Hot Topic The Rebuild, est. 2023 and/or 2025

[ghostdog]

Did a hypothetical prediction as to how the 23 could look in 2028 based on projected age/possible games played at the start of the season. Of course not all will still be on the list or play as many games.

Seems to be the stage at which the side may become experienced enough to make a genuine rise up the ladder/impact in finals before taking FA/trade additions into account.

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Needs more double-fisting bollard Jax Prior.

 

[DERO]

Need to hold the line here for a couple of years. Let's hope the coterie schmucks can keep it together that long.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

By being unequivocal about the rebuild.

If they spin the usual shit about playing finals then of course they’re going to be judged against that publicly stated goal.

I think the way Vozzo/Rosa/Scott have managed the expectations this year has been a big improvement on previous years. Outside of a few journos like McClure/Clark most arent going at us like previous seasons and have accepted that we are in a list restructure phase (if not a full scale rebuild).
But you are right, if we have a slight improvement next year I hope we dont get ahead of ourselves and start puffing our chests out. Thats basically what happened in 2021.

 

[Keystone agony]

This is false. Vozzo already said in May this year that we decided from 2023 to deliberately turn over the list, protect the draft hand at all costs, etc; with a vision for the very long term.

Issue is we were already, and have been for a while, an impatient bunch, but that's nothing to do with Scott, Vozzo and Barham.

This is false

We traded last years 1st

 

[Keystone agony]

It is false because there's nothing from the club to back it up, wheras what I've referenced as directly from Vozzo's mouth contradicts it. So no, it is false.

Scott at some point last year said he was picking the 22 based on the best chance to win... ie not develop

 

[Keystone agony]

Year -1?

Yep this was year 1

Signalled by ridding experience Kelly, Heppell, Hind, Stringer, Weideman ect and debuting the record of debutants in a year

 

[FootyGuru]

Scott at some point last year said he was picking the 22 based on the best chance to win... ie not develop

Winning is important to rebuilding. Scott will choose what he thinks is the best 22 next year too.

McKay Gresham were seen as top ups but they ultimately replaced guys who were older than them. Stewart and tippanwutti. Goldy was acquired because Phillips pulled up stumps earlier than Essendon anticipated. We have had 10 players on average shipped out a year from Scotts first season. I don’t think we have necessarily changed tact and gone a full rebuild in this season I think it has been building to that point from his first year. You simply can’t just change over 15 players a year. Simple because you can’t draft enough quality so deep in the draft and then be forced to hand them 2 year contracts. Then you add in the salary cap.

I think we have essentially been rebuilding as soon as Scott took over the team, even though as a team we have overachieved win wise.

In 5 years I really think we will look back on this year and think wow we really found some players that year and it catapulted the rebuild.

 

[Squeaky]

Need to hold the line here for a couple of years. Let's hope the coterie schmucks can keep it together that long.

This is the risk. Some coterie dip shit resets the clock on all of this...

 

[thebigboy]

This is the risk. Some coterie dip shit resets the clock on all of this...

From what I'm hearing, I wouldn't hold your breath

 

[dank420_]

Whetever. We’ve plunged so deep we can’t pretend anymore. Mission accomplished.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Whetever. We’ve plunged so deep we can’t pretend anymore. Mission accomplished.

It’s this. While replacing the coach in the next year or so would be immensely counterproductive it doesn’t change the fact we’ve bought in a heap of kids and given most of them AFL exposure. Any new coach has no choice but to carry on down that path

 

[Keystone agony]

Winning is important to rebuilding. Scott will choose what he thinks is the best 22 next year too.

McKay Gresham were seen as top ups but they ultimately replaced guys who were older than them. Stewart and tippanwutti. Goldy was acquired because Phillips pulled up stumps earlier than Essendon anticipated. We have had 10 players on average shipped out a year from Scotts first season. I don’t think we have necessarily changed tact and gone a full rebuild in this season I think it has been building to that point from his first year. You simply can’t just change over 15 players a year. Simple because you can’t draft enough quality so deep in the draft and then be forced to hand them 2 year contracts. Then you add in the salary cap.

I think we have essentially been rebuilding as soon as Scott took over the team, even though as a team we have overachieved win wise.

In 5 years I really think we will look back on this year and think wow we really found some players that year and it catapulted the rebuild.

As much as i never rated gresham i dont have an issue with us acquiring either him or Mckay, we paid nothing for them. Its not like we had list spot or cap issues

No doubt remaining competitive is important when considering moral

We wont want to be too young but we will also want to be is serious youth playing, thus developing like this year

The aim will be to get 15-20 games into guys like
A.Clarke
Kako
Zak Johnson
Pick 5
Pick 6
Vigo (Will ultimatly be decided by our off season recruits/departures)

I dont necessarily think we will be looking to do the same with Lual and ADW for example at this stage unless they demand it. Obviousily form over rides alot

And rebuilding is a silly word, its not quantified and its also on a spectrum. Every team as suggested by their club is 'building'. How much and what it exactly is.....

