win this years Premiership - and Tigers side does include Noah Bolta at CHB and Lynch at FF - both about 6ft 5inc

Bolta is in fantastic form - SAV is the ideal match up for him at CHF - otherwise Bolta is going to have an absolute picnic at CHB - and give the Tigers tremendous run off CHB

Blicavs with his extra height goes back to FB on Lynch - that means Henderson gets squeezed out . Henderson has been going ok - but Naughton outmarked him in that 1st qtr ( beat him pointless ) that was pretty concerning i thought .

There would be a few more that would likely influence the make up of my side before Bolta.

 

[Turbocat]

He's got "it", but "it" isn't ready yet. Playing him in the 1s ala Jack Watts isn't going to help him, especially when our current structure doesn't exactly require him to play (we're not playing a 2nd tall forward, we're playing rowan as a half tall/half medium forward).

I would tell him now, that he's playing scratch matches for the rest of the year. He needs to work on getting sticky fingers and shots on goal. That's it.

I think I said last year.. they need to employe a specialist to embed a kicking technique. Get SJ back or some other specialist.. Id be happy to see him spend a summer just kicking the ball and tell fitness experts to rack off. ...because yes he may have 'it' ... but for the time being its about getting rid of "sh"

 

[xtatik222k]

Yes if there’s one thing I’ve learned from Hawkins’ one suspension in 11 finals campaigns it’s that he’ll get himself suspended come finals time

I think I'm just on edge because it feels like for the past ten years, something has always cropped up at finals time and derailed our campaign one way or another. I just want a crack at a grand final unhindered by injuries or stupid last minute curve-ball coaching decisions.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Just a question to posters who aernt keen to have him in the team this year

When Geel play Rich in 2 weeks time - who do they select to play CHF for the Cats in that game

Rohan or Jenkins.

 

[Catsace]

I agree. Go out with a bang, bust up a few opponents, get the Coleman, GF and then retire.

Festival Hall could have been a dual Premiership player for the Swans if only he delivered his pent up Staker hit a couple of years earlier onto the jaw of a Judd, Kerr or Cousins. But he was rather meek and fairly nondescript in that '06 GF where they lost by a point. But does going out with a bang and an extra Flag make up for a potential loss of respect? Interesting conundrum i s'pose.

 

[Generalissimo]

I just want a crack at a grand final unhindered by injuries or stupid last minute curve-ball coaching decisions.

...and stupid brain fades that result in suspensions.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Barrett has just published an interesting article on AFL.com.au:

BARRETT: Cats' big riddle, North's future enters disaster zone

Geelong's hot form, depth of talent and the dominance of Tom Hawkins means another big Cat is set to watch on this year

www.afl.com.au

This adds to comments made by Terry Wallace, and observations by several people on this board, that we might be better off without him currently.

Why Geelong’s forward line functions better without big man

"I don’t think he’s in their best side at the moment."

www.sen.com.au

Obviously we can all see the potential in him, and it's crucial that in order for him to realise that potential, he must play. But it would seem to me that his presence in the forward line is a detriment, and he lacks the potency and skill to handle the ball in the middle when rucking, as evinced by the West Coast game, when on several occasions he clumsily turned the ball over in the middle of the ground, which comes at a dearer cost than if he had done so inside 50, and may have cost us the game.

So, what do we do? Do we give him one more chance this year and go for the flag? What about next year - we will presumably be in premiership contention still, and he will be 23 in July, too old to not be playing.

I don’t see it too much of a conundrum or even a conundrum at all imo.

he plays if he is good enough or he stays in the VFL. If his form doesn’t warrant AFL games in his fifth season on the list and roughly 40 games so far than he probably isn’t up to it.

no need or haste to delist him and probably should be given next year and the year after... but he could honestly go either way at this point and is no N Ablett or Hawkins Talent wise.

 

[Ricketz]

This. I'm not for a moment suggesting that good defenders are not as skillful or important as good mids or forwards - the best ones like Scarlett etc not only nullify their opposition but have disposal and vision as good as anyone else on the field.

But to me defence is the easiest role on the field to get to a passable level.
At very worst, a coach can say 'just stick to this bloke like glue and don't leave his side.'
When I first played soccer - a sport I hate with a passion - I had no idea what was going to happen, it was Z grade local stuff but they said 'where do you want to play' and I just said 'at the back - I will pick someone and just annoy them all day' and that's what I did. Yes it's a different game and obviously about 604757569 levels below AFL football but the principal is the same.

