Analysis The Rebuilds of Carlton and Fremantle and their future prospects

[La Dispute]

Draft order is the last thing I'd be thinking about if we fell to ninth.

Its the "fire in the belly" stuff that would propel us further, nobody wants to fall just short, look what it did to the Tigers' attitude once they really got on a roll after finishing 9th so mny times.

There’s clearly plenty of fire in the belly in the current squad.

We’ve been our most competitive in over a decade and haven’t made bigger strides up the ladder because we’re just not at that level yet. Not through lack of effort.

 

[LordLucifer]

With 12 wins now for the season, you'd have to be on some pretty heavy stuff to seriously suggest missing finals is the best outcome for Carlton.

Who the feck is saying it is the "best outcome" ??

Do you ever read a full post or just nitpick minor crap out them ??

Oh wait ...... I forgot about your standard reply to any opposition supporter who disagrees with you ........ lost count of the amount of times you've trotted out the "you are nothing but a troll" line.

 

[Jeremias]

Who the feck is saying it is the "best outcome" ??

Do you ever read a full post or just nitpick minor crap out them ??

Oh wait ...... I forgot about your standard reply to any opposition supporter who disagrees with you ........ lost count of the amount of times you've trotted out the "you are nothing but a troll" line.

Opposition supporter?

I always suspected but it's good to finally get confirmation.

 

[LordLucifer]

There’s clearly plenty of fire in the belly in the current squad.

We’ve been our most competitive in over a decade and haven’t made bigger strides up the ladder because we’re just not at that level yet. Not through lack of effort.

I think our players are a bit worn out now due to the heavy injury toll over the year and the ongoing shuffling of players to cover them. It wouldn't surprise to see them drop the last three games (Bris, Melb & Coll), I'll be stoked if they win the lot but we just seem to be getting by from week to week.

 

[LordLucifer]

Opposition supporter?

I always suspected but it's good to finally get confirmation.

Oh jayzuz ...................

Where does your wife go for intelligent conversation ??

 

[Jeremias]

Oh jayzuz ...................

Where does your wife go for intelligent conversation ??

 

[KermitJagger]

Maybe.

Do Richmond win their flags without:
Dusty (pick 3)
Riewoldt (pick 7)
Cotchin (pick 2)

Do Melbourne win their flag without:
Petracca (pick 2)
Oliver (pick 4)
Brayshaw (pick 3)
and to a lesser extend Pickett and Jackson (picks 13 & 3)

In fact, Melbourne did do what you're suggesting, trading pick 2 for Dom Tyson + pick 9 (Christian Salem) - whilst missing out on Josh Kelly. Do you think that was worth it?

Do Hawthorn win their flags without:
Buddy (pick 5)
Roughead (pick 2)
Hodge (pick 1)
Lewis (pick 7)
Rioli (pick 12)
Gibson (pick 7)

Looks like to me history says you need a good chunk of early 1st rounders to build around.

Gibson was Pick 7 in the rookie draft, and 12 isn't an early first rounder.

Yes you need some stars and early first rounders are a good way to get them, but believe it or not most clubs have early first rounders on their list.

Melbourne won the flag last year with 4 top 5 picks, North finished last with 5.

Doesn't prove much, if anything at all.

 

[Arr0w]

Draft order is the last thing I'd be thinking about if we fell to ninth.

Its the "fire in the belly" stuff that would propel us further, nobody wants to fall just short, look what it did to the Tigers' attitude once they really got on a roll after finishing 9th so mny times.

Has nothing to do with where we might finish this year as it's not really an indicator for the future, whether it be 9th or last week of finals, it's about the readiness/maturity of the squad

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Has nothing to do with where we might finish this year as it's not really an indicator for the future, whether it be 9th or last week of finals, it's about the readiness/maturity of the squad

I don't think any sensible or rational Carlton fan should expect us to win the flag this year.

Can we ? Absolutely but I am a firm believer in seasoned finals experience, and teams like Geelong, Melbourne, Brisbane and even Collingwood and Sydney have an significant advantage over us in that dept.

Winning 2 finals is what i would deem as an very successful season for us, given most of our list/players have never played in one before.

 

[Arr0w]

I don't think any sensible or rational Carlton fan should expect us to win the flag this year.

Can we ? Absolutely but I am a firm believer in seasoned finals experience, and teams like Geelong, Melbourne, Brisbane and even Collingwood and Sydney have an significant advantage over us in that dept.

Winning 2 finals is what i would deem as an very successful season for us, given most of our list/players have never played in one before.

Generally sides have apprenticeship of a couple of years in finals before they are a contender, but then you have sides like the Dogs and Hawks that win one before their time

There isn't a playbook as to how is should look, but making finals with a young squad gives you an opportunity now and the next few years

 

[Thrawn]

I think our players are a bit worn out now due to the heavy injury toll over the year and the ongoing shuffling of players to cover them. It wouldn't surprise to see them drop the last three games (Bris, Melb & Coll), I'll be stoked if they win the lot but we just seem to be getting by from week to week.

Worn out?

What are our fitness staff doing, exactly?

Seemed fresh enough in final quarters for the last couple of months.

 

[LordLucifer]

Worn out?

What are our fitness staff doing, exactly?

Seemed fresh enough in final quarters for the last couple of months.

I don't agree Thrawny, earlier in the year our players were more robust and running out games easier.

We are struggling to shake off teams like GWS now who we are expected to defeat with some comfort.