But scott most certainly wasnt 'rebuilding' as soon as he took over as to my definition of the word is, but for some others he may have been as they have a different definition

Id suggest games into guys aged <20 and games into guys >28 or more should be considered

Id say we have played alot more games sub 20 this year and alot less over 28 compared to the other 2 years

 

[BrunoV]

It’s this. While replacing the coach in the next year or so would be immensely counterproductive it doesn’t change the fact we’ve bought in a heap of kids and given most of them AFL exposure. Any new coach has no choice but to carry on down that path

I agree in part but I don't see a change of coach as counter productive per se, not in the way in which it is being suggested that Voss should continue to coach Carlton for no real reason other than a claim about stability. I don't think the precedents favouring stability are being properly applied (as they usually aren't).

In relation to Essendon, you either saw the first 2 years of rubbish for what it was, making it up as we went along, or you didn't. There was a time to act but it has long since passed. Now is not the time to replace Brad Scott the individual though I'd fire someone like Hinkley or Voss out of cannon if this is where we'd gotten to under them.

Whether it has been forced or not the outcome of the season has been a long awaited exploration of an Essendon list. With players like Menzie, Guelfi and Shiel seemingly stuck in the VFL, certainly where the first 2 belong, we have a decent indication that Scott is serious about developing a team, that we will not see a repeat of the stagnation of the North list under Scott - which had been threatened for the past 2 seasons.

I think that I've been consistent on this, that Brad Scott's problem has not and never been that he is not a good head coach (in the old fashioned sense). For example, I doubt there is much difference between the twins when it comes to their overall philosophies, their ability to pick an opponent's game plan apart and even their ability to have players implement plans (bearing in mind that serious ground defence is not a thing in a season such as this one). It's harder to see with Brad because he has not had the resources available to Chris, even though he may bear some responsibility for that, but he wrung every ounce of talent out of that North team to have them play in 2 prelims. Injury gutted what would likely have been a third consecutive run deep into the finals.

I have my theories on the differences between the twins, mainly due to what I believe is Chris' ruthlessness which is not matched by Brad, but it could also be that they're just coaches that they don't see themselves as / are not good at being managers/GMs. Chris talks a lot about this, leaving it to the head of footy and list management to do their jobs. Brad's history suggested to me that he was perfectly suited to a role more as manager/GM, which it seemed to me he was appointed to be, but maybe he's not. The evidence for that was his first 2 years at Essendon, particularly the way in which the list was managed.

But if the Vozzo/Rosa combination has control of the levers which need to be pulled to drive the evolution of the list, that seems to be happening and there are real indications that Brad is doing his part to drive that evolution then he's the man for the job. The thing that you will get with Scott, his brother, Clarkson, Lyon and increasingly Fagan, that you don't get from most coaches is a healthy dose of pragmatism. Even if they sell the idea of 'our footy' the system is adaptable in a way that it needs to be to be ultimately successful. Too many coaches are prepared to live by the sword of their attacking footy while having no where else to go. This is why, for example, Port Adelaide always capped out before a GF and how it can be that GWS can underachieve so dramatically year after year. Longmire, Hardwick and McRae seem to me to be a bit different. They implement single plans which are rounded enough to work or in the case of McRae he seems to be able to get Collingwood to sprint far enough in front of the pack to be able to hold on.

 

[Squeaky]

From what I'm hearing, I wouldn't hold your breath

Do you mean there are rumblings already?

How can anyone that has backed the shitness and mediocrity of the club over the last 15 years not get behind someone/anyone having the balls to fix it properly rather than shitty cutting of corners which has been tried & failed many many times.

The coteries & 'the shmucks' need to get TF out of the way!
They may not like Brad Scott, but he is going over and above what he was sold from these very same people about the competence of the players and overall competence of the club. We are inept at every level - the coteries should have a good view of it, but probably affected by looking through their wine glasses at it. (also difficult to see when one has their head up their arse)

Brad might not be the premiership coach, but he is the only one of very few with the appetite to try & fix whatever this shit show of a club has become.

 

[faible]

Do you mean there are rumblings already?

How can anyone that has backed the shitness and mediocrity of the club over the last 15 years not get behind someone/anyone having the balls to fix it properly rather than shitty cutting of corners which has been tried & failed many many times.

The coteries & 'the shmucks' need to get TF out of the way!
They may not like Brad Scott, but he is going over and above what he was sold from these very same people about the competence of the players and overall competence of the club. We are inept at every level - the coteries should have a good view of it, but probably affected by looking through their wine glasses at it. (also difficult to see when one has their head up their arse)

Brad might not be the premiership coach, but he is the only one of very few with the appetite to try & fix whatever this shit show of a club has become.

Coteries are just BigFooty nuffs with money.

Read some of the takes on here, it's entirely unsurprising to see the same views reflected amongst the coteries.

 

[thebigboy]

Do you mean there are rumblings already?

