Analysis The Rebuilds of Carlton and Fremantle and their future prospects

Who has the better prospects?


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Fadge

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
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Our offensive and defensive gameplan was muck. The difference is Freo are continuing on with the head coach, while Carlton sacked theirs and many assistants including our defensive line coach.
See, what good clubs do is they back in their head coach, understand what they need to improve based on season/s worth of data, and do what needs to be done to rectify it.

What Carlton have done time and time and time and time and time again is throw the baby out with the bathwater, and start afresh in the hope that all will be resolved because the people causing the problems of yesteryear are no longer there.

But what shortcomings do the newcomers have, and how long will it take to uncover them (let alone resolve them)?
 

Sean_09

Team Captain
Apr 14, 2009
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What's Freo's future midfield like now that Cerra is gone, Fyfe is now 30 and Mundy is about to turn 48? Genuine question as I haven't watched much of them.

Cripps (26)
Walsh (21)
Cerra (21)

Looks like a decent starting 3 for the next little while.
Brayshaw (22 in November)
Serong (20)
Clark (21)
Henry (20)
Young (20)

There's probably our next midfield core with Darcy who's just turned 23. Couple of fliers in Frederick (20) that could develop into a star wing and Brodie (23) that just came across from the Suns that has talent but never had the opportunity to show it. Tucker and Aish probably just role-players at this stage but still capable of developing into something more (touch wood). Throw another mid with Pick 6 or 8 and it looks bloody good for the long term.
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
Jul 14, 2005
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See, what good clubs do is they back in their head coach, understand what they need to improve based on season/s worth of data, and do what needs to be done to rectify it.

What Carlton have done time and time and time and time and time again is throw the baby out with the bathwater, and start afresh in the hope that all will be resolved because the people causing the problems of yesteryear are no longer there.

But what shortcomings do the newcomers have, and how long will it take to uncover them (let alone resolve them)?
So Melbourne should have continued to back Bailey? Or should they have continued to back Neeld?

No use going over old ground. The only coach we shouldn’t have sacked in the past 15 years was Ratten. Malthouse was cooked, Bolton was not a career head coach and Teague was useless and declined both offensively and defensively since he took over.

If Voss also fails we can speculate on the wisdom of removing Teague, but Teague was a rubbish senior coach and his leadership left a lot to be desired.
 

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eastfreo75

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 11, 2011
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So you claim that Freo's youth 'destroys' Carlton's? Let's break this down step by step...



So just because Freo's 1st and 2nd year players have played more games, mean's that Freo's youth destroys Carlton's? Interesting analysis...



Yes, potential, that's all this is. Instead of speculating on future players, Carlton have picked up one of the best young mids in the comp for very cheap.

We invested very heavily into the draft over 2015-18, so for the last 3 years we've managed to snag Martin, Saad, Williams, Cerra and Hewett. No wonder we haven't used as many draft picks!



Neither Walsh nor Cerra are pure inside mids, both will spend significant time on the wings. Stocker will also start in a back pocket, only to rotate through the middle at this stage.



What about 1-6 year players? Or did you want to skip over the fact that McKay, Weitering, Curnow and Silvagni are only 23 years old?


More excuses, or shall we stick with the facts?

Better back line - Carlton
Better midfield - Carlton
Better rucks - Freo
Better forward line - Carlton by the Flemington straight
And we had more wins than the Blues.
 

eastfreo75

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 11, 2011
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Stocker another young mid-defender all Carlton supporters are excited about. Plus, if Dow/Kennedy can perform for a full 22 games what they did in the back end of last year, they could potential become elite mids too. The sky is the limit.
They all can’t play inside mid.
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
Jul 14, 2005
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Brayshaw (22 in November)
Serong (20)
Clark (21)
Henry (20)
Young (20)

There's probably our next midfield core with Darcy who's just turned 23. Couple of fliers in Frederick (20) that could develop into a star wing and Brodie (23) that just came across from the Suns that has talent but never had the opportunity to show it. Tucker and Aish probably just role-players at this stage but still capable of developing into something more (touch wood). Throw another mid with Pick 6 or 8 and it looks bloody good for the long term.
Young is a defender, Ryan is a forward currently. Can’t pigeonhole them into midfield roles until they show some capacity to play there.

I wouldn’t get too many hopes up with Clark or Brodie. Clark is more athlete than footballer and has struggled in a decent system. I could see Freo attempting to repurpose him as a defender, where he actually showed a bit more promise in his first year at the Cats.

Brodie was a cap dump to get another early pick. Great trading, but he has had more than enough time to show his wares in a lowly Gold Coast team - he might have just peaked early as a junior. Matt Kennedy came good in year 6 though, so maybe there’s some hope.

Aish and Tucker are gap fillers who are capped out for output. Freo will likely move past them in a few years.
 

eastfreo75

Brownlow Medallist
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Young is a defender, Ryan is a forward currently. Can’t pigeonhole them into midfield roles until they show some capacity to play there.

I wouldn’t get too many hopes up with Clark or Brodie. Clark is more athlete than footballer and has struggled in a decent system. I could see Freo attempting to repurpose him as a defender, where he actually showed a bit more promise in his first year at the Cats.

Brodie was a cap dump to get another early pick. Great trading, but he has had more than enough time to show his wares in a lowly Gold Coast team - he might have just peaked early as a junior. Matt Kennedy came good in year 6 though, so maybe there’s some hope.

