Analysis The Rebuilds of Carlton and Fremantle and their future prospects

Who has the better prospects?


  • Total voters
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Opine

Premium Gold
Aug 30, 2018
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He bulked up this season and couldn't move, possibly injury related, I just see the bigger guys run from stoppage better than him, He doesn't need to be as big as he was this year IMO, less weight has to be better for his back and legs in the long run?

Anyway he's a watch for me because a lot of people have given him grief the past 2 seasons and think his best is behind him, I think he can reach his best again.
I had this very discussion with an Essendin supporter relative of mine last year. Without my blue blinkers: his bulk’s been his strength, he's never been a super spreader with notable pace. whatever spreading ability he had in past is more than he’ll have in future, doubt the game gets slower. I think his best is behind him, but he could still be reasonably good.
 
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Isn't Zac Dawson running your clubs next generation academy? LoL
I don't know what Zac Dawson is like working with young players. Seems like going for low hanging fruit if you're judging his ability in this area off his playing career though.
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
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Zac Dawson is a really smart guy off field.

No idea what his coaching credentials are, but he was always pretty underrated as a defender and got the absolute most out of his ability. Incredible effort really to hold down a key position spot and beat some of the best key forwards with his wiry build.
 

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cakewalk06

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Aug 22, 2006
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I hate the Blues but.....

with a core of players including Cripps, Weitering, Walsh, McKay, Curnow, Martin, Cerra, Saad, Zach Williams, De Konig, there is no way they should miss the finals. If they don't play finals in 2022, they will have had a terrible run with injuries or, in cricket terms, they have a very long tail.
 

Juddernaut08

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 8, 2007
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I hate the Blues but.....

with a core of players including Cripps, Weitering, Walsh, McKay, Curnow, Martin, Cerra, Saad, Zach Williams, De Konig, there is no way they should miss the finals. If they don't play finals in 2022, they will have had a terrible run with injuries or, in cricket terms, they have a very long tail.
We have (or do) have a very long tail - but this was partially a product of not having a coherent system for the roleplayers to plug into (Richmond were the best at this for awhile).

Hopefully with a combination of bringing in best 22 to push the fringe players out (guys like Cerra/Hewett/fit Curnow) will push out guys like Cottrell/Gibbons/SPS/Casboult who all got a lot of gametime ... but Voss also needs to find a way to have our remaining duds like Newnes to contribute.
 

RonnieRaven

Mature age recruit
Jun 12, 2018
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Swings and roundabouts.

No reasonable team would pay Pick 2 for Weller, the Dockers strongarmed a desperate Gold Coast Suns.

The Dockers then got overcompensated for Hill, who was gunning for a career contract.

Imagine the Dockers without Brayshaw and Serong having just lost Cerra?

I don’t think we’re too fussed about
Swings and roundabouts.

No reasonable team would pay Pick 2 for Weller, the Dockers strongarmed a desperate Gold Coast Suns.

The Dockers then got overcompensated for Hill, who was gunning for a career contract.

Imagine the Dockers without Brayshaw and Serong having just lost Cerra?

I don’t think we’re too fussed about who we’re compared to at this point in time. The Dockers only won a couple more games and beat as many finals-placed teams.

Every year there is a general shuffle, but while neither team is contending the finishing positions are pretty redundant.

I’d be surprised to see Freo finish above the Blues next year, but stranger things have happened.
as I stated we got compensated but it puts the club back further in the rebuild.
That is all, all things considered I’m happy where freo are at but need to nail the draft and win 50%+ of games in 2022.
 

Hazardinho

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Dec 6, 2020
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I hate the Blues but.....

with a core of players including Cripps, Weitering, Walsh, McKay, Curnow, Martin, Cerra, Saad, Zach Williams, De Konig, there is no way they should miss the finals. If they don't play finals in 2022, they will have had a terrible run with injuries or, in cricket terms, they have a very long tail.
I hate this entitlement that a team should or shouldn't deserve something, if they make finals its because they deserve to, if they don't then they don't. Football isn't about having the best players in each position, or having the best individuals. It's about building a culture and system that makes up for a players deficiencies and maximises their strengths, which in turn creates a competitive side. Carlton in recent history aren't entitled to anything, so let's see how Voss does in his first season, on paper he's got a good squad but what's on paper doesn't win games at the highest level.
 

Juddernaut08

Norm Smith Medallist
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I hate this entitlement that a team should or shouldn't deserve something, if they make finals its because they deserve to, if they don't then they don't. Football isn't about having the best players in each position, or having the best individuals. It's about building a culture and system that makes up for a players deficiencies and maximises their strengths, which in turn creates a competitive side. Carlton in recent history aren't entitled to anything, so let's see how Voss does in his first season, on paper he's got a good squad but what's on paper doesn't win games at the highest level.
Couldn't agree more. We have the starpower but where's the high effort, hard culture that champion teams need?

