Analysis The rebuild of Carlton and Brisbane and their future prospects

[doppleganger]

Brisbane’s mature recruits gave them plenty last night

Lyons, McCarthy, Neale were all great first up.

C.Cameron and Hodge continue to prove their worth too.

Much more to a list re-build than simply acquiring a bunch of early draft picks.

 

[Blue1980]

Brisbane’s mature recruits gave them plenty last night

Lyons, McCarthy, Neale were all great first up.

C.Cameron and Hodge continue to prove their worth too.

Much more to a list re-build than simply acquiring a bunch of early draft picks.

It’s both.

Our plan was hit the draft early in the bulld then get more experienced reinforcements in.

We tried with Shiel last year and we will try even more this year.

Early on we had the Kerridge, Lamb, Graham, Wright, Sumner, O’s**t and Mullet types to provide a bit more experience while we got the young talent in.

We are starting our build from a different place to Brisbane, and a bit later. We finally now have a decent core in C Curnow, Weitering, Cripps, SPS, Dow, McKay, Cuningham, Plowman, Walsh, Setterfield, Fisher, Marchbank and McGovern. The majority of those id back to be around for a fair while.

Our main deficiencies are now lack of small forwards and bigger bodies in the midfield, where obviously a Josh Kelly would boost us massively.

Add Docherty and Kelly we could be a shot at making the 8 2020.

As it stands I think we will play finals either 2021/22

 

[Kwality]

It’s both.

Our plan was hit the draft early in the bulld then get more experienced reinforcements in.

We tried with Shiel last year and we will try even more this year.

Early on we had the Kerridge, Lamb, Graham, Wright, Sumner, O’s**t and Mullet types to provide a bit more experience while we got the young talent in.

We are starting our build from a different place to Brisbane, and a bit later. We finally now have a decent core in C Curnow, Weitering, Cripps, SPS, Dow, McKay, Cuningham, Plowman, Walsh, Setterfield, Fisher, Marchbank and McGovern. The majority of those id back to be around for a fair while.

Our main deficiencies are now lack of small forwards and bigger bodies in the midfield, where obviously a Josh Kelly would boost us massively.

Add Docherty and Kelly we could be a shot at making the 8 2020.

As it stands I think we will play finals either 2021/22

Going forward 2021 looks achievable, who will be on their last legs/gone of the current leaders?

 

[Kwality]

Brisbane’s mature recruits gave them plenty last night

Lyons, McCarthy, Neale were all great first up.

C.Cameron and Hodge continue to prove their worth too.

Much more to a list re-build than simply acquiring a bunch of early draft picks.

Fagan has goy that list right, give them another couple of years, making it hard to beat at home is to hit the score board to move up the ladder.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Going forward 2021 looks achievable, who will be on their last legs/gone of the current leaders?

great question. probably just murphy and simpson. everyone else is youngish. which is why bolts is falling in love lol.

i could also see simpson playing til about 45years old

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

It’s both.

Our plan was hit the draft early in the bulld then get more experienced reinforcements in.

We tried with Shiel last year and we will try even more this year.

Early on we had the Kerridge, Lamb, Graham, Wright, Sumner, O’s**t and Mullet types to provide a bit more experience while we got the young talent in.

We are starting our build from a different place to Brisbane, and a bit later. We finally now have a decent core in C Curnow, Weitering, Cripps, SPS, Dow, McKay, Cuningham, Plowman, Walsh, Setterfield, Fisher, Marchbank and McGovern. The majority of those id back to be around for a fair while.

Our main deficiencies are now lack of small forwards and bigger bodies in the midfield, where obviously a Josh Kelly would boost us massively.

Add Docherty and Kelly we could be a shot at making the 8 2020.

As it stands I think we will play finals either 2021/22

Don’t feed the troll.....

It’s been reiterated to it ad-nauseam throughout this thread.

 

[Neese]

I really like watching Brisbane play. Would not be surprised if they made the 8

 

[Blue1980]

I really like watching Brisbane play. Would not be surprised if they made the 8

I think their in the mix now.

Their now what their doing last year in patches for longer periods of games

 

[Blue1980]

Going forward 2021 looks achievable, who will be on their last legs/gone of the current leaders?

Probably daisy and Simpson gone.

Murphy and Kreuzer possibly still going, depending on injury. I’d back Murphy to still be around ahead of Kreuzer with their respective injury histories and the fact Murphy will now be able to play more outside than he has in the past.

Ed Curnow probably phased out by then

 

[doppleganger]

It’s both.

Our plan was hit the draft early in the bulld then get more experienced reinforcements in.

We tried with Shiel last year and we will try even more this year.

Early on we had the Kerridge, Lamb, Graham, Wright, Sumner, O’s**t and Mullet types to provide a bit more experience while we got the young talent in.