Aish and Tucker are gap fillers who are capped out for output. Freo will likely move past them in a few years.
Mundy was a defender and Fyfe was a forward.
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
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Mundy was a defender and Fyfe was a forward.
And?

Some players have the capacity to play in multiple areas of the ground, some don’t.

Mundy started his career as a rebounding defender because he had transferable skills with his kicking and agility.

Fyfe has completely transformed his body since he was a rangey junior and barely resembles the mid-sized forward he was as an 18 year old.

Young is slow and unless you completely change the way he plays and purpose him as a big bodied inside mid then I’m not sure how he successfully transitions into a midfielder? Freo are best using him as a third tall, where he can use his read and kicking skills to full effect.
 

eastfreo75

Brownlow Medallist
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And?

Some players have the capacity to play in multiple areas of the ground, some don’t.

Mundy started his career as a rebounding defender because he had transferable skills with his kicking and agility.

Fyfe has completely transformed his body since he was a rangey junior and barely resembles the mid-sized forward he was as an 18 year old.

Young is slow and unless you completely change the way he plays and purpose him as a big bodied inside mid then I’m not sure how he successfully transitions into a midfielder? Freo are best using him as a third tall, where he can use his read and kicking skills to full effect.
Mundy is slow.
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
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Mundy is slow.
Mundy is agile. He can change direction very quickly, and has rare composure in tight spaces.

Sam Mitchell was also glacial, but killed it for a season or two at half back for the same reason.

Very few players have the same capabilities.
 

eastfreo75

Brownlow Medallist
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I literally addressed that exact topic, in the post right above yours, quoting you, which you completely diverged away from with a different irrelevant comment...
Cripps, Cerra and Walsh start in the middle.

Kennedy, Kemp, Philp, Stocker, Settlefield and Dow all can’t be in the same team. Their is not enough room in the midfield.

Philp could be played on a wing, Kemp could play half back but the rest suck unless they play in the middle.
 

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eastfreo75

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 11, 2011
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Mundy is agile. He can change direction very quickly, and has rare composure in tight spaces.

Sam Mitchell was also glacial, but killed it for a season or two at half back for the same reason.

Very few players have the same capabilities.

Have a read about his agility testing.
 

La Dispute

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Have a read about his agility testing.
Big difference weaving through sticks in comparison to responding to opponents and having to adapt to in real time.

Mundy showed that kind of awareness from the get go. I don’t we’ve seen anywhere near the same capacity with Young yet.
 

Ash24

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Nov 3, 2020
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Cripps, Cerra and Walsh start in the middle.

Kennedy, Kemp, Philp, Stocker, Settlefield and Dow all can’t be in the same team. Their is not enough room in the midfield.

Philp could be played on a wing, Kemp could play half back but the rest suck unless they play in the middle.
Kemp is coming off an ACL and syndesmosis, he will be playing in defence next year. Similar with Stocker, he will only be rotating through the midfield. Setterfield isn't best 22. Walsh and Cerra play about 50/50 each on a wing.

That way you can fit in 6 mids to the team - Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett, Kennedy, Dow. Replace one of Kennedy/Dow if you want to play Stocker on-ball.
 

eastfreo75

Brownlow Medallist
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Kemp is coming off an ACL and syndesmosis, he will be playing in defence next year. Similar with Stocker, he will only be rotating through the midfield. Setterfield isn't best 22. Walsh and Cerra play about 50/50 each on a wing.

That way you can fit in 6 mids to the team - Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett, Kennedy, Dow. Replace one of Kennedy/Dow if you want to play Stocker on-ball.
Walsh is an inside gun and will win a Brownlow, why would you play him on a wing?
 

Ash24

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Walsh is an inside gun and will win a Brownlow, why would you play him on a wing?
You rotate him on a wing for multiple reasons - Gives him a rest of sorts, harder to tag, allows other an opportunity in the middle/more versatility.

Bont and Trac could win a Brownlow just like Dusty did by rotating through the forward line. Why can't Walsh do it through a wing?
 

eastfreo75

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 11, 2011
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Big difference weaving through sticks in comparison to responding to opponents and having to adapt to in real time.

Mundy showed that kind of awareness from the get go. I don’t we’ve seen anywhere near the same capacity with Young yet.
I’ve it at times.

Mundy didn’t show much it on half back.
 

Sean_09

Team Captain
Apr 14, 2009
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Young is a defender, Ryan is a forward currently. Can’t pigeonhole them into midfield roles until they show some capacity to play there.

I wouldn’t get too many hopes up with Clark or Brodie.
Ryan? Assuming Henry I guess. Being transitioned to HFF/Wing as his physically develops. Not sure where you’re seeing Young as slow - built similar to Mundy who’s been a gun mid since his mid 20’s.

Clark’s one that has been horrifically mismanaged by Geelong. Exciting talent and will be a fantastic addition on the wing or HBF and pretty hard call on Brodie. Stuck behind Swallow, Anderson, Rowell & Miller playing the same role. Had a decent run then got hurt and has been waiting for another shot.
 

WillHayward

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2018
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With Luke Ryan in the side, frankly I can't see Freo losing a match.

Expect them to go undefeated and secure their first ever flag. But not their last.

Should go back to back with Luke Ryan going back to back Norm Smiths.
 

Demons09

Premiership Player
Jan 12, 2009
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With Luke Ryan in the side, frankly I can't see Freo losing a match.

Expect them to go undefeated and secure their first ever flag. But not their last.

Should go back to back with Luke Ryan going back to back Norm Smiths.
You should stick with league because you know fu** all about AFL.
 

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