Opinion The Rebuild Thread

[etsal1]

Butcher was exceptionally highly rated as a junior and was, from memory, considered for most of the year leading up to his draft a chance of being taken at pick 1.

Hughes probably did rate him as the best tall in the draft...and I reckon most if not all recruiting managers would have agreed with him.

WH has copped his fair share of criticism but that's well and truly a step too far.

It's more of a concern that he didn't rate Talia or Black or Carlisle.

 

[Jeremias]

It's more of a concern that he didn't rate Talia or Black or Carlisle.

You don't know he didn't rate those players. Let's not re-write history.

You claim Hughes rated Butcher as the best tall in that draft. That's not a concern, in fact it was the consensus at the time considering, as I said, Butcher was considered a genuine contender for pick 1 in the year leading up to the draft.

Butcher hasn't worked out and yes, all of Talia, Black and Carlisle have clearly passed him by, but there's no reason to discredit Hughes or talk him down because he supposedly rated Butcher as the best of the lot. They all did.

 

[etsal1]

You don't know he didn't rate those players. Let's not re-write history.

You claim Hughes rated Butcher as the best tall in that draft. That's not a concern, in fact it was the consensus at the time considering, as I said, Butcher was considered a genuine contender for pick 1 in the year leading up to the draft.

Butcher hasn't worked out and yes, all of Talia, Black and Carlisle have clearly passed him by, but there's no reason to discredit Hughes or talk him down because he supposedly rated Butcher as the best of the lot. They all did.

Not sure who posted it but there was a quote from Hughes saying he only rated butcher.

 

[The Edukator]

Carlton would just be so silly to not pick up a kpf this year. Supporters have been talking about the lack of a big target for years now and it's time to finally bite the bullet! They are in a position to get a highly rated one too.

Forget shiel if it comes at the price of a kpf. Gun midfielders go around almost every year and we all know how difficult it is to get a kpf.

http://www.sen.com.au/inside-football-display-article-2013/Want-a-superstar-key-forward/70564

Article points towards their value.

Please draft a big forward Carlton!!

 

[gbatman]

Carlton need to find a key forward or two and need to bring in some real high quality midfielders to bolster our midfield and replace some aging players. It could be argued that we may need a small defender but that doesn't seem as urgent. We could also do with a decent ruckman as both our ruckmen are seriously limited though having a gun ruckman isn't as crucial in being successful.

Waite. Judd, Simpson, Mclean, Scotland and probably Jamison, Walker and Armfield are players nearing the end of their Careers. I think Henderson will end up down back, likely replacing Jamison who might battle to play into his 30's. On top of this we are already short on midfielders and tall forwards.

All reasons why we must be aggressive and trade hard for draft picks. We need a big extraordinary year or two to turn carlton around because normal draft bounties just isn't enough. A few gun father son picks wouldn't hurt either.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Carlton need to find a key forward or two and need to bring in some real high quality midfielders to bolster our midfield and replace some aging players. It could be argued that we may need a small defender but that doesn't seem as urgent. We could also do with a decent ruckman as both our ruckmen are seriously limited though having a gun ruckman isn't as crucial in being successful.

Waite. Judd, Simpson, Mclean, Scotland and probably Jamison, Walker and Armfield are players nearing the end of their Careers. I think Henderson will end up down back, likely replacing Jamison who might battle to play into his 30's. On top of this we are already short on midfielders and tall forwards.

All reasons why we must be aggressive and trade hard for draft picks. We need a big extraordinary year or two to turn carlton around because normal draft bounties just isn't enough. A few gun father son picks wouldn't hurt either.

Totally agree with us being aggressive this year, but we should be aggressive each and every year.
I think we just hoped that a premiership would happen in the Judd years, but unfortunately haven't planned as well as we should have after his time. Unfortunately, that time is now and its before he has even retired...