Voss' work will be with the B-graders (and below) and getting our A-graders to do the hard work, not be soft docks. Hopefully the likes of Hewett can help instill it in the group.
 

augie

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Feb 15, 2006
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Both Carlton and Fremantle are at a similar stage of development after beginning their rebuilds at the same time.
The rebuilds of Carlton and Fremantle began in 2016 and both clubs are now looking at taking the next step which is playing finals and contending.

Carlton began their rebuild when they appointed Bolton after Malthouse was signed as coach to try and win a flag and failed, which was in 2015.
Fremantle began their rebuild after they plummeted down the ladder following their minor premiership in 2015, which was followed by Ross Lyon coming out and declaring a rebuild, saying that Fremantle are going to restump, replumb and rewire.

Fremantle have Fyfe and Carlton have Cripps, both of who are similar players and superstars.
I wouldn't be surprised to see both Carlton and Fremantle make the top 8 in 2022, with one of them making the top 4.
History says a team from outside the top 8 always makes the top 4 the following year and both Carlton and Fremantle are primed.

Who has the better prospects?
Carlton given we know they're coming, we can smell what they're cooking with the cream about to rise to the top and they have no passengers.
Or
Fremantle with their restump, replumb and rewire approach to the list which was began by Ross Lyon and with Justin Longmuir coming in to complete what Ross started, the fruits of their labour are ripe for the picking.
How the hell is Cripps like Fyfe? Fyfe is an athletic freak superstar in the best 3 players of the last decade. Cripps is not.
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
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How the hell is Cripps like Fyfe? Fyfe is an athletic freak superstar in the best 3 players of the last decade. Cripps is not.
Maybe, but both haven’t been much chop since 2019. Fyfe has also declined a little athletically.

It’s not a terrible comparison. Fyfe won the Brownlow in 2019, Cripps won the players MVP. Neither have had much impact since.
 

Grand Uncle Horace

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The SOS era left Carlton's list with icing but not enough cake. I reckon their trades this year mark a great leap forward.

Hewett is arguably a more important pick up than Cerra (who is a terrific young player). George is a strong two-way mid. Like Cripps he has had a serious back issue but surgery seems to have been successful. He is not flashy but totally reliable and part of the 'cake' Carlton really needs. Voss will love him.

The Blues by a miracle got something for SPS. To continue with food themes, SPS is one of many on their list that offer all sizzle - no steak. I think Voss will test a list that many over rate and significant changes will be made at the end of 2022.

I reckon the Blues will not make the Finals in 2022 but will finish in the 9-12 range. Importantly they will be competitive against the better teams and pick up a win or two. It will be a crucial year in their development and mark progress in their rebuild.
 

cakewalk06

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Aug 22, 2006
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I hate this entitlement that a team should or shouldn't deserve something, if they make finals its because they deserve to, if they don't then they don't. Football isn't about having the best players in each position, or having the best individuals. It's about building a culture and system that makes up for a players deficiencies and maximises their strengths, which in turn creates a competitive side. Carlton in recent history aren't entitled to anything, so let's see how Voss does in his first season, on paper he's got a good squad but what's on paper doesn't win games at the highest level.

i did not say they were entitled to anything.. i said the list was clearly good enough to make the finals with a decent run with injury.
 

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RonnieRaven

Mature age recruit
Jun 12, 2018
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Maybe, but both haven’t been much chop since 2019. Fyfe has also declined a little athletically.

It’s not a terrible comparison. Fyfe won the Brownlow in 2019, Cripps won the players MVP. Neither have had much impact since.
Except Cripps played every game of 2020 and missed 2 games in 21.
Fyfe missed 3 games last year and 7 this year.
Yes Cripps has played injured but so has Fyfe on top of all the missed footy.
 

Juddernaut08

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 8, 2007
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Except Cripps played every game of 2020 and missed 2 games in 21.
Fyfe missed 3 games last year and 7 this year.
Yes Cripps has played injured but so has Fyfe on top of all the missed footy.
What's your point? Both amongst the best in 2019 and been injured since. Surely you don't penalise Fyfe for being softer than Cripps and sitting out from his injuries?
 

RonnieRaven

Mature age recruit
Jun 12, 2018
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What's your point? Both amongst the best in 2019 and been injured since. Surely you don't penalise Fyfe for being softer than Cripps and sitting out from his injuries?
Not at all
If Fyfe played every game in a season injured or not he would make AA and win bnf still.
They aren’t comparable .
We will agree to disagree always support your players wearing your colours.
 