Granted, some of the opposition coaches may have done some research on our game style and tried to quell it but that in itself adds another layer they are having to dealing with.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I don't agree Thrawny, earlier in the year our players were more robust and running out games easier.

We are struggling to shake off teams like GWS now who we are expected to defeat with some comfort.

Granted, some of the opposition coaches may have done some research on our game style and tried to quell it but that in itself adds another layer they are having to dealing with.

Huh?
From the midway point of the 3rd (where you might expect players to be getting tired), we put on 7 goals to 2 (11 scoring shots to 5).
I wouldn't call that struggling to shake them. We struggled to shake them in the 1st half, when we should've been fresher, but part of that was inaccuracy and allowing 2 quick goals near the end of the 2nd quarter.

You also have to bear in mind that without Pitto for the past 12-13 games or whatever it is, we have been getting smashed in the ruck most weeks, which means the mids are working harder to neutralise the opposition's advantage at ruck contests. In that regard, I would agree that TDK in particular is probably struggling at the pointy end of the season with the extra load he's carried. He's gone from averaging around 20 ruck contests a game as 2nd ruck with Pitto in the team, to 54 contests now. Yet he's only gone from averaging around 12 hitouts a game to just over 17 a game. The TDK/SOS ruck combo isn't working, and hasn't for some time, but it's the best option we've had without ruining structures too much. Having Pitto back should change things a fair bit.

 

[Freomaniac]

Maybe.

Do Richmond win their flags without:
Dusty (pick 3)
Riewoldt (pick 7)
Cotchin (pick 2)

Do Melbourne win their flag without:
Petracca (pick 2)
Oliver (pick 4)
Brayshaw (pick 3)
and to a lesser extend Pickett and Jackson (picks 13 & 3)

In fact, Melbourne did do what you're suggesting, trading pick 2 for Dom Tyson + pick 9 (Christian Salem) - whilst missing out on Josh Kelly. Do you think that was worth it?

Do Hawthorn win their flags without:
Buddy (pick 5)
Roughead (pick 2)
Hodge (pick 1)
Lewis (pick 7)
Rioli (pick 12)
Gibson (pick 7)

Looks like to me history says you need a good chunk of early 1st rounders to build around.

Nothing is certain.

You can have 3 top 5 picks in a row and it doesn't automatically translate to a flag

Carlton had early pics from 2005-7.

Demons had early pics from 2007-9.

 

[Arr0w]

I don't agree Thrawny, earlier in the year our players were more robust and running out games easier.

We are struggling to shake off teams like GWS now who we are expected to defeat with some comfort.

Granted, some of the opposition coaches may have done some research on our game style and tried to quell it but that in itself adds another layer they are having to dealing with.

Their last 5 games before we played them. Lions by 40, Port 55, beat Hawks by 22, Pies by 11, Dogs by 20

Think we are thereabouts considering those results

 

[Thrawn]

I don't agree Thrawny, earlier in the year our players were more robust and running out games easier.

Really? We had 6 goal leads on Bulldogs, Hawthorn, Port and Sydney before half-time and after that, those leads got whittled away to 12, 1, 3 and 15 respectively. Contrast that to our wins after the bye against Essendon, Fremantle, West Coast and GWS being 26, 31 and 63 and 36 points respectively. That suggests to me that pre-bye we were struggling to run out games after half time, but post-bye this is where we run away with it. Even with a couple of our losses, against the Tigers and the Pies, we stormed home at the final quarter to almost win the game.

 

[LordLucifer]

Hmmmm ..................

 

[Freomaniac]

I don't think any sensible or rational Carlton fan should expect us to win the flag this year.

Can we ? Absolutely but I am a firm believer in seasoned finals experience, and teams like Geelong, Melbourne, Brisbane and even Collingwood and Sydney have an significant advantage over us in that dept.

Winning 2 finals is what i would deem as an very successful season for us, given most of our list/players have never played in one before.

Your team won't win 2 finals this year .

Blues loss to the crows tonight aside, you would be happy finishing 5th to 8th and get a finals win

 

[Freomaniac]

Draft order is the last thing I'd be thinking about if we fell to ninth.

Its the "fire in the belly" stuff that would propel us further, nobody wants to fall just short, look what it did to the Tigers' attitude once they really got on a roll after finishing 9th so mny times.

Do you need to be reminded how many times Richmond made finals between 1983 to 2012?

 

[LordLucifer]

Your team won't win 2 finals this year .

Blues loss to the crows tonight aside, you would be happy finishing 5th to 8th and get a finals win

We will be lucky to play finals after tonight let alone win a final.

 

[LordLucifer]

Do you need to be reminded how many times Richmond made finals between 1983 to 2012?

And what was their attitude like when they got the finals recently, it was ferocious, they were on a mission to wipe out the ills of the past.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Both clubs have had a terrific season way way beyond expectations.

 

[Schauermann]

Both clubs have had a terrific season way way beyond expectations.

Looks like we finish within my expectation now. Did not expect top 4 or bottom 6. But everything else was/is within my expectations...

Really annoyed by the bad finish to the season, but probably still had a good season considering top 8 spots were pretty open.

Well, unless we miss out which looks únlikely atm...

 

[LordLucifer]

There’s clearly plenty of fire in the belly in the current squad.

We’ve been our most competitive in over a decade and haven’t made bigger strides up the ladder because we’re just not at that level yet. Not through lack of effort.

Where was the fire in the belly last night ???

 

[Freomaniac]

Where was the fire in the belly last night ???

There was no fire in the belly. Carlton's belly was full of beer. LoL

Victoria bitter to be exact LoL