Opinion The Rebuild Thread

[Just Kreuzing]

Ed's disposal is as bad as anyone at the club.

Shows up more when at the ground and watching live, the amount of times he either kicked to our disadvantage or hand balled and put team mates under pressure was incredible. Was it he who tried to handball whilst laying on the ground late in the game to someone running past and stuffed it up ??

There is a reason some of our blokes get it in the clear 20 to 30 times per week, and I dont care how the stats read and disposal efficiency etc.

He is good in tight and competing for the contested ball most times but he just hurts so much with skill and decision making, tends to halt our momentum too often with dinky little sideways or backwards handballs.

 

[Monkey King]

I am surprised you can't have some understanding of where people are coming from.

We get flogged by 80 points by Essendon and then, instead of showing a bit of grunt and passion, we get done by Melbourne.

Of course I understand why supporters are not happy with what's happened. I am not happy with what's happened. But how you manage yourself during difficult times is often more important than the difficult times themselves. And that's what I don't understand.

Let me ask a question. Do you want our club to fall apart after this loss, or regroup? I think Gandhi put it nicely when he said "be the change you want to see in the world". As supporters, rather than turning on the club or players, I'd rather see us disappointed, but united in our determination to turn things around.

 

[T2B_]

Okay so his disposal aint great, far from it, but I still standby my general comments about him.

Thing is, even the so called better ball users in our team can pull off absolute howlers. I reckon put the best field kick in the comp in our team and sometimes they would still be made to look very average.

Reason? Our teamwork, work rate and presenting. With no one running hard enough to create options and good options at that, even the better kicks are going to struggle to hit a target.

Now, players who struggle to hit targets 20-30m away under no pressure... not much helping them, but I'm sure they will be weeded out in time.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Once you start compromising on the minimum standards you will allow in the club then the list will end up full of mediocre players like we have right now.

He has to go - end of story !!

Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will this team be. You are cutting off your nose to spite your face when you want to get rid of one of a handful of players who show 100% commitment to getting the best out of themselves and working for their teammates, given this is precisely what is killing us at the moment.

Curnow has probably been the biggest improver in this side over the last couple of seasons. His stats as a run with players stack up quite well against genuine midfielders.

Curnow averages 23 disposals, 9 contested possessions, 2.2 clangers, 5.5 marks, 7.5 tackles in our four losses this year. His efficiency % of 68.5% could be a couple of points higher but he is definitely following inside mids a lot so his own efficiency is going to be around their mark. He is equal 29th in terms of AFL fantasy points (for those who like such stats) and because he is so fit, he doesn't get as much of a break as some mids do, having 91.5% game time. He has deficiencies but even premiership sides have deficiencies. Right now, in this team, he's almost beyond reproach.

He craps all over Crowley's 2 games so far this year and has been better than McCaffer too, yet these guys get the red carpet rolled out in discussions.

 

[rp84]

Lucas & Watson are part of the future ??
I admire your support & loyalty but it's time to take off your navy-blue glasses.

I like the effort of the poster but realistically only the youngest players might be green.

Most of our list will not play in a prelim let alone win a flag.

We need a massive restructure and reboot. Stop recruiting flashy soft ***** and draft players with leadership potential with all of our top picks.

Gibbs must go. Isn't in the best 50 of th comp. Isnt worth more than 400k. Let him go. Get a first rounder for him and save the money.

Throw cash at the young guns of gcs and gws. Build a list of elite hard 18-23 year olds.

Our next window is 5-10 years away.

 

[AB_Blue]

mate your hard on simpson ... the older player setting an example

judd can make his own call

agree on carrazzo, who looked v slow yesterday ... ellard & curnow are similar types

not sure on waite ... we are so weak down the spine think we need to keep him until some younger KP players develop ... rowe is not the answer

Sorry didn't mean to sound like I was bagging them, especially simmo. Just that we don't have anyone to replace these players long term

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Lucas & Watson are part of the future ??
I admire your support & loyalty but it's time to take off your navy-blue glasses.

You are going to have to allow people their opinions, especially when nobody knows the future.

Don't make me pull out the Callan Beasy card .... again.

 

[Cringle]

Lucas isn't all that bad. Good runner. Dangerous in attack. Just needs to dramatically improve his defensive running. Like most of the team.

 

[rp84]

Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will this team be. You are cutting off your nose to spite your face when you want to get rid of one of a handful of players who show 100% commitment to getting the best out of themselves and working for their teammates, given this is precisely what is killing us at the moment.

Curnow has probably been the biggest improver in this side over the last couple of seasons. His stats as a run with players stack up quite well against genuine midfielders.

