Opinion The Rebuild Thread

[Aphrodite]

It's exactly why TC people are annoyed about Jamo's long term deal - it's could be Carrots all over again.

Who cares about what they think over at TC!

 

[etsal1]

Who cares about what they think over at TC!

Given the way Carrots' long term deal on big bucks has turned out, they might have some merit re:Jamo.

 

[zeeCFC]

Who cares about what they think over at TC!

such a tribalist Aph

 

[Aphrodite]

such a tribalist Aph

Yep that's me.

 

[Aphrodite]

Given the way Carrots' long term deal on big bucks has turned out, they might have some merit re:Jamo.

Merit and TC in the same sentence ........ I don't think so!

 

[AlecDuncan]

Jarrad on his day is an exceptional footballer and sadly we have very little coming up to replace him so he doesn't have any real competition for his spot.

Fresh air would be competition enough given the form he's in.

 

[zeeCFC]

Andrew Carrazzo cementing his spot as a forced retiree today.

Andrew Walker has to turn his career around too.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

Gone: Carrazzo, Waite, Mclean, Bootsma, Duigan, Scotland, Watson, Warnock, Lucas.

Borderline: Garlett, White, McInnes, Bell, Armfield, Temay, Tuohy, Ellard, Cachia, Robinson (at least he has some heart), Judd (if he chooses to retire).

WTF has happened to: Walker, Henderson.

Shit list is utter, utter shit.

 

[93Bluebagger]

Gone: Carrazzo, Waite, Mclean, Bootsma, Duigan, Scotland, Watson, Warnock, Lucas.

Borderline: Garlett, White, McInnes, Bell, Armfield, Temay, Tuohy, Ellard, Cachia, Robinson (at least he has some heart), Judd (if he chooses to retire).

WTF has happened to: Walker, Henderson.

Shit list is utter, utter shit.

Carrots is contracted
Robinson was our BOG, he should be kept even if it's for depth
Hendo is unfit
Why is Temay borderline?

 

[zeeCFC]

Carrots is contracted
Robinson was our BOG, he should be kept even if it's for depth
Hendo is unfit
Why is Temay borderline?

Carrots: Rookie list him
Robinson: Agree
Hendo: Agree
Temay: The way we'll look to turn the list over he may be a casualty, just the reality of it.

 

[Silvagnis]

Gone: Carrazzo, Waite, Mclean, Bootsma, Duigan, Scotland, Watson, Warnock, Lucas.

Borderline: Garlett, White, McInnes, Bell, Armfield, Temay, Tuohy, Ellard, Cachia, Robinson (at least he has some heart), Judd (if he chooses to retire).

WTF has happened to: Walker, Henderson.

Shit list is utter, utter shit.

What a terrible post. Really need to take a step back and calm down before ranting.

Where do we find replacements with 18 teams looking for talent?

No team can cut all these players and replace them with the talent you find after the third round.

Carrazzo won't go.

 

[LordLucifer]

What a terrible post. Really need to take a step back and calm down before ranting.

Where do we find replacements with 18 teams looking for talent?

No team can cut all these players and replace them with the talent you find after the third round.

Carrazzo won't go.

Who cares where they come from ??

If we are being beaten by the bottom 4 teams now with these players we cannot possibly get any worse by drafting in a slab of youth and playing them all on a constant rotational basis next year.

Worrying about who is going to replace players in a team that constantly loses is simply nonsense.

 

[De Iulio2Wiggins]

What a terrible post. Really need to take a step back and calm down before ranting.

Where do we find replacements with 18 teams looking for talent?

No team can cut all these players and replace them with the talent you find after the third round.

Carrazzo won't go.

It's actually a very sensible post. Pumpy's not saying that we can dump all those players in a season. He's saying that our list is stuffed with VFL wonders, failed early round draft picks, failed trades, and a few very decent players who are starting to smell past their used-by.

There is no quick fix for this. We loaded up and the window is shut, and now we have to take our medicine.

With the rise of Melbourne, we are now very close to being the team with the worst round 1-3 recruiting/development record over the past decade. Nothing gets fixed until that gets acknowledged and fixed.

 

[gbatman]

We aren't much good, we are lacking in good footballers, it's scary but our coaching staff are actually getting the best out of what is an atrociously bad football side.

Our problems:
- Too slow.
- Ball handling is not good enough.
- forward line is not dangerous, there are no good tall targets and the rest are hot and cold, don't get enough goals or defensive pressure from small forwards.
- Midfield has too many passengers and one dimensional types.
- We have no real high possession accumulators in our team.
- Our small defenders are of really poor quality.
- Our ruckman is a very poor and stupid footballer.
- Our onballers lack the leg speed, ball winning ability and kicking quality to be real damaging.
- Our major ball winners aren't damaging enough with their possession.
- Our decision making is terrible.
- Not fit enough.
- Too many players who do not contribute week in week out.