We are starting our build from a different place to Brisbane, and a bit later. We finally now have a decent core in C Curnow, Weitering, Cripps, SPS, Dow, McKay, Cuningham, Plowman, Walsh, Setterfield, Fisher, Marchbank and McGovern. The majority of those id back to be around for a fair while.

Our main deficiencies are now lack of small forwards and bigger bodies in the midfield, where obviously a Josh Kelly would boost us massively.

Add Docherty and Kelly we could be a shot at making the 8 2020.

As it stands I think we will play finals either 2021/22

Building from a bit later...how ridiculous.

Carlton fans declare 2015 draft as their ground zero.

When are they pegging Brisbane to have started this build? 2014 the Lions didn’t have any picks in top 40 of draft. 2015 they finished on same number of wins as Carlton and were given pick 2.

Lions took Scache at pick 2 that draft, and again lost him to the go home factor...same as what happened with Docherty, Yeo, Polec etc.

They also sacked Leppitsch at end of 2016 when they had another 3 win season.

But yet Carlton fans still trot out the dribble that the Lions are more advanced in their build!!

When do Carlton fans actually think the Lions started this rebuild?

Plenty of their gun youngsters are from 16 - McCluggage, Berry, Witherden
17 - Rayner, Bailey.

The big difference is Brisbane decided to surround their kids with quality senior players.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Building from a bit later...how ridiculous.

Carlton fans declare 2015 draft as their ground zero.

When are they pegging Brisbane to have started this build? 2014 the Lions didn’t have any picks in top 40 of draft. 2015 they finished on same number of wins as Carlton and were given pick 2.

Lions took Scache at pick 2 that draft, and again lost him to the go home factor...same as what happened with Docherty, Yeo, Polec etc.

They also sacked Leppitsch at end of 2016 when they had another 3 win season.

But yet Carlton fans still trot out the dribble that the Lions are more advanced in their build!!

When do Carlton fans actually think the Lions started this rebuild?

Plenty of their gun youngsters are from 16 - McCluggage, Berry, Witherden
17 - Rayner, Bailey.

The big difference is Brisbane decided to surround their kids with quality senior players.

their ground zero was the end of 2013 when they lost yeo, docherty, and polec.

our ground zero was the end of 2015 after the mick malthouse experiment was officially a failure.

comparing lists right now (not comparing which individual players are better, just showing the equivalent player on each list)
hodge = simpson
witherden = docherty
rich = newman
christensen = thomas
andrews = weitering
mcstay = jones
neale = cripps
zorko = murphy
robinson = ed curnow
hipwood = charlie curnow
mcluggage = petrevski-seton
rayner = walsh
berry = dow
martin = kruezer
bailey = fisher
gardiner = mckay
walker = mcgovern
lyons = setterfield
bastinac = matt kennedy
cameron = fasolo
mccarthy = cungham

the lists are honestly very similarly balanced between youth and experience.

the biggest difference that i see is they have goal kicking smalls in cameron, rayner, mccarthy and zorko while we don't have that goal kicking ability with our small players, that's why brisbane are the better side at the moment.

 

[Requiem]

their ground zero was the end of 2013 when they lost yeo, docherty, and polec.

our ground zero was the end of 2015 after the mick malthouse experiment was officially a failure.

comparing lists right now (not comparing which individual players are better, just showing the equivalent player on each list)
hodge = simpson
witherden = docherty
rich = newman
christensen = thomas
andrews = weitering
mcstay = jones
neale = cripps
zorko = murphy
robinson = ed curnow
hipwood = charlie curnow
mcluggage = petrevski-seton
rayner = walsh
berry = dow
martin = kruezer
bailey = fisher
gardiner = mckay
walker = mcgovern
lyons = setterfield
bastinac = matt kennedy
cameron = fasolo
mccarthy = cungham

the lists are honestly very similarly balanced between youth and experience.

the biggest difference that i see is they have goal kicking smalls in cameron, rayner, mccarthy and zorko while we don't have that goal kicking ability with our small players, that's why brisbane are the better side at the moment.

It wasn't actually, the club was heavily promoting a final berth in the pre-season of 2014.

We still finished with 7 wins that season, even though we suffered some key injuries (Rich ACL, Brown Retirement, ect).

I would say that the end of 2014 was ground zero.

 

[Alphonse_]

Good to see Brisbane up and about, think they were in just as bad/dark place as The Sun's are now after the Go Home 5 and Leppitsch years (but to be fair to Leppa, the club had a poor administration at the time)

My point is, Gold Coast are not a lost cause, get the right people into the club from an administration and coaching POV and things can turn around, nor quickly, but within a 3 years and with some hard work.

Carlton will be fine also, got some ripping recruits this year (Walsh, Setterfield, Newman etc), give us another month before making a proper assessment as to who we are progressing

 

[doppleganger]

their ground zero was the end of 2013 when they lost yeo, docherty, and polec.

our ground zero was the end of 2015 after the mick malthouse experiment was officially a failure.