How can anyone that has backed the shitness and mediocrity of the club over the last 15 years not get behind someone/anyone having the balls to fix it properly rather than shitty cutting of corners which has been tried & failed many many times.

The coteries & 'the shmucks' need to get TF out of the way!
They may not like Brad Scott, but he is going over and above what he was sold from these very same people about the competence of the players and overall competence of the club. We are inept at every level - the coteries should have a good view of it, but probably affected by looking through their wine glasses at it. (also difficult to see when one has their head up their arse)

Brad might not be the premiership coach, but he is the only one of very few with the appetite to try & fix whatever this shit show of a club has become.

Coteries are just BigFooty nuffs with money.

Read some of the takes on here, it's entirely unsurprising to see the same views reflected amongst the coteries.

This.

From what I've heard, which is all second-hand information from people who are in the Essendonians, there have been pockets that are quietly waiting for the next year or so to run its course with injuries and losses, with an idea that the fans will turn on the club and have an appetite for a change similar to what the fanbase felt after the '07-'09 period.

 

[ghostdog]

This.

From what I've heard, which is all second-hand information from people who are in the Essendonians, there have been pockets that are quietly waiting for the next year or so to run its course with injuries and losses, with an idea that the fans will turn on the club and have an appetite for a change similar to what the fanbase felt after the '07-'09 period.

Any names mentioned in terms of who / what those saboteurs envision?

 

[Lore]

Coteries are just BigFooty nuffs with money.

Read some of the takes on here, it's entirely unsurprising to see the same views reflected amongst the coteries.

and influence. but yes.

Too many nuffs not enough nerds

 

[Donflicted]

This.

From what I've heard, which is all second-hand information from people who are in the Essendonians, there have been pockets that are quietly waiting for the next year or so to run its course with injuries and losses, with an idea that the fans will turn on the club and have an appetite for a change similar to what the fanbase felt after the '07-'09 period.

Will be done if this happens ill pack it up cycle needs to break whats happening now is breaking the cycle

 

[bomberlegend2007]

This.

From what I've heard, which is all second-hand information from people who are in the Essendonians, there have been pockets that are quietly waiting for the next year or so to run its course with injuries and losses, with an idea that the fans will turn on the club and have an appetite for a change similar to what the fanbase felt after the '07-'09 period.

Honestly, what is their big plan then? Hird. Or Goodwin? Or Hird and Goodwin.

 

[Squeaky]

Honestly, what is their big plan then? Hird. Or Goodwin? Or Hird and Goodwin.

& Weapon...

 

[Squeaky]

This.

From what I've heard, which is all second-hand information from people who are in the Essendonians, there have been pockets that are quietly waiting for the next year or so to run its course with injuries and losses, with an idea that the fans will turn on the club and have an appetite for a change similar to what the fanbase felt after the '07-'09 period.

Wow!
Cos 2007-2009 was the point where things turned around & we ceased being a shit show!
(These guys are kidding themselves, surely)
People had an appetite for change years ago! But the club was still selling how good we were!
How can anyone not see that? Never mind those in a privileged position who should know better.

In the big picture, All that happened after that 2007-2009 period is a small blip on the downward trajectory.
Didn't that serve us well...

 

[Old Campaigner]

We really need some sort of governance mechanism to curtail the influence of these ****wits while still harvesting their money

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Coteries are just BigFooty nuffs with money.

Read some of the takes on here, it's entirely unsurprising to see the same views reflected amongst the coteries.

This what makes me a little more optimistic about current situation.
From my observations I haven't seen as much "sky is falling" posts here or on other socials as previous seasons.

So I hope it would be the same with the coteries, a small group of dissenting voices but most understanding current situation re list rebuild plan.

In that regards I think they've done a decent job with messaging this year, you can even see it with the shift in attitude of most of the media, even hot take kings like Cornes have been somewhat positive about our long term outlook.

Maybe im being naive though, who knows.

 

[thebigboy]

Any names mentioned in terms of who / what those saboteurs envision?

Honestly, what is their big plan then? Hird. Or Goodwin? Or Hird and Goodwin.

Nope. Sadly didn't get that level of goss. Granted, hearing it, I blacked out with rage that once again, they see the footy club as their own personal plaything rather than using their resources to actually get behind the club in a healthy way.

Wow!
Cos 2007-2009 was the point where things turned around & we ceased being a shit show!
(These guys are kidding themselves, surely)
People had an appetite for change years ago! But the club was still selling how good we were!
How can anyone not see that? Never mind those in a privileged position who should know better.

In the big picture, All that happened after that 2007-2009 period is a small blip on the downward trajectory.
Didn't that serve us well...

I agree, you would think that they'd be smart enough to understand that, but these guys have gotten to where they are on the back of their ego & the belief that they are the answer to a lot of problems and have the money to not care what the average fan thinks. Add that into a room where everyone thinks the same, and the level of smugness gets to an unhealthy level.