Opinion The Rebuild Thread

[Mr.X]

Agree with the Pt Adelaide view.

Start at the top, clear out the dinosaur opinions from the mid 80's, and do it properly.
Move on the likes of Gibbs, Walker etc and take whats available. These players will not be there, and are simply not good enough to help Carlton become true contenders

It's embarrassing how the list was overated.

 

[mediumsizered]

With some posters wanting to cut the club off from the Pratt/Mathieson funding & knowing what this would do to the club financially in the immediate future, how would the club's members react to us taking the Hawthorn road i.e. selling home games for the long term? The trade-off for Hawks supporters losing 4 home games a season is a club that is financially strong off the field, with a large membership base topped up by Tasmanian members, & which has been extremely successful on-field.

The reality is our club is built on a foundation of wealthy backers who want some input into the club for their dollar & it would be very hard, nigh on impossible to fully replace the dollars we currently receive from these backers, in the Victorian corporate world as it is today. Admittedly Collingwood have done it (although one of the Pratt sons-in-law makes a regular healthy financial contribution to the club as part of being on the club's board), but I'm not confident we could achieve the same level of revenue growth. Hawthorn, as previously mentioned, have done it by drawing on Tassie's hunger for live AFL football, whilst Geelong are in the unique position of having the support of the largest regional city in Victoria, including the local council.

Personally I wish the club had beaten Hawthorn to the punch & got in on Tassie, or put their hand up for some of the financial largesse being offered by the AFL to get a piece of the Gold Coast action. As it sits now, we have left our run too late for such opportunities & if we are to ween ourselves off the funding from wealthy backers, we are going to have to find a new, untapped source of revenue to do so. What/where is this new, untapped source of revenue? I would be very interested in posters' thoughts.

 

[thylacine60]

Where is there left to sell games to now?

 

[Omega Blue]

I'm against a total rebuild and I'm sick of every opposition supporter and media commentator saying our players are crap. what we need is a coach who plays to our strengths, not one who wants us to play his way which he only won a premiership by rebuilding a list to play his style. We have a list that would thrive under a matty knights game style (yeah I went there) for the life of me I can't understand why we always go down the boundary.

In saying this footy can change on a week to week basis, there is no rule that says you can't win a premiership after a terrible year, port went from basket case to top 8 in an off season with no special tweaking.

 

[thylacine60]

I'm against a total rebuild and I'm sick of every opposition supporter and media commentator saying our players are crap. what we need is a coach who plays to our strengths, not one who wants us to play his way which he only won a premiership by rebuilding a list to play his style. We have a list that would thrive under a matty knights game style (yeah I went there) for the life of me I can't understand why we always go down the boundary.

In saying this footy can change on a week to week basis, there is no rule that says you can't win a premiership after a terrible year, port went from basket case to top 8 in an off season with no special tweaking.

disagree here

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Where is there left to sell games to now?

Manus Island.

 

[Erko Blue]

Where is there left to sell games to now?

How's the ground at Mawson Station looking?

 

[Omega Blue]

disagree here

okay a new coach is major tweaking but there playing list didn't change much bar Shultz and monfries

 

[thylacine60]

slushy

 

[The Flying Doormat]

I'm against a total rebuild and I'm sick of every opposition supporter and media commentator saying our players are crap. what we need is a coach who plays to our strengths, not one who wants us to play his way which he only won a premiership by rebuilding a list to play his style. We have a list that would thrive under a matty knights game style (yeah I went there) for the life of me I can't understand why we always go down the boundary.

In saying this footy can change on a week to week basis, there is no rule that says you can't win a premiership after a terrible year, port went from basket case to top 8 in an off season with no special tweaking.

There were 11 changes to Port's list at the end of 2012.

 

[thylacine60]

okay a new coach is major tweaking but there playing list didn't change much bar Shultz and monfries

Coach has another pre-season with the players, new ground, new sponsors, more bucks from the AFL

 

[The Flying Doormat]

okay a new coach is major tweaking but there playing list didn't change much bar Shultz and monfries

Schulz went to Port in 2010.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Where is there left to sell games to now?

Arden Street's looking good.

I'd happily sell a WC/Dockers home game to Subiaco over the next two years. Sheesh, we play better there than we do at Docklands.

 

[Mr.X]

Time to start wielding and cut out the dead wood

 

[thylacine60]

We'll miss you, Mr X.

 

[Omega Blue]

Shulz went to Port in 2010.

fair enough.... so they had less of a player turn over.

 

[Erko Blue]

slushy

Ahhhh, the good old days.

 

[Vic Vinegar]

okay a new coach is major tweaking but there playing list didn't change much bar Shultz and monfries

Port took the Warren Buffett approach and discreetly went after players like Schulz and Monfries (as well as Hinkley) who were experienced and had the runs on the board yet were not hugely valued out of their club and are reaping the dividends.

While we go after the high profile, expensive types like Thomas and Malthouse and wonder why we are 0-4.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

fair enough.... so they had less of a player turn over.

Delisted / Traded 2012

MITCH BANNER
TROY CHAPLIN
JARRAD IRONS
BEN JACOBS
JOHN McCARTHY*
DANYLE PEARCE
SIMON PHILLIPS
DAVID RODAN
STEVEN SALOPEK
JACOB SURJAN

Delisted / Traded 2013

NATHAN BLEE
NICK SALTER
DANIEL STEWART
MATT THOMAS
DANNY BUTCHER
JUSTIN HOSKIN
DARREN PFEIFFER

 

[In Judd we trust]

Delisted / Traded 2012

MITCH BANNER
TROY CHAPLIN
JARRAD IRONS
BEN JACOBS
JOHN McCARTHY*
DANYLE PEARCE
SIMON PHILLIPS
DAVID RODAN
STEVEN SALOPEK
JACOB SURJAN

Delisted / Traded 2013

NATHAN BLEE
NICK SALTER
DANIEL STEWART
MATT THOMAS
DANNY BUTCHER
JUSTIN HOSKIN
DARREN PFEIFFER

Wow I did not realise just how much of there list was turned over in 24 months!