Yeah Lions sacked Voss end of 2013. But was it really a ground zero!?

Sure the go home 5 left, but that wasn’t by design.

They only had three top 20 picks in 2013-14-15 and Hipwood is the only top 20 pick still on their list. Scache and Aish the only other top 20 picks taken and they moved on.

It was Brown having to retire due to concussion problems mid 2014 that killed their season. But still at end of 2014 they traded out of the draft for Beams, Christensen etc so was hardly all in on rebuilding when Leppa’s took over.

If you follow club win loss they were very similar

2012 it was C 11 v BL 10
2013 it was C 11 v BL 10
Lions cut Voss
2014 it was both on 7
2015 it was both on 4
Carlton cut Malthouse
2016 it was C 6 v BL 3
Lions cut Leppa
2017 it was C 6 v BL 5
2018 it was C 2 v BL 5

Smartly the Lions realised they were going nowhere under Leppitsch, so he was sacked.

Fagan cleared out veterans like Rockliff and Hanley who were taking them nowhere, brought in his own people and the Lions look like a team going places which is based on youngsters primarily from the 16-17 drafts and good senior guys that Fagan has brought in.

 

[Malifice]

Brisbane’s mature recruits gave them plenty last night

Lyons, McCarthy, Neale were all great first up.

C.Cameron and Hodge continue to prove their worth too.

Much more to a list re-build than simply acquiring a bunch of early draft picks.

I agree.

Now that Carlton have the nucleus of a good young side in place, we're going to look to supplement that list over the next 2-3 drafts with ready made mature talent via trades and free agency.

Should be back in the finals by 2021, and once there should be there for some time.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Probably daisy and Simpson gone.

Murphy and Kreuzer possibly still going, depending on injury. I’d back Murphy to still be around ahead of Kreuzer with their respective injury histories and the fact Murphy will now be able to play more outside than he has in the past.

Ed Curnow probably phased out by then

Murphy like Zorko seems pretty durable so it's possible. 33 in 2021?

 

[chunkylover53]

Lists aren't dissimilar, Brisbane just getting much more out of their players. Good style and instilling belief.

Blues on the other hand... Not so sure.

 

[Blue1980]

Building from a bit later...how ridiculous.

Carlton fans declare 2015 draft as their ground zero.

When are they pegging Brisbane to have started this build? 2014 the Lions didn’t have any picks in top 40 of draft. 2015 they finished on same number of wins as Carlton and were given pick 2.

Lions took Scache at pick 2 that draft, and again lost him to the go home factor...same as what happened with Docherty, Yeo, Polec etc.

They also sacked Leppitsch at end of 2016 when they had another 3 win season.

But yet Carlton fans still trot out the dribble that the Lions are more advanced in their build!!

When do Carlton fans actually think the Lions started this rebuild?

Plenty of their gun youngsters are from 16 - McCluggage, Berry, Witherden
17 - Rayner, Bailey.

The big difference is Brisbane decided to surround their kids with quality senior players.

You do realize no 2 builds are the same don’t you? Not every club begins with identical lists.

You are either an idiot or a troll.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Lists aren't dissimilar, Brisbane just getting much more out of their players. Good style and instilling belief.

Blues on the other hand... Not so sure.

The Blues fight back from 40 points down is a good sign that some self belief is building.

 

[doppleganger]

You do realize no 2 builds are the same don’t you? Not every club begins with identical lists.

You are either an idiot or a troll.

Yep. That is the point.

Brisbane identified the value in surrounding their talented kids with quality mature players, and they ditched a coach when it was clear he wasn’t taking them anywhere.

It is why they are actually building something, and play great attacking footy that is fun to watch.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

You do realize no 2 builds are the same don’t you? Not every club begins with identical lists.

You are either an idiot or a troll.

 

[Davey33]

Fagan has goy that list right, give them another couple of years, making it hard to beat at home is to hit the score board to move up the ladder.

Its obviously more than just the list.

He's got them playing great football with a great game plan. He obviously knows what he's doing

 

[Davey33]

Lists aren't dissimilar, Brisbane just getting much more out of their players. Good style and instilling belief.

Blues on the other hand... Not so sure.

Seems like Fagan also has a much more offensive/attacking game plan whereas Bolton started (at least his first two seasons) with a strong emphasis on defense.
He backed his players in and is seeing the results.

 

[HowYouDoin]

Its obviously more than just the list.

He's got them playing great football with a great game plan. He obviously knows what he's doing

He's also a better coach than Bolton, which helps as well

 

[Toffee Lion]

I think the Lions & Blues will both be in the finals going forward of 2021, we might get in a year earlier though.

Don't think we'll make finals this year, I'm hoping for 10-12 with a good percentage and no blowouts.