If we don't get one of the 3 talls, I wouldn't mind us taking Petrenca with our first. Gun!
We need to somehow get into the first round elsewhere, most likely towards the end to hopefully pick up a tall that has slid through.
As I mentioned in one of these 1000 threads that all seem to revolve around drafts and trades. We need a few picks in the 20-40 bracket. There are players that go that late that we would love on our team right now. Hannebery, Tippett, Sam Reid, Luke Parker and Membrey was 47. Thats just by going to the swans website
Must have 5-6 picks inside the top 40!

 

[gbatman]

I think we may as well have challenged for the flag, at leas a bit more strongly if our drafting was better, you at least need one good player coming in per year, our drafting from 2009-2011 was worse than our drafting when we were penalised from the AFL.

Penalised years
Kade Simpson, Brad Fisher. - 2002
Andrew Walker, Jordan Bannister - 2003

Bad drafting stretch
Lucas - 2009
Watson, McInness - 2010
Rowe, Buckley (F/S) - 2011
There were bad drafting years prior to this that hurt us like 2007 and 2004 (bad draft), but this stretch is what hurt us from challenging for the flag and is why we are on a big decline from 2012 to the present.

Really agree that getting picks inside the top 40 is the go, any first rounders would be gold. I think it's possible but these decisions, while they could be very fruitful, would be unpopular but must be done to get us back on track as our holes are many and our quality is low.


Trading Strategy

We all talk about aggressive trading and being proactive at trade period but what does that actually mean? It means trading those players that we can afford to lose and trading guys who can really play. It means trading some fan favorites and making some unpopular decisions for the good of the club and it's future.
All these poor drafting efforts

Firstly you would trade both Warnock and Kreuzer, not either, both! Both might be highly rated because one gets a lot of hitouts and the other was a highly rated junior who has a tenancy for having a go but offers little else. Might over price them a little at trade week particularly as both should have plenty of footy ahead of them though injuries may suggest other wise. We promote Wood and draft a young ruckman, ideally you'd love to draft Peter Wright and use the two draft picks you gain from the trade to pick up other good young players which we so desperately need.

Secondly, Garlett. He's had some very good seasons which gives him trade value and he's young but lets face it he's not mentally there at times and this year it's been most of the time. I think he'd have some good trade value, pick 30 odd (plus maybe a player), possibly better if there's more interest.

Robinson and Bell - Some are waiting for them to improve, it's not really happening this is their best and they are just good average battlers, both can play a bit and are young and this gives them value. They are hard nuts and plenty of teams are after this. With Cripps, Holman, Curnow and Graham coming on we can replace them easily. Again here are good picks waiting for us to grab with ordinary inconsistent poorly skilled players. You might get pick 30-40 for these guys and if it's a good draft you can still pick players from here. Not sure I'd trade both though as we do need some depth.

Judd, most people wouldn't see this as as option and maybe it isn't but if Judd has more footy left in him which I believe he does and he wants that elusive second premiership then this is how it's done, lets face it he's not going to win a flag at Carlton. Perhaps one of those clubs who are around the verge of another flag like Hawthorn would be willing to give us a first rounder for a season or two from Judd. This reminds me of when we gave Geelong the draft pick they used to draft Chapman so that we could have a couple of seasons from Michael Mansfield, we all know how that turned out. So perhaps pick 18-14 for a guy on the verge of retirement would be an enormous win and perhaps a win/win as there are few more deserving to have a second premiership to their name than Judd, even if it's not with us. Be nice to bend one of these top teams over and steal a good pick off them for one.

Lucas and Watson might have trade value but it would be weak. You would hope that there would be clubs out there willing to take a punt on them and hope they can get something out of them. Would other clubs give us something for our mistakes? These guys are more likely to be bundled with a pick to get a player who is wanting to come home. You never know who is willing to take these guys, we chased docherty hard, a high first rounder with just 14 games under his name, that looks a win, you never know who might rate these guys.