Lets hope that is what we have started to do.

2013 Delisted/Traded

Luke Mitchell
Patrick McCarthy
Marcus Davies
Aaron Joseph
Rhys O'Keeffe
Frazer Dale
Andrew Collins
Nick Duigan (LTI/Retired)
Jeremy Laidler
Shaun Hampson
Eddie Betts (FA)

by the looks of that list we are looking at possibly a bigger turn over.

 

[Florimo]

Some very different opinions on whats need to fix us up, will throw in my 2c

1) Malthouse - I think he is doing ok, but he very underestimated the lack of heart we have in our 'mid-tier' of players. I would have thought he would be 'angry' enough to belt this out of them, but it seems they are too set in there ways. Kind of like Collingwoods 'rat-pack', and Bucks wanted to trade / delist anyone who wouldnt play for him. I think we have to go the same way. I would have preferred Roos as a coach, but Mick was probably #2, so as long as he is for the fight, happy to back him and let him torch the list of any of our list cloggers, mids that wont run both ways / block or tackle.

2) We admit we are now (and may have been in denial for a few years) a '2nd tier side', we dont have much to trade but lets get rid of them this year, get games into the ones we think might work out and if not de-list - You cant expect the world from Rookie Draft players - Casboult, Bell, Curnow etc - but if they work out they are a bonus eg Jamieson. Players like Watson, Lucas etc play them every game and if by the end of the season havnt show enough, delist or trade.

3) Dont resign Waite again - too old, too inconsistant, too un-discipled - play someone else and hope we can develop a good one

4) At Rookie draft time (or round 4 onwards) Sign up players from other leagues - Medal winners, best mid, leading goalkicker etc - long shots but they might come off

5) I dont think we have the balls to admit we made a mistake in making Murphy the captain, should have been Simpson and we are paying a price for it at the moment - Murph tries to speak up, but he is in a failing mid and getting the snot tagged out of him, he has enough to worry about without others looking to him for inspiration

6) Gibbs is my fave player, but not playing like a 600-800 player - - he is more an icing on the cake player, we are years from needing him. Let him go and hopefully get a Rnd 1

 

[invinciBlues]

If you are going to rebuild, there is no point in replacing Malthouse. The mistake was in recruiting Malthouse to put the icing on Ratten's cake, and regardless of subsequent revision, this is exactly how it was sold to us. Mick needs to mould players that know no other way but his way. Some of our guys were too far gone as far as teaching them to be defensive first but maintain their attacking flair. We've ended up with neither from them. Mick is probably the man for the rebuild. It just needed to be sold as such when he came even though nobody would have believed it. Just another two seasons of stagnation and going backwards while others get stronger. We now have to wait for the 2014/15/16 drafts and a couple of years to start coming on.

I feel we've already started down the path with Malthouse. Bringing in a different head coach now would just further compound our issues. For better or worse we're in for a penny, in for a pound with Mick.

I just want SOS at the club, in some capacity. He seems to have enjoyed the lime light during his stay at St Kilda as the defensive coach during their period of dominance and has performed exceeding well as the list manager of GWS since their inception.

Mind you, if he did say he wanted the top position and only the top position then I would have no qualms about telling Malthouse to **** off and let Silvagni have at it. But I dont think he wants the rigours of being the media focal point.

 

[Sam The Doc]

Tough job fixing our list now...There is just no trade value on it.

Do we get much for Simpson if he leaves at the end of the year? Give him a chance at the big stage elsewhere.

Wont get anything for Walker, just put him in the forward line...

 

[ESKIE]

Some very different opinions on whats need to fix us up, will throw in my 2c

1) Malthouse - I think he is doing ok, but he very underestimated the lack of heart we have in our 'mid-tier' of players. I would have thought he would be 'angry' enough to belt this out of them, but it seems they are too set in there ways. Kind of like Collingwoods 'rat-pack', and Bucks wanted to trade / delist anyone who wouldnt play for him. I think we have to go the same way. I would have preferred Roos as a coach, but Mick was probably #2, so as long as he is for the fight, happy to back him and let him torch the list of any of our list cloggers, mids that wont run both ways / block or tackle.

2) We admit we are now (and may have been in denial for a few years) a '2nd tier side', we dont have much to trade but lets get rid of them this year, get games into the ones we think might work out and if not de-list - You cant expect the world from Rookie Draft players - Casboult, Bell, Curnow etc - but if they work out they are a bonus eg Jamieson. Players like Watson, Lucas etc play them every game and if by the end of the season havnt show enough, delist or trade.

3) Dont resign Waite again - too old, too inconsistant, too un-discipled - play someone else and hope we can develop a good one

4) At Rookie draft time (or round 4 onwards) Sign up players from other leagues - Medal winners, best mid, leading goalkicker etc - long shots but they might come off

5) I dont think we have the balls to admit we made a mistake in making Murphy the captain, should have been Simpson and we are paying a price for it at the moment - Murph tries to speak up, but he is in a failing mid and getting the snot tagged out of him, he has enough to worry about without others looking to him for inspiration

6) Gibbs is my fave player, but not playing like a 600-800 player - - he is more an icing on the cake player, we are years from needing him. Let him go and hopefully get a Rnd 1

Good post florimo.

 

[No1Suspect]

Ffs! There is a glaringly obvious solution to this and I can't believe we haven't inquired about him!





Terry Wallace.