Curnow averages 23 disposals, 9 contested possessions, 2.2 clangers, 5.5 marks, 7.5 tackles in our four losses this year. His efficiency % of 68.5% could be a couple of points higher but he is definitely following inside mids a lot so his own efficiency is going to be around their mark. He is equal 29th in terms of AFL fantasy points (for those who like such stats) and because he is so fit, he doesn't get as much of a break as some mids do, having 91.5% game time. He has deficiencies but even premiership sides have deficiencies. Right now, in this team, he's almost beyond reproach.

He craps all over Crowley's 2 games so far this year and has been better than McCaffer too, yet these guys get the red carpet rolled out in discussions.

I love curnow. Burns it a bit, but is close to our bet player over the last 25 matches. One would think his ceiling is very high going on rapid improvement. Elite fitness and defensive skills. Finds it a lot. A lot to like. One of the few senior players I want to keep.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Lucas isn't all that bad. Good runner. Dangerous in attack. Just needs to dramatically improve his defensive running. Like most of the team.

I suspect he'd be a better player in a team that works harder for each other. Our young blokes are second guessing all day long knowing they are going to get crucified on their own if they stuff up.

 

[Red Bull]

Having listened to Kernahan yesterday , Mckay today , and Swann numerous times in the past on radio , its clear this is where the problem starts .

These guys either
A : Have no bloody idea what makes / how to run , a competitive AFL club

Or more alarmingly

B: Are trying desperately to cover thier own arses and save themselves all at the clubs expense .

Name the last decision these guys got right ??
They have cruelled the club at every turn !!
Thier performance in running the club is on the table for all to see !!

I hate Tim Watsons guts !! ...
But he is right when he states ... the fish rots at the head first !!

 

[Vic Vinegar]

From an administrative point of view, Carlton has two problems:

a) It a boys club. Specifically the 1995 boy's club. Kernahan and McKay (and formerly Ratten) are only the beginning of the influence former Carlton players have over the club. Not to mention the board, which has to be the worst performing board in recent memory. Take Matheson's pokies profits out of the mix and we would be a basket case again. And why, oh why, is Jeannie Pratt our vice president? Nepotism anyone?

b) The club still thinks it can buy its way out of trouble, whether through amassing high picks or through buying coaches/administrators/players. Virtually no effort has been made on proper research and development. Wayne Hughes buggers up the recruiting? Why not just replace him with his understudy? That will do. He must interview well, that's enough, surely?

Even if we rebuild, there is no guarantee that will work with the current attitude our club has. "We are Carlton, **** the rest" sound nice for a catchphrase, but the fact is the "rest" are now streets ahead of where we are.

 

[BlueTongue]

Lucas & Watson are part of the future ??
I admire your support & loyalty but it's time to take off your navy-blue glasses.

I don't see Lucas as part of of the future. He is a receiver with minimal footy smarts who turns the ball over more often than not by either not knowing when /how to dispose of it, or by poor disposal. Watson i DO see as part of our future, as soon as somebody realizes he isn't going to get any faster, and plays him at Full back. Jammo needs to take over CHB as he loves to run and break the lines on occasion, and is smarter reading the play coming in. Watson should be used at FB to make use of his assets, booming kick-ins and good one on one play.

 

[kickballfoot]

I'd trade Walker for a top 30 pick if you could get it. (Not sure of contract status though)

A horrible leader IMO, never tackles, poor defensively and always seems to point the
finger at others. Sets a poor example for the young guys.

 

[Azul]

Watson i DO see as part of our future, as soon as somebody realizes he isn't going to get any faster, and plays him at Full back.

How many slow full forwards exist in the league? Not many where MW isn't exposed on a lead.

He'd beat Podsiadly, Gumbleton and Jono Brown in a footrace but they're all over the hill.

 

[LordLucifer]

You are going to have to allow people their opinions, especially when nobody knows the future.

Don't make me pull out the Callan Beasy card .... again.

I'll never escape that one either ................ you are the only person who picks me up on it too.

 

[BlueTongue]

How many slow full forwards exist in the league? Not many where MW isn't exposed on a lead.

He'd beat Podsiadly, Gumbleton and Jono Brown in a footrace but they're all over the hill.

Yeah but in a one-on-one contest in the square he'd be a good chance. How many FB's full stop can beat a leading forward when it's delivered nicely into space? Besides, the game (at AFL Level) has gone past that now since the flood was introduced. It's more about a spread of goals from mids/forwards.

I'd rather see Jammo chop it off (and potentially rebound) through reading the play, than the ball making it all the way to the square anyway.

...Besides, Jammo's shoulders wouldn't cop so much at CHF

 

[rp84]

Of all the sliding doors moments in the last 8 years, we have lost out on almost every one.