Mclean, He's still got reasonable footy left in him and who knows, we were silly enough to give away a highish first rounder for him, maybe another club is willing to give us something for him. He still has some footy left in him but not alot. Will be gone in a few years I recon and now is our chance to get something for him before he retires. Trade him out, bring in Graham full time, use the draft pick on a kid with potential.

Armfield, has maybe 3 good seasons or seasons in general left in him, is just a battler, if we could get something, anything at all, I suggest that we go for it.

That is how you turn Carlton around. Extra picks takes pressure off the recruiter, if he's throwing up between two players he now just takes both. We don't have to target types we target every type. If we did trade hard and got a heap of picks it would be the move that makes or breaks us. In years time we'd either be talking about how it was the year that won us the premiership, or we'd be miserably blaming Rogers about stuffing up our recruiting and drafting the wrong players.

We have to back our recruiting department. We have to take the risks and be bold. We have to do this or it will just be more of the same for us.

This is a true test of our list management because this is what should happen at the season's end. This is what I want to see from Mick, Macca and Rogers.

This would be more of the ruthless, do anything for success Carlton of old. Not the less conservative Carlton that we have been used to over the last 14 years.

 

[marleyblue]

I think the interesting trade option is Walker - he would be a loss but he would have reasonable currency and i imagine he'd be worth at least mid-high 2nd round pick, maybe higher for a team contending. It would be an unpopular decision but if we want to turn things around, we need to make some tough calls

 

[The Edukator]

agree on large parts of your post but no one will trade for Judd and I reckon he'd rather retire than swap clubs. disagree on trading both ruckmen. this leaves carlton with no one capable and no backup to wood.

 

[FoeverBlues]

I think we may as well have challenged for the flag, at leas a bit more strongly if our drafting was better, you at least need one good player coming in per year, our drafting from 2009-2011 was worse than our drafting when we were penalised from the AFL.

Penalised years
Kade Simpson, Brad Fisher. - 2002
Andrew Walker, Jordan Bannister - 2003

Bad drafting stretch
Lucas - 2009
Watson, McInness - 2010
Rowe, Buckley (F/S) - 2011
There were bad drafting years prior to this that hurt us like 2007 and 2004 (bad draft), but this stretch is what hurt us from challenging for the flag and is why we are on a big decline from 2012 to the present.

Really agree that getting picks inside the top 40 is the go, any first rounders would be gold. I think it's possible but these decisions, while they could be very fruitful, would be unpopular but must be done to get us back on track as our holes are many and our quality is low.


Trading Strategy

We all talk about aggressive trading and being proactive at trade period but what does that actually mean? It means trading those players that we can afford to lose and trading guys who can really play. It means trading some fan favorites and making some unpopular decisions for the good of the club and it's future.
All these poor drafting efforts

Firstly you would trade both Warnock and Kreuzer, not either, both! Both might be highly rated because one gets a lot of hitouts and the other was a highly rated junior who has a tenancy for having a go but offers little else. Might over price them a little at trade week particularly as both should have plenty of footy ahead of them though injuries may suggest other wise. We promote Wood and draft a young ruckman, ideally you'd love to draft Peter Wright and use the two draft picks you gain from the trade to pick up other good young players which we so desperately need.

Secondly, Garlett. He's had some very good seasons which gives him trade value and he's young but lets face it he's not mentally there at times and this year it's been most of the time. I think he'd have some good trade value, pick 30 odd (plus maybe a player), possibly better if there's more interest.

Robinson and Bell - Some are waiting for them to improve, it's not really happening this is their best and they are just good average battlers, both can play a bit and are young and this gives them value. They are hard nuts and plenty of teams are after this. With Cripps, Holman, Curnow and Graham coming on we can replace them easily. Again here are good picks waiting for us to grab with ordinary inconsistent poorly skilled players. You might get pick 30-40 for these guys and if it's a good draft you can still pick players from here. Not sure I'd trade both though as we do need some depth.

