Analysis The rebuild of Carlton and Brisbane and their future prospects

Which team has the better future prospects on-field?


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Blue1980

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Despite our outs, our midfield has remained at full strength (besides Pittonet).

As long we have Cripps, Walsh, Hewett, Kennedy and Cerra running around we should be favourites.

Having said that, the Pies midfield could trouble us. Adams, Daicos, De Goey, Lipinski, Sidebottom isn't anything to sneeze at.
As long as we have one of Charlie Curnow/Mckay in the side, Weitering and Cripps playing I think we can win around 16 matches.

Would be a worry if TDK went down without Pittonet fit as well.
 
Despite our outs, our midfield has remained at full strength (besides Pittonet).

As long we have Cripps, Walsh, Hewett, Kennedy and Cerra running around we should be favourites.

Having said that, the Pies midfield could trouble us. Adams, Daicos, De Goey, Lipinski, Sidebottom isn't anything to sneeze at.
You'll get first hands on it more often - it's really whether we can squeeze enough pressure to make your entries sloppy, or whether your blokes can get clean entries. That's been the difference between us being in the game or not this year.
 

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Benga

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You'll get first hands on it more often - it's really whether we can squeeze enough pressure to make your entries sloppy, or whether your blokes can get clean entries. That's been the difference between us being in the game or not this year.
Your pressure will be an important factor on Sunday, but those pressure acts need to lead to intercept and rebound.

It’s not going to be enough to just force sloppy entries, simply because our inside 50 are not a strong suit to begin with.
We are not Sydney or a Fremantle, who cut you up with quick, crisp, elegant forward momentum. We look to handball and overlap run as much as possible to get deep entry to dangerous spots and rely on McKay and Curnow to simply be better than their opponents and mark it. Which they do quite effectively. If not a combination of tackling pressure from our smalls (owies is no1 in the Afl at this, and durdin is electric) to at the very least slow the rebound out of def 50 down enough for our mids get fwd, and then beat the opposition at what we do best, and that’s win clearances and contested ball, and score.

So if you want to beat us, which I think you a more than capable of, that pressure needs to result in an intercept possession, and hurt us from there.
 
Your pressure will be an important factor on Sunday, but those pressure acts need to lead to intercept and rebound.

It’s not going to be enough to just force sloppy entries, simply because our inside 50 are not a strong suit to begin with.
We are not Sydney or a Fremantle, who cut you up with quick, crisp, elegant forward momentum. We look to handball and overlap run as much as possible to get deep entry to dangerous spots and rely on McKay and Curnow to simply be better than their opponents and mark it. Which they do quite effectively. If not a combination of tackling pressure from our smalls (owies is no1 in the Afl at this, and durdin is electric) to at the very least slow the rebound out of def 50 down enough for our mids get fwd, and then beat the opposition at what we do best, and that’s win clearances and contested ball, and score.

So if you want to beat us, which I think you a more than capable of, that pressure needs to result in an intercept possession, and hurt us from there.
I should have said clean or quick. Teams are happy with entries to the hot-spot when numbers are back, but to one on ones it can get ugly.
 
This thread is just a Carlton/Essendon/Collingwood fiesta now, bloody hell.

Not even sure why this thread is still a thing. It's 5 years old. Lions haven't achieved anything besides 1 Prelim appearance but we did get out of our rebuild before Carlton, so the answer to the original thread hasn't changed. Lions "won" the rebuild race, so much so that Carlton has a thread like this with Fremantle.

Just make a new thread called 'Who will win a premiership first out of Brisbane/Carlton/Fremantle' and take most of the conversation here, over there.

FWIW, happy that the Blues are up and about alongside the Lions. Both fan bases have been dealt a s**t hand over the last 10-15 years. I have most certainly enjoyed the last 3-4 years at the top, even without a premiership. Blues fans will be enjoying these H&A wins just as much after a decade of misery.
 

Benga

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Considering any rebuild thread isn’t really relevant for 5+ years, i would have thought it was obvious as to why it’s “still a thing”
 
Considering any rebuild thread isn’t really relevant for 5+ years, i would have thought it was obvious as to why it’s “still a thing”
That's completely wrong. 5 years on it's just hindsight discussion and circlejerking.

The whole point of the original thread was to discsuss the 'future prospects', which have now become current prospects. To estimate the futures of the respective teams, hence Bazza suggesting potential finals windows (Which he got the Lions correct and the Blues missed the mark).

