Opinion The Rebuild Thread

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Surprised to hear that he have a fair bit of room in the ol' salary cap.

 

[FoeverBlues]

yep noted !

Not saying Port's success is solely off the back of the last two years but it has been a big part of it. Hinkley recruited players to suit his gameplan. They identified needs and went for the players they saw as best fit.
Agree Neade is a fringe player at this stage; Gray in his first season seems to go OK and Mitchell has played about six games this year after a solid 2013.
If you take out Wines, Impey, Monfries, White, Hombsch and Polec, Port would be sitting a fair few rungs lower on the ladder.

Enough just take out Wines, Polec and White

 

[etsal1]

Surprised to hear that he have a fair bit of room in the ol' salary cap.

By he do you mean we?

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

By he do you mean we?

... yes.

Yes, I do

 

[etsal1]

... yes.

Yes, I do

Is this space with or without Judd and others possibly retiring?

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Is this space with or without Judd and others possibly retiring?

I think we still have sizable room to move - it was mentioned in todays paper.

They will have more room in the salary cap this season, particularly if Judd retires

 

[etsal1]

I think we still have sizable room to move - it was mentioned in todays paper.

That could just be because the cap is increasing but you never know.

 

[ferrisb]

In my mind, list management phases scale goes from 1-10.

1 = chasing a premiership. strategy is topping up, swapping picks for established players. This strengthens your list in short term, but also ages your list and only makes sense if you have a real chance

10 = full rebuild. strategy is cleaning out. Trade out established players for picks. This weakens your list, but also 'youngens' your list. Short-term pain for long-term gain. In theory.

I think we all agree we are a helluva lot closer to 10 than 1. I am progressively downgrading my score through the season.

I know a lot of us are frustrated and want a major cleanout. But I would caution anyone advocating a 10/10 rebuild. It doesn't work. Look at Melbourne. They needed a cleanout, got rid of just about every senior player and were disgraceful for years. And years.

We have little trade value from our older or fringe players. You are only going to get value if you trade a Hendo or Yarran etc or let Gibbs walk (moot). I don't mind the Coll Shaw/Adams trade or the StK cashing in McEvoy. But you can't take out too much experience or talent at once.

Yes, our list needs a cleanup, but gutting the list will kill us for 10 years, not 2-3. Look at what GCS/GWS served up for a few years if you want to see what a list looks like without a core of decent/experienced players. Yes they are coming good now, but we don't have the luxury of 25 1st rnd draft picks....

Instead, I say we need more of last year. Canny pickups taking advantage of salary cap stretched clubs, go home factor, clubs desperate for something we have surplus of. These opportunities aren't there every year, but we need to ram home when they do. Maybe cashing in on a player here or there is ok. But not on a mass scale.

As they (sort of) say in the classics (well, Tropic Thunder), you never go full rebuild.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

To be a premiership team I reckon you need 5 A graders, 10 B graders and 10 C graders... A grade I would call possible All Australian calibre, top 50 in the comp..

Currently I would say that we have
A Grade - Murphy, Gibbs
B Grade - Carrazzo, Curnow, Henderson, Jamieson, Menzel, Simpson, Thomas, Walker, Yarran,
C Grade - Buckley, Casboult, Everitt, Docherty, Cripps, Garlett, Kruezar, Mclean, Robinson, Rowe, Tuoey, Warnock
D Grade - Arnfield, Giles, Lucas, McInnes, Watson, White, Arnfield, bell

From this I reckon its clear we are a long way off but probably not as far off as some may think, I reckon Menzel, Thomas, Docherty, Cripps, Kruezar & Henderson all have the ability to step up into A grade category. Our issue is with the C & D Graders who are 25+ they have basically reached there potential and are just clogging up the list, I am sure these are the players MM will try to move in the next 12 months.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

To be a premiership team I reckon you need 5 A graders, 10 B graders and 10 C graders... A grade I would call possible All Australian calibre, top 50 in the comp..