 

[LanceRomance]

Of all the sliding doors moments in the last 8 years, we have lost out on almost every one.

Judd

 

[BlueTongue]

Agree with this. Some will see him as list clogger but I'd have him in nearly any side and I think he's pretty much completely replaced Carrazzo now, at least as far as his playing abilities goes.

Ed is a beast who will run all day, tackles, stops his man and is really improving his offensive game. Disposal will never be amazing but far from worst. Put him in a better side than our current one and we will truly appreciate the best of Ed Curnow.

Can't fault this. Ed needs to be kept. He'd be good at any of the top sides, it's just that we have a lot more with poor footskills than most other clubs.

 

[mikeythemoocow]

I still find it worrying how Luke Williams left the recruiting department only 6 months after joining. Not poached by another club, just quit.

 

[GoBlues!]

Most of our list will not play in a prelim let alone win a flag. We need a massive restructure and reboot. Stop recruiting flashy soft ***** and draft players with leadership potential with all of our top picks. Gibbs must go. Isn't in the best 50 of th comp. Isnt worth more than 400k. Let him go. Get a first rounder for him and save the money.

Throw cash at the young guns of gcs and gws. Build a list of elite hard 18-23 year olds. Our next window is 5-10 years away.

Agree. Who knows, if we can recruit wisely over the next 2/3 years and secure a couple of quality KPP, get lucky with a couple of Father-Son picks (eg. Silvagni or Bradley) and combine it with half of our current list we might have the basis of a decent list.

It might be wishful thinking but looking back at Geelong and the Hawks of the early to mid 2000's it seems they were able to recruit a core of quality players in a 4-5 year period with good draft picks, smart recruiting and in Geelong's case some great Father-Son pickups with Ablett and Scarlett, that set the teams up nicely.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Our list's arc peaked in 2011, and for want of a better run with injuries we may have snuck a flag at the time. That's just how it goes. We put together a decent (not great) side - coming off as low a base as is possible, but luck was against us. The Saints aren't any better off than we are, and they had a lot more going for them this last decade than we ever did.

C'est la guerre.

We all know the club needs to turn over the list - so do the club, coach and players. That means moving on a bunch of senior players and fringe talents. In circumstances like that it's understandable players start thinking about their own games and not the team's. I agree it's important that the club not waste the opportunity - yes, opportunity. It's become a rare thing for us to have a top draft pick in an uncompromised draft - particularly one rich in talls.

Getting all pissy about our current situation won't make it happen any better or faster. Who here thought we were a flag threat this year? Who thought we were even a shoe-in for finals? I'd rather we bottom out and take the hard decisions than tread water like an unflushable turd. In the meantime, let's enjoy watching kids get experience and forget the margins. It won't make any difference if you don't.

 

[GoBlues!]

Our list's arc peaked in 2011, and for want of a better run with injuries we may have snuck a flag at the time. That's just how it goes. We put together a decent (not great) side - coming off as low a base as is possible, but luck was against us. The Saints aren't any better off than we are, and they had a lot more going for them this last decade than we ever did.

C'est la guerre.

We all know the club needs to turn over the list - so do the club, coach and players. That means moving on a bunch of senior players and fringe talents. In circumstances like that it's understandable players start thinking about their own games and not the team's. I agree it's important that the club not waste the opportunity - yes, opportunity. It's become a rare thing for us to have a top draft pick in an uncompromised draft - particularly one rich in talls.

Getting all pissy about our current situation won't make it happen any better or faster. Who here thought we were a flag threat this year? Who thought we were even a shoe-in for finals? I'd rather we bottom out and take the hard decisions than tread water like an unflushable turd. In the meantime, let's enjoy watching kids get experience and forget the margins. It won't make any difference if you don't.

Well said AD. I thought we were a middle of the table team (9th to 12th) based on our 11 wins last year and most of those against the bottom 8 clubs.

If we end up at the lower end of the ladder, then we need to make the most of it and secure some quality KPP.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Our list's arc peaked in 2011, and for want of a better run with injuries we may have snuck a flag at the time. That's just how it goes. We put together a decent (not great) side - coming off as low a base as is possible, but luck was against us. The Saints aren't any better off than we are, and they had a lot more going for them this last decade than we ever did.

C'est la guerre.

The Saints are not really our comparison. They made it to grand finals and were genuine flag contenders and they did it on the back of players recruited late 90s to early 00s. Our window was supposed to open up on the back of players recruited a few years after that. When our window was supposed to be similarly opened, we had already started to decline. We certainly weren't due to fall now.

It is a reality but harder to accept given the Saints had a realistic shot and after years of rebuilding, we never got that shot and now we have to do it all again.