He showed good promise this year...



Seriously though, he is our next ruck going off Scotty's talk. I'd rather he focus on his attacking game rather than shoehorn him into defence. If it means he doesn't play finals, so be it - he won't be the only young bloke to miss out.

 

[Ricketz]

I don’t see it too much of a conundrum or even a conundrum at all imo.

he plays if he is good enough or he stays in the VFL. If his form doesn’t warrant AFL games in his fifth season on the list and roughly 40 games so far than he probably isn’t up to it.

no need or haste to delist him and probably should be given next year and the year after... but he could honestly go either way at this point and is no N Ablett or Hawkins Talent wise.

Sheesh. Glad you are not our list manager GC.

He was being talked up across the league before he was injured this year. On one game back we are talking trading him? Really?

It's probably worth mentioning that he pretty much played zero in 2018 after snapping his leg bones.

I suppose you shouldn't criticise someone for having high standards, but if it means we give a well regarded, developing talent to another team when we have no proven replacement, somebody needs to step in.

 

[My Tilly]

Yeah and if he played Esava in a must win game and he puts in a howler the anti Scott brigade would be unanimous in saying ‘what the hell did we recruit a proven second forward in Jenkins for if we were just going to play that spud instead.’

You now know my views on where the club is heading and what not. It's probably a strange one but it's just my opinion that we are not going to do any damage whatsoever in September as we aren't a legitimate threat to the likes of Collingwood, Richmond, West Coast or even GWS if they sneak in. I feel like we have nothing to lose by allowing Ratugolea to experience what Blicavs experienced when he first began, just keep playing him no matter what. At some point in time, he will turn the corner.
If we do head down the road of playing Josh Jenkins, it cripples the club and it's long-term goals of competing again for another premiership (5-7 years time) as Jenkins will give you 4 marks and a goal or 2 per game but we will bow out of finals and are stuck with playing a 32 yr old over the youth just as we have done with many of these mature aged recruits who have failed in bringing the club a flag.

 

[PhatBoy]

You now know my views on where the club is heading and what not. It's probably a strange one but it's just my opinion that we are not going to do any damage whatsoever in September as we aren't a legitimate threat to the likes of Collingwood, Richmond, West Coast or even GWS if they sneak in. I feel like we have nothing to lose by allowing Ratugolea to experience what Blicavs experienced when he first began, just keep playing him no matter what. At some point in time, he will turn the corner.
If we do head down the road of playing Josh Jenkins, it cripples the club and it's long-term goals of competing again for another premiership (5-7 years time) as Jenkins will give you 4 marks and a goal or 2 per game but we will bow out of finals and are stuck with playing a 32 yr old over the youth just as we have done with many of these mature aged recruits who have failed in bringing the club a flag.

Lotto numbers plz

 

[iameviljez]

This talk of Jenkins is plainly silly IMO - he's been bought as insurance, let's use him just as insurance if Stanley or Hawkins breaks.

The real question is whether we play both Ratugolea and Hawkins, or just Hawkins. Given that we are in a year where 4th is just as good as 1st, I don't think that any of our H&A games are must-wins - so I would play Ratugolea in every game up until finals to get some confidence and come good.

The person who seems to play far better in Ratugolea's absence isn't Hawkins IMO, it's Gary Rohan. No more does he have to get out of the big man's way - it's just see ball, get ball.

 

[My Tilly]

Lotto numbers plz

Just going by what we have seen last year, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2014. Nothing has changed this year. Even in our last two matches played, we have looked very inconsistent and beginning to show signs of plateauing like we have done in seasons previously.

Ratugolea needs to play as key forward and stay down that end of the ground. If he has to ruck, he can't keep up as he has not yet got the tank to do so.

 

[My Tilly]

it's Gary Rohan. No more does he have to get out of the big man's way - it's just see ball, get ball.

In finals though, you need the big bodies. We saw what Ratugolea + Hawkins did against West Coast.
Rohan would struggle as the game draws on if he had to play at the key post.

 

[iameviljez]

In finals though, you need the big bodies. We saw what Ratugolea + Hawkins did against West Coast.
Rohan would struggle as the game draws on if he had to play at the key post.

I disagree, teams are more than capable of winning big games with one big and one medium forward. 2011 GF is the best example of that I can think of - one of the key turning points was losing J-Pod and pushing Bartel forward.