Currently I would say that we have
A Grade - Murphy, Gibbs
B Grade - Carrazzo, Curnow, Henderson, Jamieson, Menzel, Simpson, Thomas, Walker, Yarran,
C Grade - Buckley, Casboult, Everitt, Docherty, Cripps, Garlett, Kruezar, Mclean, Robinson, Rowe, Tuoey, Warnock
D Grade - Arnfield, Giles, Lucas, McInnes, Watson, White, Arnfield, bell

From this I reckon its clear we are a long way off but probably not as far off as some may think, I reckon Menzel, Thomas, Docherty, Cripps, Kruezar & Henderson all have the ability to step up into A grade category. Our issue is with the C & D Graders who are 25+ they have basically reached there potential and are just clogging up the list, I am sure these are the players MM will try to move in the next 12 months.

Agreed. Just takes a few players to take a step to a level they have already given us glimpses of. I'd throw Yarran into the potentially A grade category.

 

[ferrisb]

To be a premiership team I reckon you need 5 A graders, 10 B graders and 10 C graders... A grade I would call possible All Australian calibre, top 50 in the comp..

Currently I would say that we have
A Grade - Murphy, Gibbs
B Grade - Carrazzo, Curnow, Henderson, Jamieson, Menzel, Simpson, Thomas, Walker, Yarran,
C Grade - Buckley, Casboult, Everitt, Docherty, Cripps, Garlett, Kruezar, Mclean, Robinson, Rowe, Tuoey, Warnock
D Grade - Arnfield, Giles, Lucas, McInnes, Watson, White, Arnfield, bell

From this I reckon its clear we are a long way off but probably not as far off as some may think, I reckon Menzel, Thomas, Docherty, Cripps, Kruezar & Henderson all have the ability to step up into A grade category. Our issue is with the C & D Graders who are 25+ they have basically reached there potential and are just clogging up the list, I am sure these are the players MM will try to move in the next 12 months.

There are a few players on our list that I would give 'a' grade to. But it wouldn't be A-D....

Edit: stupid jokes aside, nice post!

 

[Dramoth]

Is Barker still our forward line coach? I'd be inclined to move him on as well.

Watching Waite (and Casboult) lead early and taking marks / shots for goal almost on the boundary is laughable. Is this a forward coached strategy or a stupid player leading too early and to the wrong spot? Go down the other end and Patton holds his place in the goal square, leads late and near straight up the ground, then marks 35-50 out. Patton doesn't get sucked in to go to the ball too early. Little experience by comparison but a lot smarter.

We have all year had the worst coached set up in the forward line. Rarely do we get a forward leading up the middle, or darting back to the middle for a mark. Once Waite, Casboult or Garlett leads in a direction toward the boundary they never switch back. Surely they've practiced to lead one direction and switch 90 degrees to the other? This basic stuff is done at Amateurs level. Menzel is the only player leading to good position and giving himself a better kick at goal. The remainder of our forwards work has me shaking my head almost weekly.

No wonder Hawthorn got rid of Barker a few years back.

Barker is now our defensive coach. Brad Green is our forwards coach apparently.

I would be looking at trying to get Brown in as our forwards coach if he is interested for next year.

 

[Dramoth]

We could have Balki Bartokomous at full forward and it wouldn't matter if our midfield was bolstered with more outside talent.

Is that Prouds alias these days?

 

[Dramoth]

Sorry, you may want to add Ebert (2011), Hombsch, Mitchell, Polec and to lesser degrees Sam Gray and Jake Neade. Good depth players that have copped long term injuries include Stevenson and Heath. Another one to watch out for is Mason Shaw - 20/o, 197 cms and 97 kgs, just starting to make his mark in the SANFL.
Just saying.

According to wiki, he has yet to debut. But we could play him at FF, Henderson at CHF and Casboult as the third tall forward/second ruckman.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

According to wiki, he has yet to debut. But we could play him at FF, Henderson at CHF and Casboult as the third tall forward/second ruckman.

SANFL debut about 3 weeks ago. Last two weeks has kicked 6 and 3 goals. Keep an eye on this kid.

 

[etsal1]

SANFL debut about 3 weeks ago. Last two weeks has kicked 6 and 3 goals. Keep an eye on this kid.

Gained 20kg since being drafted in 2012. Pretty impressive.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We could have Balki Bartokomous at full forward and it wouldn't matter if our midfield was bolstered with more outside talent.

Don't be ridiculous.

