The Real AFL MVP - 2025 Edition

[Fadge]

McCluggage is competing with Neale, WAshcroft, Dunkley and Bailey in midfield for votes. It is deep and full of quality. He was still one of the premier mids of the comp all season and finished up 4 coaches votes behind Daicos (competing with dinosaurs and Ned Long in midfield for votes most of the season).

Hugh dominated 3 knockout finals in a row on the way to a premiership, which should have incredibly strong weighting. He outperformed the likes of Rowell, Daicos and Smith in those head to head finals by a significant margin. Of course he is number one.

Elixuh Toffee Lion since we have a Pies nuffy as OP, maybe you guys can offer some balance to this argument.

How do you explain the Players vote in their MVP?

Why the absence of Hugh in the top 5 of that award?

Happy for you to go 70/30 for finals v. Home and away.

I go 30/70, given there's at between 6 to 12 times the data for the home and away games.

 

[Fadge]

5 coaches votes in a QF against the worst top 4 side ever, and none in the prelim, does not equate to a great finals series.

Dominating knockout finals against Gold Coast, Collingwood and Geelong while being the best or equal best player of the best team in the comp all season - on the way to a premiership? Yep, that sends Hugh ahead in a year where not much separated the top 5 or 6 midfielders in the comp.

But he wasn't in the best 5 or 6 midfielders in the comp, until AFTER the finals.

At which time he was the 4th best.

 

[Mr Meow]

Jezza gets elevated due to a strong home and away season despite a poor finals series, and Hugh gets elevated due to a strong finals series despite a far inferior home and away season.

That is the paradoxical world that Mr Meow lives in.

Anything it takes to downgrade Daicos.

Cameron was poor in a GF where he broke his arm. Had a good finals series until then. 88 goals in this era, as the clear best forward in the comp (as opposed to being 1 of 6 mids with not much separating them) has him ahead. Or else you are simply stating it is impossible for a forward to win this "award" in the modern era unless you kick 100+ goals, win a league MVP and a Norm Smith.

 

[Fadge]

Cameron was poor in a GF where he broke his arm. Had a good finals series until then. 88 goals in this era, as the clear best forward in the comp (as opposed to being 1 of 6 mids with not much separating them) has him ahead. Or else you are simply stating it is impossible for a forward to win this "award" in the modern era unless you kick 100+ goals, win a league MVP and a Norm Smith.

As I have said many times, a strong finals series and Jezza is right in the mix.

Average of 10 possesions and under 2 goals is not a strong finals series, hence why he was overtaken by the likes of McGluggage.

 

[Mr Meow]

But he wasn't in the best 5 or 6 midfielders in the comp, until AFTER the finals.

At which time he was the 4th best.

He was. Neale, Washcroft, Dunkley, Berry and Bailey in midfield collectively steal a lot of votes, that's all.

Anyone who actually pays attention clearly has had McCluggage as one of the top few damaging midfielders in the comp. He simply proved it again when it mattered.

 

[Fadge]

He was. Neale, Washcroft, Dunkley, Berry and Bailey in midfield collectively steal a lot of votes, that's all.

Did they all steal Players MVP votes off him as well?

No.

They were stolen by Daicos and Dawson.

 

[Mr Meow]

As I have said many times, a strong finals series and Jezza is right in the mix.

Average of 10 possesions and under 2 goals is not a strong finals series, hence why he was overtaken by the likes of McGluggage.

McCluggage is ahead, I agree.

I've given people a non Collingwood nuffy's perspective and explained all of my rankings. The tantrums and so on I will leave up to you.

 

[Fadge]

McCluggage is ahead, I agree.

I've given people a non Collingwood nuffy's perspective and explained all of my rankings. The tantrums and so on I will leave up to you.

No arguments there.

You certainly are a 'non Collingwood nuffy'.

 

[Fadge]

The tantrums and so on I will leave up to you.

Responding to your posts explaining my rationale is a 'tantrum'?

 

[Mr Meow]

No arguments there.

You certainly are a 'non Collingwood nuffy'.

3 top 5 finishes in a row (2nd, 3rd, 5th) is incredible work by Daicos. Such a consistent player, especially in H&A.

FWIW I think he pops his cherry and gets a 1st, along with Brownlow, in 2026.

 

[Fadge]

3 top 5 finishes in a row (2nd, 3rd, 5th) is incredible work by Daicos.

FWIW I think he pops his cherry and gets a 1st, along with Brownlow, in 2026.

Except...

He's gone 1, 4, 1.

You must me in the wrong thread.

But interesting you value finals so much in 2025, but not so much in 2023....

 

[Mr Meow]

Except...

He's gone 1, 4, 1.

You must me in the wrong thread.

But interesting you value finals so much in 2025, but not so much in 2023....

2nd, 3rd, 5th is actually scarily good for a young buck. You should be proud of those results. You seem angry.

 

[Fadge]

2nd, 3rd, 5th is actually scarily good for a young buck. You should be proud of those results. You seem angry.

Why have you changed your weighting of finals performances so much between 2023 and now?

I think I know why...

 

[Mr Meow]

Why have you changed your weighting of finals performances so much between 2023 and now?

I think I know why...

7 coaches votes in finals in 2023 (pre- GF weighting) was decent for Daicos, of course. Take out that GF weighting and it put him at about 15th on the Ayres votes leaderboard. It wasn't Bontempelli's fault Daicos missed the QF, much like it wasn't Daicos' fault Bontempelli's side didn't qualify for finals.