Judd, most people wouldn't see this as as option and maybe it isn't but if Judd has more footy left in him which I believe he does and he wants that elusive second premiership then this is how it's done, lets face it he's not going to win a flag at Carlton. Perhaps one of those clubs who are around the verge of another flag like Hawthorn would be willing to give us a first rounder for a season or two from Judd. This reminds me of when we gave Geelong the draft pick they used to draft Chapman so that we could have a couple of seasons from Michael Mansfield, we all know how that turned out. So perhaps pick 18-14 for a guy on the verge of retirement would be an enormous win and perhaps a win/win as there are few more deserving to have a second premiership to their name than Judd, even if it's not with us. Be nice to bend one of these top teams over and steal a good pick off them for one.

Lucas and Watson might have trade value but it would be weak. You would hope that there would be clubs out there willing to take a punt on them and hope they can get something out of them. Would other clubs give us something for our mistakes? These guys are more likely to be bundled with a pick to get a player who is wanting to come home. You never know who is willing to take these guys, we chased docherty hard, a high first rounder with just 14 games under his name, that looks a win, you never know who might rate these guys.

Mclean, He's still got reasonable footy left in him and who knows, we were silly enough to give away a highish first rounder for him, maybe another club is willing to give us something for him. He still has some footy left in him but not alot. Will be gone in a few years I recon and now is our chance to get something for him before he retires. Trade him out, bring in Graham full time, use the draft pick on a kid with potential.

Armfield, has maybe 3 good seasons or seasons in general left in him, is just a battler, if we could get something, anything at all, I suggest that we go for it.

That is how you turn Carlton around. Extra picks takes pressure off the recruiter, if he's throwing up between two players he now just takes both. We don't have to target types we target every type. If we did trade hard and got a heap of picks it would be the move that makes or breaks us. In years time we'd either be talking about how it was the year that won us the premiership, or we'd be miserably blaming Rogers about stuffing up our recruiting and drafting the wrong players.

We have to back our recruiting department. We have to take the risks and be bold. We have to do this or it will just be more of the same for us.

This is a true test of our list management because this is what should happen at the season's end. This is what I want to see from Mick, Macca and Rogers.

This would be more of the ruthless, do anything for success Carlton of old. Not the less conservative Carlton that we have been used to over the last 14 years.

Just imagine:

2010 J Darling instead of Watson - I not writing Watson off yet but think that Darling would be a better fit due to more confident, driven, determine type, Watson needs lots of love and development (we are way behind in this)
2009 Josh Kennedy (Hawk) and Talia instead of McLean and Lucas - Kennedy - heathy, smart, big inside mid, wants game time and Talia was a best talent and need

2008 Rich instead of Yarran

 

[etsal1]

Just imagine:

2010 J Darling instead of Watson - I not writing Watson off yet but think that Darling would be a better fit due to more confident, driven, determine type, Watson needs lots of love and development (we are way behind in this)
2009 Josh Kennedy (Hawk) and Talia instead of McLean and Lucas - Kennedy - heathy, smart, big inside mid, wants game time and Talia was a best talent and need

2008 Rich instead of Yarran

Rich instead of Yarran? Surely you're having a laugh.
And you do realise Kennedy was a father son pick?
And by the way you could do what you just did with every club in the league.

 

[FoeverBlues]

Rich instead of Yarran? Surely you're having a laugh.
And you do realise Kennedy was a father son pick?
And by the way you could do what you just did with every club in the league.

Yes Rich vs Yarran was a laugh.

Yes i do know that Kennedy was a Hawk father and son who was traded to Swann for draft pick 39 in 2009, for more game time.

I was not criticise the club or recruiters but just say what if.

I think we can go back to 2009 as a turning point of where we went wrong with drafting and trading etc
1. We over committed to the McLean trade for a 1st rounder well before the trade period started.
2. We drafted a mid (Lucas) instead of a best available and best need KPD (Talia)

So in 2010 we went banana with three KPPs and two HBFs, just like a dog chasing its tails....