 

[Gavstar]

Interesting re Melbourne letting Frawley go and getting a top 4 draft pick an it "could use the spare $800,000 in salary cap space to offer an uncontracted tall like Sam Rowe, Matt Spangher or Levi Casboult $1 million over three years to hold up an end and still save money on the deal"

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...ion-to-the-draft/story-e6frf3e3-1226965414995

 

[thylacine60]

Don't be ridiculous.

Please remember where you are.

 

[Dramoth]

Please remember where you are.

You mean that we arent in a serious football forum where we discuss in minute detail the ins and outs of the club?

Where are we then?

 

[gbatman]

What's this Peter Wright like? Anyone been watching the U18s? Seems impressive from what I've read. If we could get our hands on a big guy like this you'd be tempted to promote Wood and trade on Warnock and Kreuzer for draft picks. Might be just the thing the club needs, especially if he turned out good and you happened to pick up two good players with the picks you got.

We need those extra draft picks or we're going nowhere and slowly and we are in a very bad way. we don't need any more B grades, we need young potential A graders. Established A graders are not an option either, they would cost too much an may not last long enough. Would be open to interest in Robinson, Bell, Mclean, Garlett, Lucas and Watson too. We offered Bootsma around last year, that's never going to work, you need to offer players who can play but aren't your cream or required players. Hampson trade was genious, that sort of thing or better.

Big guys who can mark and kick, small guys who can run, are tough, can get a lot of it and have good skills, defenders who can defend, forwards who can kick goals. Less of what we already have, more of that.

I just feel we need something special to revive us (Port Adelaide style). I don't think going to the draft and getting the standard round 1, 2 and 3 picks plus a few rookies is going to do it.

 

[Dramoth]

SANFL debut about 3 weeks ago. Last two weeks has kicked 6 and 3 goals. Keep an eye on this kid.

You are going to have to keep us updated with this kid.

I reckon that we need to look at trying to get either an established (read GWS) tall forward or getting a ready to go one out of the draft. I think that we also need to stop using the rookie draft for picking up mids and start using that exclusively as a repository for tall forwards and defenders. We need to use the rookie draft to get some project talls, see how they go on the list for a year... if they dont work out, cut them and if they look ok, give them another year.

Get the best available tall forward (if we dont end up trading our first round pick for a GWS kiddy) with either our first or second round pick and go for mids with the rest of our picks.

 

[Dramoth]

What's this Peter Wright like? Anyone been watching the U18s? Seems impressive from what I've read. If we could get our hands on a big guy like this you'd be tempted to promote Wood and trade on Warnock and Kreuzer for draft picks. Might be just the thing the club needs, especially if he turned out good and you happened to pick up two good players with the picks you got.

We need those extra draft picks or we're going nowhere and slowly and we are in a very bad way. we don't need any more B grades, we need young potential A graders. Established A graders are not an option either, they would cost too much an may not last long enough. Would be open to interest in Robinson, Bell, Mclean, Garlett, Lucas and Watson too. We offered Bootsma around last year, that's never going to work, you need to offer players who can play but aren't your cream or required players. Hampson trade was genious, that sort of thing or better.

Big guys who can mark and kick, small guys who can run, are tough, can get a lot of it and have good skills, defenders who can defend, forwards who can kick goals. Less of what we already have, more of that.

I just feel we need something special to revive us (Port Adelaide style). I don't think going to the draft and getting the standard round 1, 2 and 3 picks plus a few rookies is going to do it.

from what I heard, Melbourne is chasing him... and with Jonno Brown retiring, it looks like Brisbane is going to chase him as well.

If he somehow managed to fall to our first round pick (and we havent traded it out for a GWS kiddie), I would hope that we jump all over him. He seriously looks like a ready to go forward.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Get the best available tall forward (if we dont end up trading our first round pick for a GWS kiddy) with either our first or second round pick and go for mids with the rest of our picks.

Disagree, looking at the list we have to go for best available. We've got holes all over the place, and this is an ageing list.

Quite frankly, we've gone full circle back to 2007.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Agree with taking best avail. with Brisbane, Stkilda and Melbourne all likely to take talls there might just be a midfield superstar being over looked because of the clubs need for KPP.