This all comes back to our poor drafting, both drafting mediocre players with high picks, drafting players who can't play and making poor decisions on types at the draft table.

This is going to take a lot of turning around.

We've gotta draft well, we have to be aggressive come trade time.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

What a terrible post. Really need to take a step back and calm down before ranting.

Where do we find replacements with 18 teams looking for talent?

No team can cut all these players and replace them with the talent you find after the third round.

Carrazzo won't go.

Any 6 year old AusKicker at half time shows better skills and more heart than our excuse of a list.

Why bother retaining him? We have Curnow, Graham, Everitt, Armfield and Cachia who can all play inside/run-with roles. He's been pretty good through his career, nothing special. Would he still be on a Geelong list, or a Hawthorn list? Hanging on to players is part of our problem. We've debuted ONE player all year. Cats have debuted 9 or so. Hawks, Swans and Pies keep turning their list over. Our list is like a garden that hasn't seen a rake in years. It needs weeding and pruning and re-seeding.

 

[etsal1]

done with brock.

carrots needs to have a think about if he's up to it anymore.

sign menz, yazz and gibbs - and after that i don't care what happens.

 

[Silvagnis]

Who cares where they come from ??

If we are being beaten by the bottom 4 teams now with these players we cannot possibly get any worse by drafting in a slab of youth and playing them all on a constant rotational basis next year.

Worrying about who is going to replace players in a team that constantly loses is simply nonsense.

I do.

Who do we bring in for the dozen or so players he listed?

We can't play young players who don't deserve it.

You're underrating GWS who have performed well against the Hawks. They could easily be biting at the heels of the Suns this time next year.

You only want KPP who are 196 cms or taller...

Any 6 year old AusKicker at half time shows better skills and more heart than our excuse of a list.

Why bother retaining him? We have Curnow, Graham, Everitt, Armfield and Cachia who can all play inside/run-with roles. He's been pretty good through his career, nothing special. Would he still be on a Geelong list, or a Hawthorn list? Hanging on to players is part of our problem. We've debuted ONE player all year. Cats have debuted 9 or so. Hawks, Swans and Pies keep turning their list over. Our list is like a garden that hasn't seen a rake in years. It needs weeding and pruning and re-seeding.

Where do we find ready made replacements who can step in for all these players?

Answer that question and you can replace Wright, SOS, Rogers, Wells or Hine.

Cats have had four players debut this year. Lang, Bews, Hartman and Kersten. We turned over the list to bring in three draftees plus Docherty, Thomas and Everitt. Can't bring in kids if they aren't ready or injured.

It's actually a very sensible post. Pumpy's not saying that we can dump all those players in a season. He's saying that our list is stuffed with VFL wonders, failed early round draft picks, failed trades, and a few very decent players who are starting to smell past their used-by.

There is no quick fix for this. We loaded up and the window is shut, and now we have to take our medicine.

With the rise of Melbourne, we are now very close to being the team with the worst round 1-3 recruiting/development record over the past decade. Nothing gets fixed until that gets acknowledged and fixed.

Didn't the Demons bring in Vince, Cross and Dawes to get more veterans or experienced players?

Melbourne haven't risen off the back of young players.

Pumpy listed them all in one block.

It's an overreaction if you think we can cut every senior player like Melbourne did five years ago. No one can afford to bottom out. Plus there's no guarantee that finishing low and getting an earlier pick will hand you the best player. Only have to look at the players drafted after Kreuzer, Gibbs, Yarran and Murphy who were rated. We didn't reach for players with our picks.

Our list is a reflection of the drafts being compromised to build the Suns and Giants. There isn't enough talent out there to improve Carlton, Richmond, North, Essendon and the other mediocre teams. Other clubs have had just as many failures, but our overly critical fans expect us to nail every pick.

Thomas, Yarran, Henderson, Murphy, Gibbs and others are decent players who aren't near their use by date.

 

[LordLucifer]

You're underrating GWS who have performed well against the Hawks. They could easily be biting at the heels of the Suns this time next year.

You only want KPP who are 196 cms or taller...

Where do we find ready made replacements who can step in for all these players?

I'm not under-rating GWS at all but they have guys who have only been in the game two and a bit years yet they were able to account for us.

Either we get with the program or we better get used to this thing called losing.

Secondly, if you think undersized KPP then again, get used to being whipped. We need some tall timber with talent to go with some mid-sized (190-194) players as well.

Lastly, let's have a look at the state leagues, the country leagues, the players being held back at their current club, the various drafts, maybe some shrewd trades might be it too. In other words, let's get proactive like the Swans, the Hawks and the Cats have been for many years.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

You CAN'T delist/trade them all. That's NOT what I was inferring. What I was certainly STATING though is that all the players I listed DESERVE to be delisted/traded. Obviously we can't do it, but, with the exception of Robinson and Judd, none of the players I mentioned really deserve a starting 22 spot on any AFL team.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

We have some talented seniors and while it's hugely disappointing they are going to leave without a flag, we've just got to plan for our next shot.