 

[etsal1]

Yes Rich vs Yarran was a laugh.

Yes i do know that Kennedy was a Hawk father and son who was traded to Swann for draft pick 39 in 2009, for more game time.

I was not criticise the club or recruiters but just say what if.

I think we can go back to 2009 as a turning point of where we went wrong with drafting and trading etc
1. We over committed to the McLean trade for a 1st rounder well before the trade period started.
2. We drafted a mid (Lucas) instead of a best available and best need KPD (Talia)

So in 2010 we went banana with three KPPs and two HBFs, just like a dog chasing its tails....

I agree with your comments about 2009 and 2010, and you could probably say the same for 2011.

But I think the debate between Yarran and Rich is over.

 

[gbatman]

agree on large parts of your post but no one will trade for Judd and I reckon he'd rather retire than swap clubs. disagree on trading both ruckmen. this leaves carlton with no one capable and no backup to wood.

Half reasonable Ruckmen are plentiful, it wouldn't be hard to get a hold of one, there are plenty of decent ruckmen always getting the chop or looking to move around, you would naturally grab another in the rookie draft or late national draft.

 

[gbatman]

agree on large parts of your post but no one will trade for Judd and I reckon he'd rather retire than swap clubs. disagree on trading both ruckmen. this leaves carlton with no one capable and no backup to wood.

Why wouldn't they trade for Judd? He's still got decent footy left in him, he is still capable of match winning bursts. It might be all Hawthorn for example need to get over a Sydney or Port. If a team recons they can get him for a year and that it's going to win them a grand final then a first round pick is more than worth it to achieve the ultimate goal in the game. Wouldn't be the first time a team has recruited a player who every media expert says is finished but isn't to help win a premiership (Stewart Dew to Hawthorn).

 

[etsal1]

Why wouldn't they trade for Judd? He's still got decent footy left in him, he is still capable of match winning bursts. It might be all Hawthorn for example need to get over a Sydney or Port. If a team recons they can get him for a year and that it's going to win them a grand final then a first round pick is more than worth it to achieve the ultimate goal in the game. Wouldn't be the first time a team has recruited a player who every media expert says is finished but isn't to help win a premiership (Stewart Dew to Hawthorn).

They probably wouldn't trade for Judd because 1. Judd most likely won't play on & 2. Judd said he won't be moving clubs again. He'll just retire if we try to trade him.

 

[gbatman]

They probably wouldn't trade for Judd because 1. Judd most likely won't play on & 2. Judd said he won't be moving clubs again. He'll just retire if we try to trade him.

That would be the reason this wouldn't work. The only reason I see Hawthorn as a good fit is, 1 they have a heap of that "buddy money" to offer someone, 2 The Brett Ratten connection, 3 Judd retires at the end of this year he would be retiring early because he does have good football left in him and he'b be retiring because we are rebuilding not because he's finished, 4 Judd has effectively had half a season off, this might freshen things up and change his mind, especially with a healthy finish to this season's end, 5 Wouldn't have to move, would be an easy transition, 6 Hawthorn might be Chris Judd away from a premiership, 7 Judd may have the hunger to play in a premiership before retiring, 8 Judd may get a big retirement package from Hawthorn, 9 Judd retires and we get nothing out of it, nothing at all but if he goes the trade option we get, lets say pick 17 or 18, that's something! He might like the idea of giving back to Carlton and in the form of a quality young player. Better than having no Judd, no success and no Kennedy.

People's minds change and people's minds can be changed. I don't think Judd has said anything about retiring at the end of this season, it's all been fabricated by the media. The media are out there retiring every player who turns 30 and isn't still starring. They tried to retire Craig Bradley for 5 years at least, eventually they give up like they did with Bradley, Harvey and Fletcher.

It would come down to Judd in the end but it would be great for all three parties. Hawks get a gun and maybe a flag, Judd gets a flag, to play in a winning team and a good pay cheque and we get the opportunity to draft a good young player. win win win.