Hugh had 16 coaches votes in finals in 2025 (pre-GF adjustment), which has him 4th on the Ayres leaderboard. Including a clear BOG in an away prelim. 5 goals and 4 goal assists, 28 clearances, 110 quality disposals. It was a fair finals series.

 

[Fadge]

7 coaches votes in finals in 2023 (pre- GF weighting) was decent for Daicos, of course. Take out that GF weighting and it put him at about 15th on the Ayres votes leaderboard.

How was your 2023 winner's finals series?

Hugh had 16 coaches votes in finals in 2025 (pre-GF adjustment), which has him 4th on the Ayres leaderboard. Including a clear BOG in an away prelim. 5 goals and 4 goal assists, 28 clearances, 110 quality disposals. It was a fair finals series.

Indeed it was. That's why he was rewarded by jumping from 9th pre finals to 4th post finals in the Fadgelow, despite finishing outside the top 10 in both the Brownlow and Coaches Award, and who knows where in the Players MVP.

Conversely, the top 3 in the Fadgelow all had 2 x top 3 finishes in the 3 major individual home and away awards, and reasonable finals series themselves.

Those who had poor finals series - Cameron, Dawson - dropped down the rankings as would be expected.

 

[Mr Meow]

How was your 2023 winner's finals series?


Indeed it was. That's why he was rewarded by jumping from 9th pre finals to 4th post finals in the Fadgelow, despite finishing outside the top 10 in both the Brownlow and Coaches Award, and who knows where in the Players MVP.

Conversely, the top 3 in the Fadgelow all had 2 x top 3 finishes in the 3 major individual home and away awards, and reasonable finals series themselves.

Those who had poor finals series - Cameron, Dawson - dropped down the rankings as would be expected.

I've given all of my explanations in a civil manner. We're going around in circles now and I don't want to speak to you for another 100 post cycle.

 

[Fadge]

I've given all of my explanations in a civil manner. We're going around in circles now and I don't want to speak to you for another 100 post cycle.

In other words... 'I concede, you've got me.'

 

[Lunchtime]

I see Nick Daicos didnt win Collingwood's Best & Fairest tonight, Darcy Cameron

14

Darcy Cameron

Age

30

Ht

204cm

Wt

103kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

2.7

2star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

0.5

3star

HO

3.5

5star

D

6.0

2star

K

3.3

2star

HB

2.7

3star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

did.

 

[Mr Meow]

In other words... 'I concede, you've got me.'

I concede that you would engage in circulation argument discussion for longer than I want to. That's about it.

PS even Max Holmes won a 2025 BnF in a better side than Collingwood, competing against the best forward in the comp and one of the top mids in the comp for votes. Good to see Nick almost beat a ruckman who didn't make the AA squad of 44.

Maybe Max goes ahead of Nick too. Probably a few too many wayward GF helicopters to make it decisive.

 

[Mr Meow]

I see Nick Daicos didnt win Collingwood's Best & Fairest tonight, Darcy Cameron did.

Darcy Cameron is a solid player but it would be a bit like Smith losing the BnF to Tom Atkins or veteran Mark Blicavs (rather than a certified gun in Holmes).

 

[Fadge]

Goes to show how differently the B&F's are voted by the clubs nowadays.

N. Daicos second.
B. Smith second.
M. Rowell wins by a single vote to Anderson, with Miller a solitary vote further behind.
McGluggage second to Dunkley.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Darcy Cameron is a solid player but it would be a bit like Smith losing the BnF to Tom Atkins or veteran Mark Blicavs (rather than a certified gun in Holmes).

Some GOAT contenders have struggled to win multiple B and Fs, haven't they

 

[Fadge]

Some GOAT contenders have struggled to win multiple B and Fs, haven't they

Meow's all over the place.

He spent most of the season claiming Josh was having a better year than Nick.

Goes to show the coaches see the game very differently.

Would anyone have predicted IQ 3rd and Perryman 5th?

 

[Mr Meow]

So we had the players reward Daicos' past few years body of work with the Player MVP. A fine achievement.

In the actual game-by-game voting systems we have had:

-Smith, Anderson and Rowell finish ahead in the Coaches Association award (total).

-Bontempelli, Smith, Butters, Anderson, Rowell and Callaghan finish ahead on coaches votes average per game.

-Rowell finish well ahead in the Brownlow.

-16th place finish on the pLaYeR rAtInGz table.

-Ashcroft, Andrews, Newcombe, McCluggage, Bailey, Blicavs, Dangerfield, Moore, Serong, Dempsey, Callaghan, Dunkley, Gunston, JDG, Hardwick, Stewart, Rowell and Smith ahead in the Finals MVP.

-No coaches votes in knockout finals.

-Darcy Cameron

14

Darcy Cameron

Age

30

Ht

204cm

Wt

103kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

2.7

2star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

0.5

3star

HO

3.5

5star

D

6.0

2star

K

3.3

2star

HB

2.7

3star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

(lol) finish ahead in the BnF.

Still a great season. Not the "Real MVP".

 

[Mr Meow]

Goes to show how differently the B&F's are voted by the clubs nowadays.

N. Daicos second.
B. Smith second.
M. Rowell wins by a single vote to Anderson, with Miller a solitary vote further behind.
McGluggage second to Dunkley.

Holmes and Dunkley are vastly superior players to Darcy Cameron. Daicos as the clear standout midfielder of his side somehow still didn't win the BnF.