 

[PhatBoy]

Just going by what we have seen last year, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2014. Nothing has changed this year. Even in our last two matches played, we have looked very inconsistent and beginning to show signs of plateauing like we have done in seasons previously.

Ratugolea needs to play as key forward and stay down that end of the ground. If he has to ruck, he can't keep up as he has not yet got the tank to do so.

That’s called seeing what you want to see.
The Adelaide game was a good example of everything being a few per cent off, and an opponent who was up and about.
our actual effort level in that game was first rate and it lasted four quarters. To me it was a prime example of a team who recognised that things weren’t working and got the result through endeavour.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The person who seems to play far better in Ratugolea's absence isn't Hawkins IMO, it's Gary Rohan. No more does he have to get out of the big man's way - it's just see ball, get ball.

This is a point I hadn't considered. Good observation!

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I disagree, teams are more than capable of winning big games with one big and one medium forward. 2011 GF is the best example of that I can think of - one of the key turning points was losing J-Pod and pushing Bartel forward.

Plus getting Taylor off of Travis Cloke and sticking Lonergan on him. Lonners towled him up from then on i!

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

This talk of Jenkins is plainly silly IMO - he's been bought as insurance, let's use him just as insurance if Stanley or Hawkins breaks.

The real question is whether we play both Ratugolea and Hawkins, or just Hawkins. Given that we are in a year where 4th is just as good as 1st, I don't think that any of our H&A games are must-wins - so I would play Ratugolea in every game up until finals to get some confidence and come good.

The person who seems to play far better in Ratugolea's absence isn't Hawkins IMO, it's Gary Rohan. No more does he have to get out of the big man's way - it's just see ball, get ball.

Can't agree with that. If we go down the path of playing two tall forwards, who are you more confident in performing well - Ratugolea or Jenkins? If it's Jenkins (which it is for me), then that's who should be picked.

I've said it before, but personally I think it should be neither > Jenkins > Ratulogea. We've played our best footy without the second tall forward.

 

[My Tilly]

I disagree, teams are more than capable of winning big games with one big and one medium forward. 2011 GF is the best example of that I can think of - one of the key turning points was losing J-Pod and pushing Bartel forward.

True.
Then again, not many many sides who will be playing finals will go in with one tall and one mid-sized.

Collingwood, Cox (210cm) + Mihocek (192cm)
GWS, Cameron (196cm) + Himmelberg (194cm)
West Coast, Darling (192cm) + Kennedy (196cm)
Richmond, Lynch (199cm) + Riewoldt (193cm)
Brisbane, McStay (195cm) + Hipwood (204cm)

I think only Geelong, Port Adelaide and St Kilda would be playing one tall and one medium forward but there is no comparison between Gary Rohan and Tim Membrey as Membrey is a superior mark for his size.

 

[iameviljez]

True.
Then again, not many many sides who will be playing finals will go in with one tall and one mid-sized.

Collingwood, Cox (210cm) + Mihocek (192cm)
GWS, Cameron (196cm) + Himmelberg (194cm)
West Coast, Darling (192cm) + Kennedy (196cm)
Richmond, Lynch (199cm) + Riewoldt (193cm)
Brisbane, McStay (195cm) + Hipwood (204cm)

I think only Geelong, Port Adelaide and St Kilda would be playing one tall and one medium forward but there is no comparison between Gary Rohan and Tim Membrey as Membrey is a superior mark for his size.

192 is absolutely mid sized, this isn’t 1995.

 

[Warhorse]

You think he'd catch Dahlhaus? Or Gary Rohan? Come on mate.

Jenkins would mow down Dahlhaus no worries. He was drafted by Essendon originally because he was a freak athletically.

His draft thread here

Draft Profile - Josh Jenkins

Former elite basketballer, tested well at State Screening. 20m Sprint: 2.91 Vertical Leap: 75cm Running Vertical: 93cm Beep: 13.3 199cm and 100kg Footage here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl3HxX38J_s

www.bigfooty.com

2.91 for the 20m sprint is lightning and faster than Dangerfield. In fact Jenkins is quicker to 20m than Rohan.

It explains why he is able to get out the back. Tall defenders struggle to stay with him.

 

[Seeds]

Yeah and if he played Esava in a must win game and he puts in a howler the anti Scott brigade would be unanimous in saying ‘what the hell did we recruit a proven second forward in Jenkins for if we were just going to play that spud instead.’

No they wouldnt. The anti scott brigade want a second key forward and not another tall defender playing in the forward line come finals. Or no second key forward at all and watch hawkins triple teamed.