 

[Dramoth]

blah blah blah... Everyone keeps rabbiting on about how we should have taken Darling instead of Watson, Talia instead of Lucas.

Guess what... if we had taken them... would they have really ended up being our saviors? Would they have really been the answers to all our dreams or would our shit development of tall players ****ed them over as well?

Out of all the talls we have taken in the draft (not the rookie draft)... how many of them have kicked on and become world beaters? 1... well 2 if you consider that Austin at the dogs seems to be going ok.

And how many years did it take Kennedy to get going after we shuffled him off to the wet toasts?

There is a better than even chance that Talia and Darling would have been tossed to the scrap heap as well by now considering our development history.

 

[mikeythemoocow]

It my son's 1st birthday tommorow, today we just found out the Mrs is having twins at Christmas so if the club could just continue being shit, for say the next 5 years it would suit me.

 

[Quazza]

good grief are we seriously entertaining the trading of one, Chris Judd?

I'd blow chunks, then cut myself, every time I saw him in another clubs jumper

 

[gbatman]

good grief are we seriously entertaining the trading of one, Chris Judd?

I'd blow chunks, then cut myself, every time I saw him in another clubs jumper

You don't succeed in the business world of the world of professional sport if emotion is a factor.

You don't get caught with nothing, gaining something from a loss is something that you must do if possible in this system to get anywhere.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

good grief are we seriously entertaining the trading of one, Chris Judd?

I'd blow chunks, then cut myself, every time I saw him in another clubs jumper

Listen to this week's podcast and then rage at Wookie with me!

 

[The_Wookie]

Listen to this week's podcast and then rage at Wookie with me!

pfft i never said we should trade him. I asked if him being in the side was keeping out guys like Graham and suggested he should consider retiring if that was the case.

 

[LordLucifer]

I think we may as well have challenged for the flag, at leas a bit more strongly if our drafting was better, you at least need one good player coming in per year, our drafting from 2009-2011 was worse than our drafting when we were penalised from the AFL.

Penalised years
Kade Simpson, Brad Fisher. - 2002
Andrew Walker, Jordan Bannister - 2003

Bad drafting stretch
Lucas - 2009
Watson, McInness - 2010
Rowe, Buckley (F/S) - 2011
There were bad drafting years prior to this that hurt us like 2007 and 2004 (bad draft), but this stretch is what hurt us from challenging for the flag and is why we are on a big decline from 2012 to the present.

Really agree that getting picks inside the top 40 is the go, any first rounders would be gold. I think it's possible but these decisions, while they could be very fruitful, would be unpopular but must be done to get us back on track as our holes are many and our quality is low.


Trading Strategy

We all talk about aggressive trading and being proactive at trade period but what does that actually mean? It means trading those players that we can afford to lose and trading guys who can really play. It means trading some fan favorites and making some unpopular decisions for the good of the club and it's future.
All these poor drafting efforts

Firstly you would trade both Warnock and Kreuzer, not either, both! Both might be highly rated because one gets a lot of hitouts and the other was a highly rated junior who has a tenancy for having a go but offers little else. Might over price them a little at trade week particularly as both should have plenty of footy ahead of them though injuries may suggest other wise. We promote Wood and draft a young ruckman, ideally you'd love to draft Peter Wright and use the two draft picks you gain from the trade to pick up other good young players which we so desperately need.

Secondly, Garlett. He's had some very good seasons which gives him trade value and he's young but lets face it he's not mentally there at times and this year it's been most of the time. I think he'd have some good trade value, pick 30 odd (plus maybe a player), possibly better if there's more interest.

Robinson and Bell - Some are waiting for them to improve, it's not really happening this is their best and they are just good average battlers, both can play a bit and are young and this gives them value. They are hard nuts and plenty of teams are after this. With Cripps, Holman, Curnow and Graham coming on we can replace them easily. Again here are good picks waiting for us to grab with ordinary inconsistent poorly skilled players. You might get pick 30-40 for these guys and if it's a good draft you can still pick players from here. Not sure I'd trade both though as we do need some depth.