So no, it shouldn't still be a thing. The conversation has well and truly shifted for both clubs. There is no more rebuilding, it's been done and discussed.
 

BangyBangy

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Considering any rebuild thread isn’t really relevant for 5+ years, i would have thought it was obvious as to why it’s “still a thing”

True but it's mainly still a thing because Essendon vs Carlton fans :D

Edit: But I still enjoy the read.

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This thread is just a Carlton/Essendon/Collingwood fiesta now, bloody hell.

Not even sure why this thread is still a thing. It's 5 years old. Lions haven't achieved anything besides 1 Prelim appearance but we did get out of our rebuild before Carlton, so the answer to the original thread hasn't changed. Lions "won" the rebuild race, so much so that Carlton has a thread like this with Fremantle.

Just make a new thread called 'Who will win a premiership first out of Brisbane/Carlton/Fremantle' and take most of the conversation here, over there.

FWIW, happy that the Blues are up and about alongside the Lions. Both fan bases have been dealt a s**t hand over the last 10-15 years. I have most certainly enjoyed the last 3-4 years at the top, even without a premiership. Blues fans will be enjoying these H&A wins just as much after a decade of misery.
How do you win a rebuild race? Brisbane re-entered the finals race quicker (which I'm assuming you are alluding to), but then again - when their rebuild commence? They were rubbish for a long period of time and were raking in draft picks and unable to attract senior talent. I'd argue the general timeframe for the Lions stockpiling draft picks started around 2011, but a lot of those young players bailed - it's basically been one continuous rebuild for the Lions.

The Lions were absent from the finals from 2010-2019, Blues have been absent since 2013 - if we make it this year that's a shorter turnaround to competing in finals.
 
How do you win a rebuild race? Brisbane re-entered the finals race quicker (which I'm assuming you are alluding to), but then again - when their rebuild commence? They were rubbish for a long period of time and were raking in draft picks and unable to attract senior talent. I'd argue the general timeframe for the Lions stockpiling draft picks started around 2011, but a lot of those young players bailed - it's basically been one continuous rebuild for the Lions.

The Lions were absent from the finals from 2007-2018, Blues have been absent since 2013 - if we make it this year we've actually had a shorter turnaround time to becoming a competitive side.
The Lions made finals in 2009 (Beating the Blues, funnily enough).

2010 was the year that Voss pushed for senior talent to attempt a steal at a premiership. Failed, obviously. 2012 we finished with 10 wins and in 2013 we were 1 kick away from finals. The remnants of that 2009's final side was still largely intact and even had sprinkling's of our 01'-03' premiership team (Black/Brown/McGrath etc).

It wasn't until 2014 that I truly believe our rebuild began, Voss was gone at the end of 2013 and we begun stockpiling young talent. Retirements of Brown & Black as well. We obviously had the Go Home 5 that stinted the beginning of our rebuild. I believe 2014 to 2019 is a decent timeline from beginning a rebuild to ending one.

To your original question though, 'How do you win a rebuild race?' Truthfully if the Blues rebuild started shortly after the Lions, then there was never a race to begin with. Just because they were both at similar points in 2017, doesn't mean their start/end dates will match (Evidently as it's turned out). I cannot speak for when the Blues rebuild started so I don't even attempt to cover that side of the story.

But who cares, if it took the Blues a few more years and they end up with a cup (or two), then who is the real winner? Right now the Lions haven't won anything, so none of it matters.
 
That's completely wrong. 5 years on it's just hindsight discussion and circlejerking.

The whole point of the original thread was to discsuss the 'future prospects', which have now become current prospects. To estimate the futures of the respective teams, hence Bazza suggesting potential finals windows (Which he got the Lions correct and the Blues missed the mark).

So no, it shouldn't still be a thing. The conversation has well and truly shifted for both clubs. There is no more rebuilding, it's been done and discussed.

I think it's quite interesting, as at the moment, the top of the ladder is dominated by teams who were really bad 5 years ago. So how they went aobut their rebuild and it's effectiveness is interesting and relevant for all teams, as every team will have to rebuild sooner or later.

But it is boring as a we're better than you pissing contest.
 

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Both sides travelling well and are at this point, with different strategies

Winning finals, ultimately flags is the real test
I won't lie, it would be disappointing if this current crop don't win a flag.

But also I'm just happy to be a successful side again and winning on most weekends. It's slowly wearing thin as it's Year 4 now at the top but still remains true.