That has to include our cohort of top picks in Murphy, Gibbs & Thomas and 2018 is probably the last chance we can hope for them all being collectively effectual. The list could look something like this heading into the 2018 season:

FB: Everitt (29) x Giles (23)

HB: Docherty (25) Henderson (29) Yarran (28)

C: Menzel (24) Bell (27) Graham (24)

HF: Murphy (31) x Holman (23)

FF: Thomas (31) Casboult (28) Buckley (25)

RR: Kreuzer (29) Cripps (23) Gibbs (29)

INT: Temay (24) Watson (26) McInnes (26) Curnow (29) Robinson (29) Garlett (29)

Our spine has been a concern for years and it has been terrible management that a projected spine continues to look this weak. We have four trade/draft periods to turn the above into a premiership team, addressing the spine has to be our first priority this year.

The next two off-season's are going to be critical for our future chances, once we lose the likes of Murph/Gibbs the impact of our poor drafting/player development over the past several years will hit us possibly the hardest as we will be left without a senior group.

The positive however is that last years off-season has shown we may now be up for the challenge.

 

[LordLucifer]

Our list is a reflection of the drafts being compromised to build the Suns and Giants. There isn't enough talent out there to improve Carlton, Richmond, North, Essendon and the other mediocre teams. Other clubs have had just as many failures, but our overly critical fans expect us to nail every pick.

What a load of utter crap, that is the biggest cop-out I've read in ages !!

Our list is a reflection of the under-resourced, under-performed & clearly un-talented recruiting structure we have had in place (thankfully Rogers is with us now). This list also has Hughes' fingerprint all over it, he has made some very poor choices over a number of years that has baffled everyone (Exhibit A : Lucas V Talia, Exhibit B : Watson V Darling).

 

[LordLucifer]

You CAN'T delist/trade them all. That's NOT what I was inferring. What I was certainly STATING though is that all the players I listed DESERVE to be delisted/traded. Obviously we can't do it, but, with the exception of Robinson and Judd, none of the players I mentioned really deserve a starting 22 spot on any AFL team.

Well said Pumpy !!

Some of those players may get a 'stay of execution' because a trade wasn't able to made or another player of the type could not be found or whatever.

The thing is, until all of the ones who are either out of their depth skill-wise or severely inconsistent in their output are removed from the club list and replaced then we are going to struggle.

GWS & GC are going to set a very high benchmark due to the draft concessions but they will come back to the field eventually as they lose a handful of players due to other clubs making their players obscene offers that cannot be refused. However, at the same time, other clubs will still be up there and competitive around them because they will manage their playing list way better than we could ever dream of.

 

[gbatman]

The club is going about the rebuild just fine, wont hurt us finishing lowly on the ladder this season and getting some higher picks.

Traded in three decent players last season and plenty of new kids.

Hopefully see much of the same at the end of this season, wouldn't mind seeing us take a more aggressive approach at the trade table and trade some bigger names for picks. At this stage our list can't get enough young talent into it.

Getting rid of the older players isn't the go, that never works. I can see us doing a similar thing with Waite that we did with Scotland last season, It looks like we are going to need Waite to keep playing even though he looks cooked.

We can afford to retire a few of the older players if we want. I think with the few already gone, there more than likely will be some delistings though so no pressure on the older players to retire.

A Paul Chapman/Michael Mansfield situation or two is what we need to really get going, where we aren't the team getting screwed so I would definitely be shopping some of our older players around.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

We aren't much good, we are lacking in good footballers, it's scary but our coaching staff are actually getting the best out of what is an atrociously bad football side.

Our problems:
- Too slow.
- Ball handling is not good enough.
- forward line is not dangerous, there are no good tall targets and the rest are hot and cold, don't get enough goals or defensive pressure from small forwards.
- Midfield has too many passengers and one dimensional types.
- We have no real high possession accumulators in our team.
- Our small defenders are of really poor quality.
- Our ruckman is a very poor and stupid footballer.
- Our onballers lack the leg speed, ball winning ability and kicking quality to be real damaging.
- Our major ball winners aren't damaging enough with their possession.
- Our decision making is terrible.
- Not fit enough.
- Too many players who do not contribute week in week out.

This all comes back to our poor drafting, both drafting mediocre players with high picks, drafting players who can't play and making poor decisions on types at the draft table.

This is going to take a lot of turning around.

We've gotta draft well, we have to be aggressive come trade time.

Soft. You didn't hard enough!

 

[De Iulio2Wiggins]

This list also has Hughes' fingerprint all over it, he has made some very poor choices over a number of years that has baffled everyone (Exhibit A : Lucas V Talia, Exhibit B : Watson V Darling).

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