Judd, most people wouldn't see this as as option and maybe it isn't but if Judd has more footy left in him which I believe he does and he wants that elusive second premiership then this is how it's done, lets face it he's not going to win a flag at Carlton. Perhaps one of those clubs who are around the verge of another flag like Hawthorn would be willing to give us a first rounder for a season or two from Judd. This reminds me of when we gave Geelong the draft pick they used to draft Chapman so that we could have a couple of seasons from Michael Mansfield, we all know how that turned out. So perhaps pick 18-14 for a guy on the verge of retirement would be an enormous win and perhaps a win/win as there are few more deserving to have a second premiership to their name than Judd, even if it's not with us. Be nice to bend one of these top teams over and steal a good pick off them for one.

Lucas and Watson might have trade value but it would be weak. You would hope that there would be clubs out there willing to take a punt on them and hope they can get something out of them. Would other clubs give us something for our mistakes? These guys are more likely to be bundled with a pick to get a player who is wanting to come home. You never know who is willing to take these guys, we chased docherty hard, a high first rounder with just 14 games under his name, that looks a win, you never know who might rate these guys.

Mclean, He's still got reasonable footy left in him and who knows, we were silly enough to give away a highish first rounder for him, maybe another club is willing to give us something for him. He still has some footy left in him but not alot. Will be gone in a few years I recon and now is our chance to get something for him before he retires. Trade him out, bring in Graham full time, use the draft pick on a kid with potential.

Armfield, has maybe 3 good seasons or seasons in general left in him, is just a battler, if we could get something, anything at all, I suggest that we go for it.

That is how you turn Carlton around. Extra picks takes pressure off the recruiter, if he's throwing up between two players he now just takes both. We don't have to target types we target every type. If we did trade hard and got a heap of picks it would be the move that makes or breaks us. In years time we'd either be talking about how it was the year that won us the premiership, or we'd be miserably blaming Rogers about stuffing up our recruiting and drafting the wrong players.

We have to back our recruiting department. We have to take the risks and be bold. We have to do this or it will just be more of the same for us.

This is a true test of our list management because this is what should happen at the season's end. This is what I want to see from Mick, Macca and Rogers.

This would be more of the ruthless, do anything for success Carlton of old. Not the less conservative Carlton that we have been used to over the last 14 years.

I somehow missed this interesting, thought-provoking & extremely forward-thinking post.

I don't agree with all of it (everyone has a different view of the world) but it is refreshing to read someone stating the not so obvious and also challenging conventional thinking.

Trading both Kreuzer & Warnock is a really interesting one, I'm not a huge fan of Warnock's so that one is easy but Kreuzer is more a part of the fabric of the club. He knocked back some big offers from GWS etc to jump ship and it may have a rather significant impact on the overall morale of the list if he was sent packing now. If there was an offer to good to refuse, then it would at least make it easier to rationalise amongst the minions.

Garlett, Robinson & Bell have nearly run out of a brownie points and it wouldn't surprise me to see all three offloaded later this year.

Judd won't be traded, he will either play one more season for us or retire.

Lucas & Watson are on the chopping block and their value at the trade table diminishes further every week they are not playing seniors.

McLean has no trade value and is taking the place of a promising junior whilst Armfield's value would be extremely minimal.

The player activity at the end of this year is going to be heavily scrutinised more than it has been for some time given we have a new coach, new president, new CEO (hopefully by then) and re-signed our recruiting guy for the long-term.

The strategy they implement is one aspect (cull or trade or FA etc) and who they bring in and out as well. I'm really looking forward to it actually as it will give a clear indication of how serious we are about turning around our onfield endeavours.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

pfft i never said we should trade him. I asked if him being in the side was keeping out guys like Graham and suggested he should consider retiring if that was the case.

I didn't mean it seriously Wookie. You know I heart you.