Juddernaut08

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Not at all
If Fyfe played every game in a season injured or not he would make AA and win bnf still.
They aren’t comparable .
We will agree to disagree always support your players wearing your colours.
What a stupid statement. So if he played through an ACL and couldn't move he'd win Freo's BnF? Give some of the others some credit mate.
 

chunkylover53

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Grand Uncle Horace

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Look! Moving away from the schoolyard stuff, let us just say Fyfe is a Champion of the modern game and Cripps was a terrific champion of Carlton in the old days when SOS was listing his kids.

There is plenty of icing at Carlton but much more cake at Freo.

Through injury, happenstance and probably good coaching Freo possesses a terrific young backline. Lining them up most would only plonk Weitering among the Freo 6 but he would need to do more in a Team Defence to earn his spot.

Freo possesses one of my all time favourite players in Mundy. He and Fyfe lead a great midfield set up. Sure Cerra will be missed but Freo have other youngsters. They have the best Brayshaw by miles and Serong will play 300 games as an A Grader.

Carlton possesses one of the most expensive backlines in the history of the game and Freo one of the cheapest. Carlton went the brown bag route and got over priced and problematic stale sushi in Saad and Williams. Neither will be there in 2 years. Martin, Plowman and the 3rd Rotund Fwd McKFC will be gone as well.

With better list management, Carlton may be a scary prospect in 2024 when the Voss reno is completed and the SOS years finally purged.

Even with a dodgy forward line I reckon Freo will be a scary prospect in 2022 and will make the 8.
 

Juddernaut08

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 8, 2007
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Look! Moving away from the schoolyard stuff...

Through injury, happenstance and probably good coaching Freo possesses a terrific young backline. Lining them up most would only plonk Weitering among the Freo 6 but he would need to do more in a Team Defence to earn his spot.

Carlton went the brown bag route and got over priced and problematic stale sushi in Saad and Williams. Neither will be there in 2 years. Martin, Plowman and the 3rd Rotund Fwd McKFC will be gone as well.
Clowning 101
 

Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

Sir Cripps of Carlton House
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Fair and impartial...
Cripps was a terrific champion of Carlton in the old days when SOS was listing his kids.
Weitering... would need to do more in a Team Defence to earn his spot.
Carlton went the brown bag route and got over priced and problematic stale sushi in Saad and Williams. Neither will be there in 2 years. Martin, Plowman and the 3rd Rotund Fwd McKFC will be gone as well.
With better list management, Carlton may be a scary prospect in 2024 when the Voss reno is completed and the SOS years finally purged.
You've shown a very clear and open hatred towards SOS in the past and it clearly extends to the Blues.
You had a clear agenda with this post, so to try and then claim some kind of fair and impartial assessment is just laughable.
Your posting style in regards to Carlton is simply flaming.
 

gbatman

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Mar 26, 2008
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Both teams have built to a level where they have a really good foundation of young players which gives them time to build upon that. I'm not sure Fremantle are ready to make finals in 2022, I'm not sure Carlton are either although the talent is there IMO to get very close. For both clubs it's about how those young players with potential and ability who haven't broken out yet go.

For Carlton they would see Weitering, Jones, DeKoning, Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, McKay and Curnow as the key players of that team that they will build around next year. There's a long list of young players and peripheral players they will be relying on to step up to become a finals team.

Both sides have a lot to prove and a bit of work to do in regard to recruiting to get things right.
 

La Dispute

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Look! Moving away from the schoolyard stuff, let us just say Fyfe is a Champion of the modern game and Cripps was a terrific champion of Carlton in the old days when SOS was listing his kids.

There is plenty of icing at Carlton but much more cake at Freo.

Through injury, happenstance and probably good coaching Freo possesses a terrific young backline. Lining them up most would only plonk Weitering among the Freo 6 but he would need to do more in a Team Defence to earn his spot.

Freo possesses one of my all time favourite players in Mundy. He and Fyfe lead a great midfield set up. Sure Cerra will be missed but Freo have other youngsters. They have the best Brayshaw by miles and Serong will play 300 games as an A Grader.

Carlton possesses one of the most expensive backlines in the history of the game and Freo one of the cheapest. Carlton went the brown bag route and got over priced and problematic stale sushi in Saad and Williams. Neither will be there in 2 years. Martin, Plowman and the 3rd Rotund Fwd McKFC will be gone as well.

With better list management, Carlton may be a scary prospect in 2024 when the Voss reno is completed and the SOS years finally purged.

Even with a dodgy forward line I reckon Freo will be a scary prospect in 2022 and will make the 8.
I appreciate a decent troll post if it’s subtle and well executed but this is muck.
 

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