I envy Blues fans who are only just now entering this period of domination, even if finals/premierships are eluded.
 

Benga

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That's completely wrong. 5 years on it's just hindsight discussion and circlejerking.

The whole point of the original thread was to discsuss the 'future prospects', which have now become current prospects. To estimate the futures of the respective teams, hence Bazza suggesting potential finals windows (Which he got the Lions correct and the Blues missed the mark).

So no, it shouldn't still be a thing. The conversation has well and truly shifted for both clubs. There is no more rebuilding, it's been done and discussed.
… What a truly bizarre take…

- ask a question

- form hypothesis

- run the experiment

……. Aaaand then…..

leave out the conclusion.
 

BangyBangy

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Both sides travelling well and are at this point, with different strategies

Winning finals, ultimately flags is the real test

Yep, but also for both teams setting up the list for a period of sustained success would have to be a goal also. I'm happy where the Lions are currently, and as much as I'd love a flag in the next two to three years, I'd also like our club to be playing finals for the next five to ten years.
 
… What a truly bizarre take…

- ask a question

- form hypothesis

- run the experiment

……. Aaaand then…..

leave out the conclusion.
Some could argue the conclusion was 3 years ago. You're simply just arguing that it's either not concluded or has only concluded just now.
 

Benga

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What I’m arguing is simply, that it is up for valid discussion. Nothing more, nothing less.

And regardless of whether Melbourne, Brisbane, Carlton or anyone wins the flag this year, it will be a valid and interesting discussion next year too 👍
 

dmac_55

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Carlton's record so far

View attachment 1408760

Other than beating an underdone 7th and almost being overrun against 8th, there's nothing much else to write home about.

You'd think it'd make sense to wait until you've played and won against the best before you start talking "I'd rather the Dees at the MCG" type s**t, but then again, that's not the Blues way.

View attachment 1408766
Amazing table, can you do that for some of the other teams like Freo Melbourne and the Lions?
 

Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

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Sorry, I meant to type : "don't have many close games against ..."

8 and 2 is fantastic.

But two 5 goal losses and 2 wins by less than a goal makes it a bit flattering. Hence your percentage being the 8th best in the league.
8-2 is 8-2.
Percentage only matters if you end up on the same points as teams either side.
Would be unlikely (not impossible) at this stage to cost us a spot in the 8. It may cost us a 2nd chance spot in the 4 or change our finals matchup, but if we aren't a genuine flag chance this year, then it's really just about the side experiencing the pace and pressure of finals footy to take into next year.

We've had our 2nd and 3rd tall defenders from the start of the year miss most of the season. We've had the reigning Coleman now missing games. Our 1st ruck miss a heap. Most of our mids have missed 1-2 each. We've debuted a couple players.
Fielding one of the youngest and least experienced sides under a new coaching group and new system.
I think most supporters know where we're at and how our draw has been and our mid game fades, but we've still managed to eek out the wins.
 

Bazza97

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Having created this thread, I'm happy to see both Brisbane and Carlton currently in the top 4. Long way to go, but these teams could very well play each other come finals time. I'm especially interested to see how this Carlton group will fare September as we haven't seen them in the finals before and also to see whether Brisbane can improve after having a few years of finals exposure.
 

GordonBlue

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Richmond were underdone .
Where's this s**t that Richmond were underdone when Carlton played them coming from? They were coming into this season choc full of confidence. Smashing teams in preseason with a full team minus only a couple next line players. They were hyped up as being back.

Carlton were more underdone.

Back to topic.

Truth be told, this thread should not have resurfaced, at least not yet.

As Carlton fans, it's good to be excited and believe we can be talked about in the same breathe, but that takes more than 10 games to establish.

Brisbane have been here at the top for 4 years. It doesn't matter how well Carlton are doing, it doesn't change that.

Carlton loses this Sunday, it takes away a lot from that's been achieved in the eye of the ingustry.

Brisbane can lose next 3 and they're still GF favourites with what will be 4 years of being a top team.

Until Carlton make a GF or win it, without Brisbane achieving that first, until then does it merit this discussion.
 

Benga

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So we’ve got one person saying we can’t discuss this now, as it’s too late, the rebuilds are done.
And one person saying we can’t discuss this, as it’s too early and we haven’t achieved anything.

Can someone let me know when I am allowed to discuss a topic next time so I don’t get it wrong?
 
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